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<div><font face="Calibri">Dear All, </font></div>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Please find the attendance and recording of the call attached to this email and the AC Chat below for the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 3 - String Contention, Objections & Disputes held on Wednesday, 20
December 2016 at 20:00 UTC. <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gnso-2Dnew-2Dgtld-2Dsubsequent-2D16may16-2Den.mp3&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=Zx5BSTxHyuQ1k0kWFuUD3QLERQ-qmyNLKD4EitZvXhg&s=5YGOaZMVSGtLFO1rpoTUBRqbLbY_W6brFs17LcTg700&e=" style="color: purple;"><span style="color: windowtext;"><br>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">The recordings of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=Zx5BSTxHyuQ1k0kWFuUD3QLERQ-qmyNLKD4EitZvXhg&s=fiTp8y1l5mm5sFzpecZ7zxKgmETN4SeZxhzYTsQIgis&e=" target="_blank" style="color: purple;">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar</a></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Mailing list archives: <a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt2" style="color: purple;"><span style="color: rgb(59, 115, 175); background-color: white;"></a><a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt3">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt3</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Wiki page: <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/GwSbAw">https://community.icann.org/x/GwSbAw</a> </p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Nathalie<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><b><u>Adobe Connect chat transcript </u></b><b><u>for 20 December 2016</u></b></p>
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<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Nathalie Peregrine:Welcome to the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 3 – String Contention, Objections & Disputes call onthe 20th December 2016 at 21:00 UTC</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Nathalie Peregrine:Meeting Page: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_OJPDAw&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=YLm9q9DcTPDAKk9WkgjTF3B-AuR3i7BTm4vDIgAZF_k&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_OJPDAw&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=YLm9q9DcTPDAKk9WkgjTF3B-AuR3i7BTm4vDIgAZF_k&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady:Avri & Cheryl, I hope you enjoyed your 23 free minutes today. I did. :)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> avri doria:Paul did not know what to do with my time.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady:Happy to walk through it. It is meant only to spark discussion - :)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):paul</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):/Avri </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Karen Day:silence will be taken as agreement :)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):I am baby sitting so I was kinda occupied ;-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Gg Levine (NABP):"Universally" seems unrealistic as an alternative to "generally."</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):thx Alan </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kiran Malancharuvil:Robin, can you explain more about why ALAC would have standing? and why icann said no?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Karen Day:+1 Gg - i</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Karen Day:universal isn't realistic so is there anything better than generally?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Gg Levine (NABP):Sorry, I don't have a better suggestion than generally.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):access to funding for an objection </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Karen Day:Gg - Me either so absent anyone coming up with one, looks to me like "generally" is what we'll need to stick with.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:Maybe the intent was to allow ALAC to object only where they had standing.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Annebeth Lange, ccNSO:Good points from Alan here. ALAC is representing the users, even if it is difficult to prove.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):that was the rationale for being funded to object Yes Annabeth </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Karen Day:Jeff posted an opinion to the list, perhaps he can speak to it when he joins the call.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:Apologies if this has already been asked, but were there times when ALAC filed an objection on a string that the I.O. didn't object to?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kiran Malancharuvil:I'm okay with standing for alac if the objection process requires alac to justify why this is on behalf of users </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> avri doria:lots of things may not have appeared clear to the panelists all along the way.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> avri doria:by default however, it will stand as it is.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:Did ALAC analyze the standing issue before filing the objections? Or was it just assumed that there would be standing?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:disconnected</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:Maybe we need a Co-Dependent Objector....</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Can I please have a dialout to +1 514 487 9001</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Karen Day:@Greg - we're looking at doing deeper research in the objections themselves and if we get it lined up we will definately add this question as one to include.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:@Avri- thanks. Good things to think about.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kiran Malancharuvil:how would you ever solve for that?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kiran Malancharuvil:sorry, not on audio</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:Isn't the WHO an end user? Can't an end user ask the ALAC for help? I guess I don't see the gaming.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kiran Malancharuvil:agree</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> avri doria:i think the notion of gaming and esepcially accusations of gaming are pernitious and should be avoided as much as possible.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):agree </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> avri doria:judging the intentionality of others is really hard.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Annebeth Lange, ccNSO:@Avri - agree</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:WHO is an IGO and thus aligned more with the GAC, but I suppose we could also call them an end-user.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Note that Jeff made it clear he was taking off his chair hat and speaking with relation to one of the applicants. (If I remember correctly).</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:We did not class WHO as an end user, but as a group that alerted us to an end-user issue.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kurt Pritz:(1) I found 23 Limited Public Interest Objections - all seem bona fide except of course, we cannot tell with the Independent Objector or ALAC; (2) Everyone has standing to file a Limited Public Interest
