<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Dear All<div>I am not comfortable with any such list even if maintained neutrally </div><div>This is an issue on which each country would have the right to react</div><div>I am not in favour of involving any third country at all</div><div>Kavouss<br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On 1 Dec 2017, at 04:24, Aslam Mohamed <<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">aslam@rnaip.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
This link might be helpful to understand how geo Names are being grappled with in an organised and professional manner:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Information about foreign geographic feature names can be obtained from the <a href="http://geonames.nga.mil/gns/html/index.html" target="_blank">GEOnet Names Server (GNS)</a>, developed and maintained
by the <a href="http://www.nga.mil/" target="_blank">National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA)</a>. The GNS database is the official repository of foreign place-name decisions approved by the U.S. Board on Geographic Names. </span></p>
<blockquote>
<p><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Trent Palmer<br>
US BGN Executive Secretary, Foreign Names<br>
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency<br>
7500 GEOINT Drive Mail Stop N62<br>
Springfield, VA 22150-7500<br>
Phone/fax: (571) 557-7028 / (571) 558-3113<br>
E-mail: <a href="mailto:Trent.C.Palmer@nga.mil">Trent.C.Palmer@nga.mil</a></span></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Kind Regards </span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Aslam Mohamed. Advocate </span></div>
<div>US Business Development </div>
<div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Ph: <a href="tel:+1%20646%20243%209857" title="tel:+1%20646%20243%209857">+1 646 243 9857</a></span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
<img height="26" width="118" src="https://higherlogicdownload.s3.amazonaws.com/IPO/MessageImages/e8c178193df6475281bb991a2e32c8d7.png" title="null" _mf_state="1"></span>
<div style="text-indent: 0px;"><span style="text-indent: -144pt; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">RNA, Technology and IP Attorneys.</span></div>
<div style="text-indent: 0px;"><span lang="EN-US" style="text-indent: -192px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a href="http://rnaip.com/" title="http://rnaip.com/">rnaip.com</a> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 30 Nov 2017, at 22:09, Barrack Otieno <<a href="mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com">otieno.barrack@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>Hi all,</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Following the thread, i must say that each person is right to some</span><br>
<span>extent. I also agree that we have to appreciate and respect diverse</span><br>
<span>viewpoint as has been rightly stated. That said we should take</span><br>
<span>cognisance of the fact that International law has not evolved at the</span><br>
<span>same pace as innovation. This is especially so in the global south</span><br>
<span>where most countries are still battling bread and butter issues and</span><br>
<span>are only starting to get used to the value attached to the global real</span><br>
<span>estate known as the Internet. It therefore behoves us to consider both</span><br>
<span>the letter and the spirit of the law even though as i understand the</span><br>
<span>business of gNSO is business. If we consider the spirit of the law</span><br>
<span>then we might want to consider the evolving nature of the ISO 3166</span><br>
<span>Standard and possibly reflect on the philosophy of RFC 1591 with</span><br>
<span>respect to countries territories. Of course we also have names of</span><br>
<span>Cities and towns that are shared globally.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>A purely legalistic point of view will result in a stale mate in this</span><br>
<span>conversation.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Best Regards</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>On 12/1/17, Aslam Mohamed <<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">aslam@rnaip.com</a>> wrote:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Very well articulated Greg. That’s exactly the point I was trying to make.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>That Heather’s thesis is so lucid that dismissing it on emotion does not</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>fly. And it needs to be countered by reason which in my research there is</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>none.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kind Regards</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Aslam Mohamed. Advocate</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>US Business Development</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Ph: +1 646 243 9857<<a href="tel:+1%20646%20243%209857">tel:+1%20646%20243%209857</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="https://higherlogicdownload.s3.amazonaws.com/IPO/MessageImages/e8c178193df6475281bb991a2e32c8d7.png">https://higherlogicdownload.s3.amazonaws.com/IPO/MessageImages/e8c178193df6475281bb991a2e32c8d7.png</a>]</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>RNA, Technology and IP Attorneys.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://rnaip.com">rnaip.com</a><<a href="http://rnaip.com/">http://rnaip.com/</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 30 Nov 2017, at 21:41, Greg Shatan</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Is there a paper with reasoned analysis that differs from the "views" so</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>well laid-out by Prof. Forrest? Is there any reason that the views in this</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>paper are not valid? Clearly, the fact that this paper (or any paper or</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>position) represents the views of its author is merely a statement of fact,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>and cannot refute the logic or validity of any position. Since that goes</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>without saying, there's no point in saying it, except as a rhetorical</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>attempt to dismiss differing views without dealing with their merits.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Of course, the multistakeholder model depends on discourse and persuasion</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>dealing with the merits of differing viewpoints. As such, the email above</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>contributes nothing to the conversation (except to the extent it can be</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>construed as an admission that there are no reasoned and logical ways to</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>oppose the merits of Prof. Forrest's paper).</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>And, if (as was stated) there are thousands of papers that are consistent</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>with Professor Forrest's paper, and none that are consistent with your</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>dismissal of that paper, then that is very telling indeed. Thus, until we</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>see papers, etc. refuting this analysis, we must accept it.