[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Follow up on comment in chat during WT5 meeting of 6 June

Emily Barabas emily.barabas at icann.org
Wed Jun 13 14:15:36 UTC 2018


Dear Nick,

The discussion of "in any language" text was initially part of the discussion on short and long form country and territory names and is included in the Working Document on page 19. Staff has added a reference on page 24 stating that similar questions apply to the text "in any language" for capital city names.

Kind regards,
Emily

On 13/06/2018, 15:46, "Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 on behalf of Nick Wenban-Smith" <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Nick.Wenban-Smith at nominet.uk> wrote:

    Following on from this morning's very constructive call and Jorge's comment below, I had two further thoughts:
    
    1.	With capital cities I did say it before but I didn't see it in the working doc, do we really need to protect every language worldwide?
    2.	Related to 1, as part of implementation in the next round, I wondered whether there could be an online tool for prospective applicants into which they could put the string they were thinking of applying for. This would flag up whether the string was eligible for delegation (e.g. last round you couldn't apply for 'ICANN' etc which I imagine will still be the case), whether there were geo issues which would need further action (e.g. non-objection letter). I don't expect this to be definitive because it wouldn't cover all string similarity issues or public interest/ morals questions but it would be a start. The progress in good online tools when searching for new possible trade mark options or company names has really come on since 2012 and it would be good to leverage that. 
    
    It was point 2 which made me wonder how even a well-informed prospective applicant could know the translation of every capital city worldwide into every language and if it couldn't easily be checked for then it doesn't seem like a very fair provision.
    
    Just a couple of thoughts whilst on the train to London!
    
    Cheers
    Nick  
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org> On Behalf Of Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch
    Sent: 08 June 2018 20:49
    To: maureen.hilyard at gmail.com; mmoll at ca.inter.net
    Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org
    Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Follow up on comment in chat during WT5 meeting of 6 June
    
    Dear all
    As I mentioned in the last call I feel it is best to respect subsidiarity and hence defer to local laws and policies on what is a city.
    Each country has its own definitions - hence it would be arbitrary trying to impose one-size-fits-all from here.
    The advisory panel suggested and/or a database linking to the aprox. 195 definitions and sets of city-lists would probably not be too difficult to be established and would provide applicants with a heightened level of certainty.
    hope this helps
    Jorge
    
    
    ________________________________
    
    Von: Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard at gmail.com>
    Datum: 8. Juni 2018 um 21:20:41 MESZ
    An: Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net>
    Cc: Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5 <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>
    Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Follow up on comment in chat during WT5 meeting of 6 June
    
    +1 Marita
    
    On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net<mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
    I think this is a practical way forward. Let's start talking about a manageable "size of city" category that would not require an army of people to maintain, for starters. I imagine population is the easiest way to go. But maybe there are better ideas.
    
    Marita Moll
    
    
    
    On 6/8/2018 12:44 PM, Alexander Schubert wrote:
    Dear colleagues,
    
    Risking to repeat myself:
    
    *        The base for our discussions is the 2012 AGB; NOT a "blank page"
    
    *        The 2012 AGB distinguished between CATEGOGIES!
    
    *        The categories "UN Regions and 3166 Alpha-2 subnational regions" seem relatively undisputed
    
    *        So does the treatment of capital cities: All of these do not provide for a "non-geo use" provision!
    
    *        The ONLY other "category" was "cities"
    
    *        And for these there is a non-geo use provision
    
    Seemingly we now have two relatively simplistic tasks:
    
    1.      Asking ourselves what the "objective criteria" might be that would equate a SIZEABLE city with the above categories! Undoubtedly a Million people city community needs AT MINIMUM to be looped in when some "brand" wants to hijack the name on DNS top level. Anybody who tries to tell me that the "trade mark rights" of a "brand" are outweighing those of 1 Million people earns my complete rejection. Sorry. The question is what the criteria would be to lift a city into the same category as capital cities or 3166 subnational regions.
    
    2.      OUTSIDE of regulating the city category we MIGHT discuss other potential geo categories. But let's not conflate both categories. Let's focus.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Alexander.berlin
    
    
    
    
    
    From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Heather Forrest
    Sent: Freitag, 8. Juni 2018 09:16
    To: gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>
    Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Follow up on comment in chat during WT5 meeting of 6 June
    
