[gnso-improvem-impl-sc] Re: Request to the SCI - Vote switching

Amr Elsadr aelsadr at egyptig.org
Tue Mar 10 10:43:42 UTC 2015 

Hi,

I haven’t commented on this thread, mainly because I thought the discussion was headed in an agreeable direction.

I think Martin has raised an interesting point, and hope this issue doesn’t become a problem in the near or distant future. However, as noted by others, I don’t see this as an SCI issue. Since this isn’t a policy issue, I honestly don’t see this as something necessarily being within the scope of the GNSO Council either. Having said that, I don’t think it would be harmful for the council to discuss the issue. Ideally, this would have been picked up during the GNSO review, but should be individually tackled by the GNSO’s SGs/Cs.

Isn’t the Board SIC involved in the process of SG/C charter revisions as well? I tried searching for a process description, but couldn’t find one. May be helpful to reference that in any response we send Martin, if that is indeed the case. I seem to remember them being involved in the NCSG charter revision.

Thanks.

Amr

On Mar 9, 2015, at 9:11 PM, Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org> wrote:

> Dear Angie and everyone,
> 
> Thanks very much for the thoughtful comments – I think we are both saying very similar things! Essentially, the BC (like all other GNSO SG/Cs) defines its own charter and scope, which is one reason why (as well as more general reasons having to do with the fundamental community consensus-based bottom-up ICANN structure) staff suggested that this is an issue best determined by the BC itself. This can include all the considerations mentioned by Angie, and the BC may also decide it wishes to discuss the question with other GNSO SG/Cs. As we also noted, to the extent that a substantial or discrete part the GNSO community then believes a more uniform or coherent approach is needed, either the BC or another GNSO SG/C can bring it up as part of the ongoing GNSO Review - a point that was noted by Avri as something that can be done through each SG/C’s representatives on the GNSO Working Party, including the BC's. 
> 
> Anne has requested that staff draft a response to Martin and the BC, which we propose to do along these lines. Although we do not think this is necessarily the type of matter that the SCI Charter was intended to cover, nonetheless it may be helpful to see if this is a shared SCI view. Please reply therefore if you have an objection to the proposed approach. If none is received by 23:59 UTC on Wednesday 11 March, we will proceed as noted herein.
> 
> Thanks and cheers
> Mary
> 
> Mary Wong
> Senior Policy Director
> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
> Telephone: +1 603 574 4892
> Email: mary.wong at icann.org
> 
> 
> 
> From: Angie Graves <angie at webgroup.com>
> Date: Monday, March 9, 2015 at 11:52
> To: Anne <AAikman at lrrlaw.com>, Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org>, "<gnso-improvem-impl-sc at icann.org>" <gnso-improvem-impl-sc at icann.org>
> Cc: Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund at icann.org>, Ron Andruff <randruff at rnapartners.com>
> Subject: Fwd: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
> 
>> Dear Anne, Mary and SCI,
>> 
>> I am writing to share my thoughts with the SCI as a member of both the BC and the SCI.  If any of my thoughts expressed below conflict with Mary Wong's pending response, I defer to her.
>> 
>> I am inclined to think that I am speaking for more than just myself when I say that the SCI recognizes, too, the importance of this issue Martin has raised, and that we would like to be able to provide answers and resolution to the potential for abuse of voting rights.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, the SCI's charter directs us to consider GNSO Council processes and procedures and Working Group guidelines that have been identified either by the GNSO Council or a group chartered by the GNSO Council as needing discussion (e.g. a WG).  As the Business Constituency is one of the Constituencies within the Commercial Stakeholder Group (CSG) referred to in Article X.5 of the ICANN bylaws, and as the BC's charter review is not at the request of the GNSO Council, Martin's request lies outside of the SCI's scope.
>> 
>> I am available to talk about this issue with Martin and/or with the BC Charter Review Drafting Team, and maybe determine together the optimal way forward.  My suggestion is for the SCI to recommend that Martin raise this issue first inside the BC following the Drafting Team's completion of its first order of business--the charter review.  In seeking BC consensus on  the issue, requests for outside review will be thoroughly considered by the constituency, ideas for mitigation will be collected, and the best path forward with the issue will be determined and agreed upon by the BC membership.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Angie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: <martinsutton at hsbc.com>
>> Date: Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:26 AM
>> Subject: RE: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>> To: "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman at lrrlaw.com>
>> Cc: Angie Graves <angie at webgroup.com>, "<gnso-improvem-impl-sc at icann.org>" <gnso-improvem-impl-sc at icann.org>, Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund at icann.org>, Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org>, Ron Andruff <randruff at rnapartners.com>
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Anne, 
>> 
>> Thank you for your helpful response and suggestion - all noted.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Martin 
>> Martin C SUTTON 
>> Manager, Group Fraud Risk & Intelligence 
>> Global Security & Fraud Risk
>> Level 8,1 Canada Square,Canary Wharf,London,E14 5AB,United Kingdom
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> Phone	+44 (0)207 991 8074
>> Mobile	+44 (0)777 4556680
>> Email	martinsutton at hsbc.com
>> Website	www.hsbc.com
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Protect our environment - please only print this if you have to!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:        "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman at lrrlaw.com>
>> To:        Martin C SUTTON/HGHQ/HSBC at HSBC
>> Cc:        'Mary Wong' <mary.wong at icann.org>, Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund at icann.org>, "<gnso-improvem-impl-sc at icann.org>"        <gnso-improvem-impl-sc at icann.org>, 'Ron Andruff' <randruff at rnapartners.com>, 'Angie Graves' <angie at webgroup.com>
>> Date:        07/03/2015 22:20