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>As for claims that "You and none of your supporter has a right I et the</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Persepolis Which is one of the well known capital of one of the most</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>ancient civilisation Acamanech in greater Iran</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>No person is authorised to use the name in any level without the co sent of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Iran"? This is clearly an argument, not a statement of fact. And it is</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>clearly not, in fact, the case, see, e.g.:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.persepolisnewyork.com/">http://www.persepolisnewyork.com/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/savannahpersepolis/">https://www.facebook.com/savannahpersepolis/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.persepolis-restaurant.de/">http://www.persepolis-restaurant.de/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://foratasteofpersia.co.uk/">http://foratasteofpersia.co.uk/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.perspolispizzasubs.com/">https://www.perspolispizzasubs.com/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/persepolis.cuisine/">https://www.facebook.com/persepolis.cuisine/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.yelp.com/biz/persepolis-leoben">https://www.yelp.com/biz/persepolis-leoben</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.restaurantpersepolis.de/">http://www.restaurantpersepolis.de/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.zomato.com/montreal/brochetterie-persepolis-montr%C3%A9al">https://www.zomato.com/montreal/brochetterie-persepolis-montr%C3%A9al</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.facebook.com/sherbrooke.ca/">https://www.facebook.com/sherbrooke.ca/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.persepolisgrill.com/">http://www.persepolisgrill.com/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/160890/persepolis-by-marjane-satrapi/9780375714573/">https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/160890/persepolis-by-marjane-satrapi/9780375714573/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis_(film)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis_(film)</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.cafepress.com/+persepolis+gifts">http://www.cafepress.com/+persepolis+gifts</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.persepolisorientalrug.com/">http://www.persepolisorientalrug.com/</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.persepolis-shop.com/en/index.html">http://www.persepolis-shop.com/en/index.html</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.havertys.com/furniture/persepolis-rug">https://www.havertys.com/furniture/persepolis-rug</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.booking.com/hotel/fr/le-persepolis.html">https://www.booking.com/hotel/fr/le-persepolis.html</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.just-eat.co.uk/restaurants-persepolis-g42/menu">https://www.just-eat.co.uk/restaurants-persepolis-g42/menu</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2014/09/29/whats-new-restaurants-persepolis-sanlitun">https://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2014/09/29/whats-new-restaurants-persepolis-sanlitun</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.booking.com/hotel/it/persepolis-rome.html">https://www.booking.com/hotel/it/persepolis-rome.html</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.deltatravel.ro/bucharest-hotels/persepolis.php">http://www.deltatravel.ro/bucharest-hotels/persepolis.php</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>And, for your listening pleasure, "Persepolis" by Iannis Xenakis:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-GEbbgT5Io">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-GEbbgT5Io</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Best regards,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Aslam Mohamed</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">aslam@rnaip.com</a><<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">mailto:aslam@rnaip.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Kavouss</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I respectfully agree with you that it is ‘only’ Heather’s views. I also</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>respect Iran very much. But unfortunately sovereignty cannot extend beyond</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>one's territory. Since ICANN and gTLD are trans national issues sovereignty</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>might not be able to solve the problem - there will be 200 or more</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>sovereigns having their own assertions - a sure recipe for chaos. And this</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>is without the melee of rights in personam and rem.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>That’s why the ICANN Bylaws become important and all stakeholders and</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>managements have to adopt that as the final word, unequivocally.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kind Regards</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Aslam G Mohamed. Advocate</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>US Business Development</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Mob +1 646 243 9857<<a href="tel:+1%20646%20243%209857">tel:+1%20646%20243%209857</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>[cid:image001.png@01D2730D.4FCB7A70]</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>RNA, Technology and IP Attorneys</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://rnaip.com">rnaip.com</a><<a href="http://rnaip.com/">http://rnaip.com/</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Nov 30, 2017, at 3:51 PM, Kavouss Arasteh</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Aslam</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Thank for the paper</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>However, it is simple the views of Dr. Heather Frorest and not more than</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>that.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>There are thousand of this type of articles which all reflect the views of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>their authors and nothing more</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kavouss</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:26 PM, Paul Rosenzweig</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sorry, Kavoush, but I am not a famous lawyer at all</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>As for your claim to the “rights” to old names – unless you can cite some</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>law that is nothing more than a claim. It is not at all “obvious” to me</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>that you have any claim at all to those names … and the paper that Aslam</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>cited makes clear why this is so.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>If the basis for this discussion is going to be Iranian claims that it is</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>“obvious” that they are right this is going to be a very short and fruitless</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>conversation.