    Dear WT5 colleagues,
    I write to follow up on my comment in the AC chat near the end of our meeting on 6 June 2018 (Heather Forrest: In my view all of the proposals above based on quantitative thresholds suffer from randomness. I do not support the use of the letter of support/non-objection for other reasons already noted on the list, but these proposals create more problems. AND Heather Forrest:+1 Liz - and indeed I should have said 'arbitrariness' rather than 'randomness' (apologies- it's early morning here in APAC!)). I'm sorry that I had to drop the call soon after to attend another meeting, so was unable to provide context or answer questions.
    In the policy development process that led to the 2012 AGB the protection of famous and well-known trademarks, a legal right explicitly recognised by the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property (to which 177 countries are a member), was ultimately not adopted by the GNSO or implemented in the AGB. There is a very long history here that goes back to the Implementation Review Team (several highly experienced members of this PDP were members of that RT), but for our purposes I'll just highlight that protection of famous trademarks through a 'Globally Protected Marks List' (often referred to then as 'GPML') was rejected due to equivalent concerns as those raised by myself and others in our call about the use of quantitative, geographic eligibility criteria for protection.
    Those involved in the PDP at that time found it challenging to determine the criteria for identifying a mark as famous, and thus eligible to be included on the GPML. The inherently arbitrary nature of quantitative, geographical criteria (e.g., the mark being protected by registration in a specified number of jurisdictions in each of the five ICANN regions) was vigorously debated at ICANN35 in June 2009. At United States Congressional oversight hearings on new gTLDs in May 2011, ICANN's then Senior Vice President for Stakeholder Relations cited concerns expressed by WIPO as to the mechanics of such a list and opposition from the GAC as chief obstacles to its implementation in new gTLD policy. He concluded: 'The time, commitment and resources (from ICANN and the community) needed to create and maintain such a list would provide only marginal benefits as such a list would apply to only a small number of names and only for identical matches of those names.'  (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_sys&d=DwICAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=mBQzlSaM6eYCHFBU-v48zs-QSrjHB0aWmHuE4X4drzI&m=nK2yoQJ0pPSCyqzAsRMF9KtgFXEdle0G2zeu4t5geQk&s=3KQZV7bczyfVrTEymGAtU7dBGWWyMtOBouNeqNm8di8&e=
     tem/files/files/pritz-to-goodlatte-07jun11-en.pdf)
    Should WT5 conclude that it is now appropriate to use quantitative geographic criteria in relation to requirements on city names (as I have expressed before in meetings and submissions, I do not personally support this conclusion), we must be prepared to explain in detail in the Final Report how these criteria overcome challenge on the ground of arbitrariness, and are not inconsistent with this earlier GNSO policy decision.
     Best wishes,
    Heather Forrest
    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Terri Agnew <terri.agnew at icann.org<mailto:terri.agnew at icann.org>>
    Date: Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:25 PM
    Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Recordings, attendance & Adobe Connect chat from GNSO New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG Work Track 5 (Geographic Names at the top-level) call / Wednesday, 06 June 2018
    To: "gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>" <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>>
    Cc: "gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org>" <gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org>>
    
    Dear all,
    
    
    
    Please find the attendance and Adobe Connect chat of the call attached. The MP3 and Adobe Connect recording is below for the GNSO New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG Work Track 5 (Geographic Names at the top-level) call held on Wednesday, 06 June 2018 at 20:00 UTC.
    
    
    
    Agenda wiki page:   https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_MScFBQ&d=DwICAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=mBQzlSaM6eYCHFBU-v48zs-QSrjHB0aWmHuE4X4drzI&m=nK2yoQJ0pPSCyqzAsRMF9KtgFXEdle0G2zeu4t5geQk&s=Pn-hT-PMttl8dcLWAXU9hEEydzF7f98NlueZqo7Jbbc&e=
    
    
    
    As a reminder only members can join the call, observers can listen to the recordings and read the transcript afterwards. Please email gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> if you would like to change your status from observer to member.
    
    
    
    Mp3:  https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gnso-2Dnew-2Dgtld-2Dsubsequent-2Dtrack5-2D06jun18-2Den.mp3&d=DwICAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=mBQzlSaM6eYCHFBU-v48zs-QSrjHB0aWmHuE4X4drzI&m=nK2yoQJ0pPSCyqzAsRMF9KtgFXEdle0G2zeu4t5geQk&s=HPJel02FlR5aFV_06dhU6J_IIQ6K2RcyZMz5UfCqeMo&e=
    
    
    
    Adobe Connect recording: https://participate.icann.org/p8b696447i2/<https://participate.icann.org/p8b696447i2/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=d01eb915b907ba60b592ccc21320b2067715609560b344fb59191929d07b3045>
    
    The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwICAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=mBQzlSaM6eYCHFBU-v48zs-QSrjHB0aWmHuE4X4drzI&m=nK2yoQJ0pPSCyqzAsRMF9KtgFXEdle0G2zeu4t5geQk&s=aioHpJDFziF-dMrIwqYVixeRy3_Fch5Hep_eo9WdLLI&e=
    
    ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
    
    
    
    Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5/
    
    
    
    Main wiki page:  https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_YASbAw&d=DwICAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=mBQzlSaM6eYCHFBU-v48zs-QSrjHB0aWmHuE4X4drzI&m=nK2yoQJ0pPSCyqzAsRMF9KtgFXEdle0G2zeu4t5geQk&s=Ya-GKQCxv9ACIiswH5rgWAuHNZPhF35VLbYFLnFvrtc&e=
    
    
    
    Thank you.
    
    Kind regards,
    
    
    
    Terri
    
    
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