<html><body><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">Good evening all,</div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;"><br></div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">I tend to stand with Theo here - forcing (which this is) a registrar to break potential laws is <strong>unacceptable</strong> and will lead to prosecution of registrar, or worse, ICANN suspension and termination of the registrar - namely throwing the registrar under a bus. </div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;"><br></div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">The "you have to complete migration by X date", has so many "what if's" between now and that "X" date because law keeps changing. I do not see how we as an IRT can jeopardise a registrants rights.</div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;"><br></div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">I think Theo had a very good idea, Verisign running a Thin and Thick whois. Its not hard for them to achieve as simply if contacts exist show them at the whois.verisign-grs.com layer, if not, like now, they simply push it onto the registrars (in our case) whois.netearthone.com.</div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;"><br></div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">Yes Theo is completely correct in that the registrar has operating costs here, which they already have, and should/when RDAP comes into play potentially more costs, but these costs are easier to swallow than the cost of a lawsuit and fine from a local DPA which could run in $100,000's or millions of dollars.</div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;"><br></div><div style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">ICANN also needs to consider their side of the table, should a registrar be terminated through this policy for not providing data to Verisign, will ICANN indemnify the gaining registrar of the data against any legal action from a DPA because of the migration of data to THICK - or - should ICANN simply indemnify the registrar now as it is forcing registrars through policy to break their local laws ?</div></div><div><br></div><div data-marker="__SIG_PRE__">Kind regards,<br><br>Chris</div><br><hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker="__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"theo geurts" <gtheo@xs4all.nl><br><b>To: </b>gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, 21 January, 2017 19:30:06<br><b>Subject: </b>[Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] Additional triggers and privacy law<br></div><br><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">Hello all,<br><br>I am not in favor in creating a "trigger" based on the data retention <br>waiver. First of all, that process was horrible and costly, and I can <br>only conclude that there still Registrars out there that started in <br>2013, still not have obtained a waiver in 2017.<br><br>We as an IRT concluded that it is up to the Registrars own due diligence <br>to determine if there is an issue with privacy laws.<br>The rationale behind that is/was simple:<br>2011, 76 countries having data privacy laws.<br>2016, 109 countries having privacy laws.<br>2017, 35 more countries are currently drafting privacy laws.<br><br>As mentioned before this is a moving target and not up to us to address.<br><br>That being said, the current solution when it comes to the migration and <br>issues with privacy law is not a solution. I appreciate the fact that <br>Verisign noted it during the comment period, but as several Registrars <br>has mentioned in the past, it is not a good solution.<br><br>After the latest GNSO meeting I hoped to see some progress on the WHOIS <br>IAG matter, but frankly, with the current speed, I am afraid that the <br>WHOIS IAG will be overtaken by stationary objects.<br><br>That either means there is a problem or there is not, and I would like <br>to get some input from the IRT on it.<br><br>If there is no problem, please provide me with some info on why it is <br>not an issue.<br><br>If it is an issue then how do we address it? We can't tell Registrars <br>you must migrate WHOIS data before X date and if there is a problem then <br>just break the law.<br>We also cannot create a situation that if a Registrar can not migrate <br>the data, run into compliance issues that might end up in <br>de-accreditation of that Registrar, I think we all agree that is just <br>plain silly and the wrong message.<br><br>My solution here would be, and it is not great, to be honest, that until <br>the matter can be resolved the Registry operator supports both thin and <br>thick whois registrations and shall carry the burden for both systems.<br>The Registrar might also carry a burden here. As they might come into a <br>situation, they are forced to implement RDAP at some point as the rest <br>of the world moves to RDAP. I already see ccTLDs Registries announce <br>RDAP, go figure ;)<br><br>Would the above solve the issue? And yes I am aware that the above <br>language cannot be added to the draft in its current state, but I am <br>sure staff can come up with something workable here.<br><br>If the whole idea is plain silly, feel free to kick me under the table <br>here.<br><br>Theo<br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list<br>Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org<br>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt<br></div></div></body></html>