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul Rosenzweig</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>M: +1 (202) 329-9650<tel:(202)%20329-9650></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739<tel:(202)%20738-1739></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Arasteh</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>]</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 3:20 PM</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>To: Paul Rosenzweig</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>;</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Aslam Mohamed <<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">aslam@rnaip.com</a><<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">mailto:aslam@rnaip.com</a>>>; Icann Gnso Newgtld</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Wg Wt5</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Concerns on the WT5 Terms of Reference</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>and proposed expansion of the scope of geo-names to include other concepts</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>as well</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I recognise you as one of the most famous well known lawyers in the USA</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>You may wish to consider that for obvious thing there is no to have « so</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>called « international law</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Customer law which is the most oldest and most referenced law could also be</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>used as a proper reference</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>You and none of your supporter has a right I et the Persepolis Which is</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>one of the well known capital of one of the most ancient civilisation</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Acamanech in greater Iran</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>No person is authorised to use the name in any level without the co sent of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Iran</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Whose who have recognised history understand that</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kavouss</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent from my iPhone</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 30 Nov 2017, at 17:28, Paul Rosenzweig</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Indeed, I would go further – there is no international law that I know of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>that gives a nation “sovereign rights” to place names … I invite you</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kavouss to point me to any such expression in binding (or even advisory)</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>international law.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul Rosenzweig</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>M: +1 (202) 329-9650<tel:(202)%20329-9650></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739<tel:(202)%20738-1739></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Greg Shatan [<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>]</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 11:18 AM</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>To: Arasteh <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Aslam Mohamed <<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">aslam@rnaip.com</a><<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">mailto:aslam@rnaip.com</a>>>; Icann Gnso</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Newgtld Wg Wt5</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>; Paul</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Rosenzweig</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Concerns on the WT5 Terms of Reference</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>and proposed expansion of the scope of geo-names to include other concepts</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>as well</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kavouss has given us a succinct summary of one view of the “primacy issue.”</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>The claim that “there is no primacy issue” is in fact a key part of the</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>primacy issue (since it really means “there is no issue if you acknowledge</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the primacy of governments”).</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I agree that we all need to express our views freely. However, I see no</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>attacks or anything offensive in this thread. Claims of attacks or</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>offensive behavior have a a chilling effect on the free expression of views.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Furthermore, the free expression of differing views includes (by</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>definition) criticisms of those views. A request to abstain from criticism</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>is a request to refrain from dialogue. Clearly, that’s not happening.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Of course, under the multistakeholder model, if enough of the members of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>this group support each other’s views that becomes the consensus result of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>this WT and this WG. In the meantime those views need to be dealt with in</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>substance, rather than being dismissed without consideration.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>There are claims of legitimate rights on all sides of the issues here. We</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>will need to weigh and analyze the basis of those claims and validity of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>those claims, and to determine how to balance the contradictions between</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>various legitimate rights. Sovereignty is no trump card, especially when</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>stacked against the rule of law.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:54 AM Arasteh</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear All</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>There is no primacy issue here.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>It is the sovereignty of governments on the names of their cities, rivers.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Historical places, religious holy places legends which must be respected</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>There should be a respect to all these and no commercial interests shall</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>compromise them</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>If there is supremacy on the table it does not come from governments but it</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>from others that which to forced governments to give up their national and</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>historical heritage</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>You can support each other’s as many time as you wish but that does not</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>deprive any governments from its legitimate rights</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>We need to express our views freely without being criticised , collectively</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>attacked and ofended</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Tks</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kavouss</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent from my iPhone</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 30 Nov 2017, at 15:44, Paul Rosenzweig</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Robin, Greg and Aslam are completely correct. The repeated efforts by the</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>GAC to assert primacy in the development of rules and policies is</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>antithetical to the very concept of the multi-stakeholder model. It is</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>particularly necessary to be cautious when GAC primacy is asserted in</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>support of mandates and authoritarian models of behavior.