>> Subject:        RE: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Martin, 
>> Although SCI has not met, there has been some discussion on the list regarding your request on behalf of the BC Charter subteam.  
>>   
>> Staff (Mary Wong) is drafting a response to your request for SCI and will be circulating that response to SCI members for purposes of developing a consensus on the recommended approach for BC in this fact situation.  At present we have  no calls scheduled.  If SCI members are not in agreement with the approach described in the draft response that staff is preparing, we will likely need to schedule a call to discuss in more detail than achieved to date on the list.  In this regard, you may want to alert and brief the BC members of SCI as to this particular issue since, to my knowledge, neither one of the BC SCI appointees has commented in the discussion of this matter on the SCI list.
>> Thank you, 
>> Anne 
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>  
>> 
>> <ATT00001.gif> 	Anne E. Aikman-Scalese, Of Counsel
>> Lewis Roca Rothgerber LLP |
>> One South Church Avenue Suite 700 | Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611
>> (T) 520.629.4428 | (F) 520.879.4725
>> AAikman at LRRLaw.com | www.LRRLaw.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>   
>> From: martinsutton at hsbc.com [mailto:martinsutton at hsbc.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 9:17 AM
>> To: Aikman-Scalese, Anne
>> Subject: Re: Request to the SCI - Vote switching 
>>   
>> Dear Anne, 
>> 
>> As a follow-up, could you please let me know when the SCI is next due to meet/discuss the item raised below?  I just want to manage expectations with the BC Charter group, so an indicative time would be helpful. 
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Martin 
>> Martin C SUTTON 
>> Manager, Group Fraud Risk & Intelligence 
>> Global Security & Fraud Risk
>> Level 8,1 Canada Square,Canary Wharf,London,E14 5AB,United Kingdom
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> Phone	+44 (0)207 991 8074
>> Mobile	+44 (0)777 4556680
>> Email	martinsutton at hsbc.com
>> Website	www.hsbc.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Protect our environment - please only print this if you have to!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:        Martin C SUTTON/HGHQ/HSBC
>> To:        "Anne Aikman-Scalese" <AAikman at LRRLaw.com>
>> Date:        26/02/2015 23:21
>> Subject:        Re: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you Anne, much appreciated. 
>> 
>> Martin Sutton
>> Manager, Group Fraud Risk and Intelligence
>> Ph:  ++44 (0)20 7991 8074
>> Mob:  ++44 (0)777 4556680
>> Sent from my BlackBerry
>> 
>> *********************************
>> 
>> HSBC Holdings plc
>> Registered Office: 1 Canada Square, London E14 5AB, United Kingdom
>> Registered in England number 617987
>> 
>> *********************************
>> 
>>   From: "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" [AAikman at lrrlaw.com]
>> Sent: 26/02/2015 20:31 GMT
>> To: Martin C SUTTON
>> Subject: RE: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>> 
>> Thanks Martin. I will bring this before SCI.
>> Anne 
>>  
>> 
>> <ATT00002.gif> 	Anne E. Aikman-Scalese, Of Counsel
>> Lewis Roca Rothgerber LLP |
>> One South Church Avenue Suite 700 | Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611
>> (T) 520.629.4428 | (F) 520.879.4725
>> AAikman at LRRLaw.com | www.LRRLaw.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> From: martinsutton at hsbc.com [mailto:martinsutton at hsbc.com] 
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 12:30 PM
>> To: Aikman-Scalese, Anne
>> Subject: Request to the SCI - Vote switching
>>  
>> Dear Anne, 
>> 
>> I am a member of the Business Constituency and currently working with the BC Charter Review team.  During our recent discussions, we identified a potential issue that may affect GNSO Stakeholder Groups (SGs) and Constituencies (Cs) which may warrant the attention of the SCI, which I understand you currently chair.
>> 
>> With the introduction of New gTLDs, an increasing number of organisations now meet the criteria of membership within multiple groups, even across the contracting and non-contracting parties divide.  The point in question is in relation to the ability for a member of multiple SGs and Cs to regularly switch their voting rights between these groups in a tactical manner, so as to apply votes for elections/decisions where they may have concerns with lack of representation within a specific group, at a specific time. Whilst they may only vote in one of the SGs or Cs, there is no restriction as to when and how frequently they may switch their voting power between these groups.  This could be too flexible and potentially allow the system to be exploited.
>> 
>> I am pleased to say that there is no evidence that this is occurring but as new members continue to increase, it seems sensible to consider preventative measures be put in place to protect the GNSO for the future.  As an example, a multi-member organisation could be obliged to commit  holding it's voting rights within one group for a minimum term of 12 months before switching to another group.  Of course, this would need to be uniform across all of the SGs and Cs, hence, we think it is appropriate to raise this issue with the SCI for consideration.
>> 
>> I would be happy to discuss further and interested to know if you feel this would be appropriate and worthwhile for the SCI to assess.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Martin 
>> Martin C SUTTON 
>> Manager, Group Fraud Risk & Intelligence 
>> Global Security & Fraud Risk
>> Level 8,1 Canada Square,Canary Wharf,London,E14 5AB,United Kingdom
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>  
>> 
>> Phone	+44 (0)207 991 8074
>> Mobile	+44 (0)777 4556680
>> Email	martinsutton at hsbc.com
>> Website	www.hsbc.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> Protect our environment - please only print this if you have to!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
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>> HSBC Holdings plc
>> Registered Office: 8 Canada Square, London E14 5HQ, United Kingdom
>> Registered in England number 617987
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>> -----------------------------------------
>> SAVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT!
>> 
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>> It may also be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,
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> <ATT00001.gif><ATT00002.gif>

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