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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Mike,<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B727DEF6-B71B-4F8B-AA69-8D31AE339ABE@haven2.com"
type="cite">
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i'm trying to remedy the situation where a registrar is either in
violation of the IRTP themselves (refusing to allow the registrant
to transfer out) or is presumptively denying the registrant due
process in a dispute between registrars. this was recognized as
an oversight in the policy back in the misty past when this series
of IRTP PDPs was launched.</blockquote>
In the first case, the right venue for the registrant is ICANN
compliance, where he can lodge a complaint against his registrar. <br>
In the second case, I still not see that denying a registrant access
to a process not designed for him denies him due process. I do not
see that this process is "due" to registrants.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B727DEF6-B71B-4F8B-AA69-8D31AE339ABE@haven2.com"
type="cite">
<div>i don't care how this happens. registrars are probably in
the best position to figure out the best way to get this done
and i'm happy to leave that discussion up to them. i like
James' "put pressure on Registrars to comply" approach since
that seems like a lighter/simpler one but i can live with
anything that fixes that problem. what i'm not keen on the idea
of leaving registrants in their current situation where these
decisions get made "for them" by registrars with no recourse for
trapped registrants except worldwide courts.</div>
</blockquote>
A registrant can always take recourse with ICANN compliance if his
registrar violates its obligations under the RAA (which includes all
consensus policies):<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/complaints/transfer">http://www.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/complaints/transfer</a><br>
<br>
Remember, were are purely talking process here, and registrar
process violations are a compliance matter. Compliance action will
force the violating registrar to fix the breach, therefore resolving
the registrants issue.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Volker <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B727DEF6-B71B-4F8B-AA69-8D31AE339ABE@haven2.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Dec 3, 2013, at 9:51 AM, Volker Greimann <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Mike,<br>
<br>
you are assuming that registrants should be
beneficiaries of the TDRP. They are not. Therefore a
registrar not initiating a TDRP is not blocking the
registrants access as they do not have such an access in
the first place. <br>
<br>
If you want to give the registrant a way to force a
registrar to initiate a proceeding against another
registrar, that is another story, but that way needs to
include an obligation of the registrant to pay the costs
and a right of a registrar to charge for this service
(to cover the work needed to handle the process).<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:45A99A3C-7282-4C55-9FE6-55CD27BB5F0E@haven2.com"
type="cite">
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charset=ISO-8859-1">
i think the key distinction i want to draw is with your
sentence "give registrants access to" the TDRP. that's
not the intent. the intent is to ensure that
registrants are not blocked from that process by their
registrar. the hope here is to provide an appeal
mechanism in those cases where registrar and registrant
disagree on whether a TDRP is warranted. but i'm fine
setting the bar for that appeal pretty high.
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Dec 2, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Volker Greimann
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I still feel that
giving registrants access to the TDRP process
dilutes its purpose as an inter-registrar
dispute process designed to deal with process
violations and will turn it into a transfer
dispute process between registrants, dragging
registrars and registries into a civil
conflict between two parties. This will result
in increased costs and work for contracted
parties.<br>
<br>
If a registrar is violating transfer
processes, there will be sufficient incentive
for affected registrars to call them out and
if necessary invoke the current process.<br>
<br>
What we need to look at instead is if creating
an alternate process between registrant and
former registrant regarding the ownership of a
domain name makes sense. <br>
<br>
I am also a big fan of the line "He who wants
to hear the music should pay for the band!",
i.e. if a registrant wants a process to be
invoked, he should be prepared to pony up the
fees, just as with the UDRP. Adding a "loser
pays" clause makes sense to me, but in that
case it will remain the risk of the
complainant that the respondent cannot pay/is
unreachable/etc...<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:60AF9317-EEBB-4BE5-A4BB-2B8040A754E5@haven2.com"
type="cite">
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<p>Provide the ability for the registrant to
trigger the TDRP process in cases when
they disagree with their registrar over an
IRTP issue </p>
<ul>
<li>
<p>In general, registrars initiate TDRP
when they can't resolve matters
between themselves </p>
<p>In the case of disagreement between
registrar and registrant as to whether
to initiate a TDRP, provide a path for
the registrant to take the issue to
Compliance </p>
<p>Build minimum documentation
requirements for registrants into the
policy as a filter to prevent
frivolous filings </p>
<p>If Compliance agrees with registrant,
TDRP proceeds as normal, with fees
paid by registrars, as normal </p>
<p>If Compliance disagrees with
registrant, that's it -- it's off to
court if the registrant wants to
proceed.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</li>
</ul>
<span style="font-family: Helvetica;
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651-647-6109, FAX: 866-280-2356, WEB: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.haven2.com/">www.haven2.com</a>,
HANDLE: OConnorStP (ID for Twitter,
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<br>
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net/">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.brandshelter.com/">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu/">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net/">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
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This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
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FAX: 866-280-2356, WEB: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net/">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.brandshelter.com/">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu/">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net/">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.brandshelter.com/">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu/">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
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</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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