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul Rosenzweig</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>M: +1 (202) 329-9650<tel:(202)%20329-9650></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739<tel:(202)%20738-1739></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>] On</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Behalf Of Greg Shatan</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 1:28 AM</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>To: Aslam Mohamed <<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">aslam@rnaip.com</a><<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">mailto:aslam@rnaip.com</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Concerns on the WT5 Terms of Reference</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>and proposed expansion of the scope of geo-names to include other concepts</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>as well</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Robin;</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments, with which I</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wholeheartedly agree.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>It is important for all participants to acknowledge that the views of each</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>participant carry equal weight and each participant participates on an equal</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>footing. Characterizing one participant’s comments as “personal views”</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>seems intended to be dismissive. All views here are equally “personal” as</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>all are stakeholders. This is not a cyberspace version of “Animal Farm,”</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>where all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Similarly, it’s important for any participant to be cautious about claiming</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>to speak for other stakeholders without express authorization to do so.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>This can appear to an attempt to inflate the importance of one’s own views</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>by claiming they are the views of many. This is not helpful to genuine</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>dialogue, especially in conjunction with attempts to minimize the views of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>others.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>We are each here to represent the views and concerns of the many in our</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>respective stakeholder communities who do not and cannot participate</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>directly in the ICANN process. This equivalency is fundamentally important</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>to the success of the multistakeholder process.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:59 PM Aslam Mohamed</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">aslam@rnaip.com</a><<a href="mailto:aslam@rnaip.com">mailto:aslam@rnaip.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Kavouss</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I was quite impressed by your emphatic advocacy for GAC in Abu Dhabi and I</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>see it continues in your comments on ToR in the mail trailed below. However</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I would like to meet you sometime or offline and till then emphasize that in</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>a multi stakeholder forum like ICANN, GAC will have to modify it’s approach</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>and not seek GAC primacy in the decision making process. Hence I would</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>suggest we approach the entire WT5 process in a spirit that GAC advice is</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>NOT binding on the Board and that the GAC would accept this position as and</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>when it arises.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kind Regards</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Aslam G Mohamed. Advocate</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>US Business Development</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Mob +1 646 243 9857<<a href="tel:+1%20646%20243%209857">tel:+1%20646%20243%209857</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><image001.png></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>RNA, Technology and IP Attorneys</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://rnaip.com">rnaip.com</a><<a href="http://rnaip.com/">http://rnaip.com/</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:29 PM, Kavouss Arasteh</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Robin Gross via<<a href="https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1311182?hl=en">https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1311182?hl=en</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://icann.org">icann.org</a><<a href="http://icann.org/">http://icann.org/</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>6:48 PM (1 hour ago)</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif">https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif</a>]</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif">https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif</a>]</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif">https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif</a>] within the lines</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear All, I wish to comment on comments made by Robin</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>to gnso-newgtld-w.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif">https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif</a>]</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I didn’t have audio on last night’s WT5 call, so thought I’d send my</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>comments directly to the list today about the proposed Terms of Reference</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>revealed yesterday.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paragraph 1: It is not appropriate to include an “approval" model as</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>something this group will make recommendations on, that presumptively moves</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>away from the model that the GNSO and Board created in the last round, which</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>intentionally and explicitly did not require a permission-based model for</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>names. It is simply inappropriate for this fundamental policy change to be</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>slipped-in to the Terms of Reference before we begin our work. We would be</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>ill-advised to “put the cart before the horse”, but this bracketed language</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>does exactly that.