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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=宋体>+1 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=宋体></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=宋体>In case of referring opinions of any AC/SOs, it would
be better to quote those statements as reference instead of defining other
opinions as "personal".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=宋体></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=宋体>Kaili</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=宋体></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 9pt 宋体">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9pt 宋体; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gregshatanipc@gmail.com href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">Greg
Shatan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9pt 宋体"><B>To:</B> <A title=aslam@rnaip.com
href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">Aslam Mohamed</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9pt 宋体"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9pt 宋体"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 30, 2017 2:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 9pt 宋体"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Concerns
on the WT5 Terms of Reference and proposed expansion of the scope of geo-names
to include other concepts as well</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=auto>Robin;</DIV>
<DIV dir=auto><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=auto>Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments, with which I
wholeheartedly agree.</DIV>
<DIV dir=auto><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=auto>It is important for all participants to acknowledge that the
views of each participant carry equal weight and each participant participates
on an equal footing. Characterizing one participant’s comments as
“personal views” seems intended to be dismissive. All views here are equally
“personal” as all are stakeholders. This is not a cyberspace
version of “Animal Farm,” where all animals are equal, but some animals are
more equal than others.</DIV>
<DIV dir=auto><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=auto>Similarly, it’s important for any participant to be cautious
about claiming to speak for other stakeholders without express authorization
to do so. This can appear to an attempt to inflate the importance of
one’s own views by claiming they are the views of many. This is not helpful to
genuine dialogue, especially in conjunction with attempts to minimize the
views of others.</DIV>
<DIV dir=auto><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=auto>We are each here to represent the views and concerns of the many
in our respective stakeholder communities who do not and cannot participate
directly in the ICANN process. This equivalency is fundamentally important to
the success of the multistakeholder process.</DIV>
<DIV dir=auto><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=auto>Greg</DIV><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:59 PM Aslam Mohamed <<A
href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">aslam@rnaip.com</A>> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Dear Kavouss
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I was quite impressed by your emphatic advocacy for GAC in Abu Dhabi
and I see it continues in your comments on ToR in the mail trailed below.
However I would like to meet you sometime or offline and till then emphasize
that in a multi stakeholder forum like ICANN, GAC will have to modify it’s
approach and not seek GAC primacy in the decision making process. Hence I
would suggest we approach the entire WT5 process in a spirit that GAC advice
is NOT binding on the Board and that the GAC would accept this position as
and when it arises.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 10px; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal">
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal"><SPAN><B>Kind
Regards</B></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal"><SPAN><B><BR></B></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal"><B>Aslam
G Mohamed. Advocate</B></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><B>US Business Development</B></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal">
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal"><SPAN><B>Mob <A
href="tel:+1%20646%20243%209857" target=_blank>+1 646 243
9857</A></B></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal"><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><SPAN
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class=m_380318806956740215Apple-interchange-newline>RNA, Technology and IP
Attorneys </B></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
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href="http://rnaip.com/" target=_blank>rnaip.com</A><SPAN
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<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<DIV><B></B><BR>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:29 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <<A
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com"
target=_blank>kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR
class=m_380318806956740215Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<TABLE class="m_380318806956740215gmail-gJ m_380318806956740215gmail-cf"
cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR class=m_380318806956740215gmail-acZ>
<TD
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-gF m_380318806956740215gmail-gK"><TABLE
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-cf m_380318806956740215gmail-ix"
cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<H3 class=m_380318806956740215gmail-iw><SPAN
class=m_380318806956740215gmail-gD name="Robin Gross">Robin