Objection, ALAC file one and withdrew it (although I do not know why) so why was ALAC denied standing?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kiran Malancharuvil 2:I honestly don't understand how we can call anything gaming. This is an open process. Organizations have every right to engage in the process</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kiran Malancharuvil 2:I think there's a tendency at ICANN to devalue certain voices (corporations, organizations, etc.) and I think that's dangerous. Multi-stakeholder is multi-stakeholder</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Annebeth Lange, ccNSO:For me, gaming is something very different from what we are talking about now. I must be allowed to make a stakeholdergroup aware of a problem.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:@Annebeth - agree. "Gaming" is something sinister. End Users making ALAC aware of a concern is not.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Phil Buckingham:+1 Annabeth. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Steve Chan:The resources that Robin has and will be referencing are available on the WIki here: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_Vz2AAw&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=jla-8ej_g29oDcdLP274quO-0lehuCdPg14kAXE6pl0&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_Vz2AAw&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=jla-8ej_g29oDcdLP274quO-0lehuCdPg14kAXE6pl0&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kurt Pritz:Are there any decisions where we thought the panel incorrectly found for the applicant?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kurt Pritz:evidently not working</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Nathalie Peregrine:@ Kurt, I can dial out to you if you prefer</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kurt Pritz:i'll try later</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:Bad faith can only be inferred from the facts - unless a party admits to it - so we need more inference points.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> avri doria:i think trying to decide that a decsion of a panel was right or wrong is tough since there are two sides, at least, to each of the cases. we can mre look for places where different panels seemed to decide
similar cases in a contradictory manner.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kurt Pirtz:Abuse or infringement is generally demonstrated through use and there is no "use" at the application stage. (As Paul said.) But we should take care not to make a process that is more easily winnable just
to balance out the results. There should be real infringement before an application is defined. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:I think abuse can be shown without use as can dilution; infringement is based on use though.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kurt Pirtz:Has the delegation of .coach or .express resulted in abuse?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__purses.coach_&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=XL_iWXVNJiaMgzJ7G5bk7ynjU_AkiTosvLVUTIKP4VE&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__purses.coach_&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=XL_iWXVNJiaMgzJ7G5bk7ynjU_AkiTosvLVUTIKP4VE&e=</a> leads
to PPC ads, so yes. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:@Robin, we should be careful with throwing around terms like "generic."</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kurt Pirtz:Then the RPM can be used with that specific example for purse.coach but all legitimate uses of a .coach name should not be barred</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Nathaniel Edwards:Yes, but because a trademark is a dictionary term does not mean that it is not an arbitrary or fanciful trademark entitled to broad protection. GOOGLE had a dictionary meaning before it was a trademark.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:wallets.coach and handbags.coach do the same. Feh.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:Dictionary entry does not = generic.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Rubens Kuhl:Google did not. Googol did. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Rubens is right.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:I am happy to walk through my strawman now</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Annebeth Lange, ccNSO:A trademark can be degenerated, and a generic name can be a trademark, so we must be careful here</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Rubens Kuhl:What a Googol is: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Googol&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=9t4JS2txguH5xd2GmQetSE4wLQ08WYN8JkzH6jUkYW4&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Googol&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=9t4JS2txguH5xd2GmQetSE4wLQ08WYN8JkzH6jUkYW4&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:10 ^ 100</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Invented by mathematician Edward Kasner's newpgew as a name for a REALLY big number.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Have to leave now. Good meeting.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:Looks like all of those (bags.coach, too) are owned by Coach. Apparently registered defensively. Coincidence or business plan?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> avri doria:Again, indicating intentions is risky.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:After 7 or 8 tries (no football.coach, basketball, baseball, college, etc.) I foudna legitimate use of coach! <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.fitness.coach_&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=uIaFjuYDS69jDtOheOEDOL1YZoGhPoMqEFvnhPA2KDk&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.fitness.coach_&d=DgIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=TfkF3s7Ox5CiQdEY_OQOHiomC5Bq8BSvdcr2FZRZHHY&s=uIaFjuYDS69jDtOheOEDOL1YZoGhPoMqEFvnhPA2KDk&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:Googol is not Google. But under a trademark infringement analysis, would probably be barred if used on related goods or services.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Robin Gross:We are over time, so need to close up now, folks.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:A trademark by definition is not a generic name. And I've never heard the term "degenerated" applied to a trademark; perhaps something's been lost in translation.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):great work Paul good food for thought... I am sorry but I have to leave now for my NEXT ICANN call... Seasons Greetings to you all... Bye for now </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:Time for the orchestra to start playing....</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Annebeth Lange, ccNSO:Very good work, Paul</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul McGrady 2:Sorry for going over all!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Annebeth Lange, ccNSO:Happy holidays everyone. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Karen Day:Thanks everyone for your contributions today! Happy Holidays!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Greg Shatan:Happy Holidays!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Rubens Kuhl:Happy Holidays!</div>
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