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Reply</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>This is your views,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Views of many GAC MEMBER is entirely in line with draft The course of action</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>mentioned by the Board is before 2016 there were two procedure either</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>seeking agreement or apply the mitigation. Several GAC members opposed to</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the second option .There are several GAC ADVICE IN THIS REGARD</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paragraph 2: Regulating "names with a cultural significance" and "names with</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>economic significance" are outside the scope of this PDP. This is a PDP</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>regarding geo-names, so adding-on two additional types of names into the ToR</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>is an inappropriate expansion of the scope of this group’s mandate. Let’s</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>focus on defining what “geo-names” are, rather than including other concepts</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>into the ToR -- that are geo-names. This PDP was set-up to work on</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>geo-names, the chartering organizations agreed to participate under the</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>understanding that it would be limited to geo-names, so we need to stick to</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>our mandate and our agreement in setting up the WT</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Reply</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Again this is your personal views as many GAC members associate crucial</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>importance to these two criteria</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>While I support giving significant consideration to risks in our analysis,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>let's flesh this concept out more and also include benefits in the analysis,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>rather than being singularly focused on risks. We are in danger of having a</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wholly “negative” analysis that won’t consider “positives” as well. We may</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wish to recognize that some risks are worth taking and consider some element</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>of a risk-to-benefit analysis in order to be more complete in our own</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>evaluation. Our analysis should recognize that some issues create risks to</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>one part of ICANN community while simultaneously creating benefits to other</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>parts of the ICANN community — we need to consider how we will handle such</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>mixed outcomes and viewpoints in our analysis. So I think this can be a</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>highly useful approach, but needs to be fleshed out, balanced, and nuanced a</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>bit further in light of the complexities.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Reply</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>While I disagree to start with risk based approach at the begining of the</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>process , I disagree with you catégorisions it as negative</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Regards</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kavouss</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Martin Sutton</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org">martin@brandregistrygroup.org</a><<a href="mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org">mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org</a>>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Hi Robin,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Thank you for sending through your comments. We will combine your comments</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>on the ToR with those provided on the call and subsequent submissions from</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>WT5 members, so we can review on next week’s call.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Regarding the risk approach, I over-simplified the slides in order to focus</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>attention on drawing out the risks as a primary goal before leading us into</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>assessing the risks. At that stage we must look at whether the risks</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>themselves warrant any specific controls (beyond the monitoring and</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>enforcement mechanisms for a live registry) and how these could impact any</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>positive elements of enabling new gTLDs relating to geographic terms. This</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>is an important aspect of the process and needs to balance the risks we are</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>concerned about with the level of controls applied. Back to my physics</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>days, every action has an equal and opposite reaction - so as we move the</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>dial of controls, we do need to appreciate the impact of such changes with</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the aim of achieving an acceptable balance. I should have made that clearer</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>and I note that some of the comments in the chat I have subsequently read</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>picked up on this point as well.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Kind regards,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Martin</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Martin Sutton</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Executive Director</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Brand Registry Group</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org">martin@brandregistrygroup.org</a><<a href="mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org">mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 29 Nov 2017, at 17:48, Robin Gross</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a><<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">mailto:robin@ipjustice.org</a>>> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I didn’t have audio on last night’s WT5 call, so thought I’d send my</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>comments directly to the list today about the proposed Terms of Reference</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>revealed yesterday.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paragraph 1: It is not appropriate to include an “approval" model as</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>something this group will make recommendations on, that presumptively moves</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>away from the model that the GNSO and Board created in the last round, which</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>intentionally and explicitly did not require a permission-based model for</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>names. It is simply inappropriate for this fundamental policy change to be</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>slipped-in to the Terms of Reference before we begin our work. We would be</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>ill-advised to “put the cart before the horse”, but this bracketed language</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>does exactly that.