Gross</SPAN> <SPAN class=m_380318806956740215gmail-go><A
class=m_380318806956740215gmail-acP
href="https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1311182?hl=en"
target=_blank><FONT color=#222222>via</FONT></A> <A
href="http://icann.org/"
target=_blank>icann.org</A> </SPAN></H3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
<TD class=m_380318806956740215gmail-gH>
<DIV class=m_380318806956740215gmail-gK><SPAN><SPAN
id=m_380318806956740215gmail-:1np class=m_380318806956740215gmail-g3
title="Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 6:48 PM"
alt="Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 6:48 PM">6:48 PM (1 hour ago)</SPAN>
<DIV
style="OUTLINE-STYLE: none; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px"
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-bi4 m_380318806956740215gmail-zd"><SPAN
class=m_380318806956740215gmail-T-KT><IMG
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-f m_380318806956740215gmail-T-KT-JX"
alt=""
src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif"></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></TD>
<TD class=m_380318806956740215gmail-gH></TD>
<TD class="m_380318806956740215gmail-acX m_380318806956740215gmail-gH"
rowSpan=2>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-L3 m_380318806956740215gmail-aaq m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-ax7 m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I m_380318806956740215gmail-J-J5-Ji m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-Js-IF"><IMG
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-hB m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-J3"
alt=""
src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif"></DIV>
<DIV id=m_380318806956740215gmail-:1o0
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-ax7 m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-Js-Gs m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I m_380318806956740215gmail-aap m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-awG m_380318806956740215gmail-L3 m_380318806956740215gmail-J-J5-Ji"><IMG
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-hA m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-J3"
alt=""
src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif"> within
the lines</DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-ax7 m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-Js-Gs m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I m_380318806956740215gmail-aap m_380318806956740215gmail-T-I-awG m_380318806956740215gmail-L3 m_380318806956740215gmail-J-J5-Ji"><BR></DIV></TD></TR>
<TR
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-acZ m_380318806956740215gmail-xD"><TD
colSpan=3>
<TABLE
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-adz m_380318806956740215gmail-cf"
cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD class=m_380318806956740215gmail-ady>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-ajw m_380318806956740215gmail-iw"><SPAN
class=m_380318806956740215gmail-hb>Dear All, I wish to comment
on comments made by Robin</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-ajw m_380318806956740215gmail-iw"><SPAN
class=m_380318806956740215gmail-hb>to <SPAN
class=m_380318806956740215gmail-g2
name="gnso-newgtld-w.">gnso-newgtld-w.</SPAN> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=m_380318806956740215gmail-ajy><IMG
id=m_380318806956740215gmail-:1nz
class=m_380318806956740215gmail-ajz alt=""
src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif"></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV class=m_380318806956740215gmail-qQVYZb>
<DIV class=m_380318806956740215gmail-utdU2e>
<DIV class=m_380318806956740215gmail-btm>
<DIV class=m_380318806956740215gmail-aHl>
<DIV id=m_380318806956740215gmail-:1ny>
<DIV id=m_380318806956740215gmail-:1nn
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-adP m_380318806956740215gmail-ii m_380318806956740215gmail-adO m_380318806956740215gmail-gt">
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821">I
didn’t have audio on last night’s WT5 call, so thought I’d send my
comments directly to the list today about the proposed Terms of Reference
revealed yesterday.<BR><BR><EM>Paragraph 1: It is not appropriate to
include an “approval" model as something this group will make
recommendations on, that presumptively moves away from the model that the
GNSO and Board created in the last round, which intentionally and
explicitly did not require a permission-based model for names. It is
simply inappropriate for this fundamental policy change to be slipped-in
to the Terms of Reference before we begin our work. We would be
ill-advised to “put the cart before the horse”, but this bracketed
language does exactly that.</EM><BR><BR><FONT
color=#0000ff>Reply</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821"><FONT
color=#0000ff>This is your views, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821"><FONT
color=#0000ff>Views of many GAC MEMBER<EM> </EM>is entirely <EM>in line
with draft </EM>The course of action mentioned by the Board is
before 2016 there were two procedure either seeking agreement or
apply the mitigation. Several GAC<EM> </EM>members opposed to the second
option <EM>.There are</EM> <EM>several GAC ADVICE IN THIS
REGARD</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821"><EM><FONT
color=#0000ff> .</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821"><EM>Paragraph
2: Regulating "names with a cultural significance" and "names with
economic significance" are outside the scope of this PDP. This is a
PDP regarding geo-names, so adding-on two additional types of names into
the ToR is an inappropriate expansion of the scope of this group’s
mandate. Let’s focus on defining what “geo-names” are, rather
than including other concepts into the ToR -- that are geo-names.
This PDP was set-up to work on geo-names, the chartering organizations
agreed to participate under the understanding that it would be limited to
geo-names, so we need to stick to our mandate and our agreement in setting
up the WT</EM></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821"><FONT
color=#0000ff>Reply</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821"><FONT
color=#0000ff>Again this is your personal views as many GAC members
associate crucial importance to these two criteria
<BR></FONT><BR> While I support giving significant consideration to
risks in our analysis, let's flesh this concept out more and also include
benefits in the analysis, rather than being singularly focused on
risks. We are in danger of having a wholly “negative” analysis that
won’t consider “positives” as well. We may wish to recognize that
some risks are worth taking and consider some element of a risk-to-benefit
analysis in order to be more complete in our own evaluation. Our
analysis should recognize that some issues create risks to one part of
ICANN community while simultaneously creating benefits to other parts of
the ICANN community — we need to consider how we will handle such mixed
outcomes and viewpoints in our analysis. So I think this can
be a highly useful approach, but needs to be fleshed out, balanced, and
nuanced a bit further in light of the complexities.<BR><EM><FONT
color=#0000ff>Reply</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821"><EM><FONT
color=#0000ff>While I disagree to start with risk based approach at the
begining of the process , I disagree with you catégorisions it as
negative</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821"><EM>Regards</EM></DIV>
<DIV
class="m_380318806956740215gmail-a3s m_380318806956740215gmail-aXjCH m_380318806956740215gmail-m16008e5e75092821">Kavouss
<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Martin Sutton
<SPAN><<A href="mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org"
target=_blank>martin@brandregistrygroup.org</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>Hi Robin,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you for sending through your comments. We will combine
your comments on the ToR with those provided on the call and subsequent
submissions from WT5 members, so we can review on next week’s
call.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Regarding the risk approach, I over-simplified the slides in order
to focus attention on drawing out the risks as a primary goal before
leading us into assessing the risks. At that stage we must look at
whether the risks themselves warrant any specific controls (beyond the
monitoring and enforcement mechanisms for a live registry) and how these
could impact any positive elements of enabling new gTLDs relating to
geographic terms. This is an important aspect of the process and needs
to balance the risks we are concerned about with the level of controls
applied. Back to my physics days, every action has an equal and
opposite reaction - so as we move the dial of controls, we do need to
appreciate the impact of such changes with the aim of achieving an
acceptable balance. I should have made that clearer and I note
that some of the comments in the chat I have subsequently read picked up
on this point as well.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Kind regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Martin</DIV><SPAN class=m_380318806956740215HOEnZb><FONT
color=#888888></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=m_380318806956740215HOEnZb><FONT
color=#888888> <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal"><B>Martin
Sutton</B></DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal">Executive
Director</DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal">Brand
Registry Group</DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; font-variant-caps: normal"><A
href="mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org"
target=_blank>martin@brandregistrygroup.org</A></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV class=m_380318806956740215h5>
<DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>On 29 Nov 2017, at 17:48, Robin Gross <<A
href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org"
target=_blank>robin@ipjustice.org</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR
class=m_380318806956740215m_6836279137858885485Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV>
<DIV>I didn’t have audio on last night’s WT5 call, so thought I’d send
my comments directly to the list today about the proposed Terms of
Reference revealed yesterday.<BR><BR>Paragraph 1: It is not
appropriate to include an “approval" model as something this group
will make recommendations on, that presumptively moves away from the
model that the GNSO and Board created in the last round, which
intentionally and explicitly did not require a permission-based model
for names. It is simply inappropriate for this fundamental
policy change to be slipped-in to the Terms of Reference before we
begin our work. We would be ill-advised to “put the cart before
the horse”, but this bracketed language does exactly
that.<BR><BR>Paragraph 2: Regulating "names with a cultural
significance" and "names with economic significance" are outside the
scope of this PDP. This is a PDP regarding geo-names, so
adding-on two additional types of names into the ToR is an
inappropriate expansion of the scope of this group’s mandate.
Let’s focus on defining what “geo-names” are, rather than
including other concepts into the ToR -- that are geo-names.
This PDP was set-up to work on geo-names, the chartering organizations
agreed to participate under the understanding that it would be limited
to geo-names, so we need to stick to our mandate and our agreement in
setting up the WT. <BR><BR>While I support giving significant
consideration to risks in our analysis, let's flesh this concept out
more and also include benefits in the analysis, rather than being
singularly focused on risks. We are in danger of having a wholly
“negative” analysis that won’t consider “positives” as well. We
may wish to recognize that some risks are worth taking and consider
some element of a risk-to-benefit analysis in order to be more
complete in our own evaluation. Our analysis should recognize
that some issues create risks to one part of ICANN community while
simultaneously creating benefits to other parts of the ICANN community
— we need to consider how we will handle such mixed outcomes and
viewpoints in our analysis. So I think this can be a
highly useful approach, but needs to be fleshed out, balanced, and
nuanced a bit further in light of the
complexities.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Robin<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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