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Paragraph 2: Regulating "names with a cultural significance" and "names with</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>economic significance" are outside the scope of this PDP. This is a PDP</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>regarding geo-names, so adding-on two additional types of names into the ToR</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>is an inappropriate expansion of the scope of this group’s mandate. Let’s</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>focus on defining what “geo-names” are, rather than including other concepts</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>into the ToR -- that are geo-names. This PDP was set-up to work on</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>geo-names, the chartering organizations agreed to participate under the</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>understanding that it would be limited to geo-names, so we need to stick to</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>our mandate and our agreement in setting up the WT.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>While I support giving significant consideration to risks in our analysis,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>let's flesh this concept out more and also include benefits in the analysis,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>rather than being singularly focused on risks. We are in danger of having a</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wholly “negative” analysis that won’t consider “positives” as well. We may</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>wish to recognize that some risks are worth taking and consider some element</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>of a risk-to-benefit analysis in order to be more complete in our own</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>evaluation. Our analysis should recognize that some issues create risks to</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>one part of ICANN community while simultaneously creating benefits to other</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>parts of the ICANN community — we need to consider how we will handle such</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>mixed outcomes and viewpoints in our analysis. So I think this can be a</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>highly useful approach, but needs to be fleshed out, balanced, and nuanced a</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>bit further in light of the complexities.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Thanks,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Robin</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>IMPORTANT NOTICE - The contents of this email and attachments are</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. Copying or communicating</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>any part of it to others is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the intended recipient you must not use, copy, distribute or rely on this</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>email and should please return it immediately or notify us by telephone.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>While we take every reasonable precaution to screen out computer viruses</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>from emails, attachments to this email may contain such viruses. We cannot</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>accept liability for loss or damage resulting from such viruses. The</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>integrity of email across the Internet cannot be guaranteed and RNA will not</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>accept liability for any claims arising as a result of the use of this</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>medium for transmissions by or to RNA.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>IMPORTANT NOTICE - The contents of this email and attachments are</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. Copying or communicating</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>any part of it to others is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the intended recipient you must not use, copy, distribute or rely on this</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>email and should please return it immediately or notify us by telephone.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>While we take every reasonable precaution to screen out computer viruses</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>from emails, attachments to this email may contain such viruses. We cannot</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>accept liability for loss or damage resulting from such viruses. The</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>integrity of email across the Internet cannot be guaranteed and RNA will not</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>accept liability for any claims arising as a result of the use of this</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>medium for transmissions by or to RNA.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>IMPORTANT NOTICE - The contents of this email and attachments are</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. Copying or communicating</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>any part of it to others is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the intended recipient you must not use, copy, distribute or rely on this</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>email and should please return it immediately or notify us by telephone.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>While we take every reasonable precaution to screen out computer viruses</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>from emails, attachments to this email may contain such viruses. We cannot</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>accept liability for loss or damage resulting from such viruses. The</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>integrity of email across the Internet cannot be guaranteed and RNA will not</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>accept liability for any claims arising as a result of the use of this</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>medium for transmissions by or to RNA.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>--</span><br>
<span>Barrack O. Otieno</span><br>
<span>+254721325277</span><br>
<span>+254733206359</span><br>
<span>Skype: barrack.otieno</span><br>
<span>PGP ID: 0x2611D86A</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<hr>
<font face="Verdana" color="Gray" size="1">IMPORTANT NOTICE - The contents of this email and attachments are confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. Copying or communicating any part of it to others is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are
not the intended recipient you must not use, copy, distribute or rely on this email and should please return it immediately or notify us by telephone. While we take every reasonable precaution to screen out computer viruses from emails, attachments to this
email may contain such viruses. We cannot accept liability for loss or damage resulting from such viruses. The integrity of email across the Internet cannot be guaranteed and RNA will not accept liability for any claims arising as a result of the use of this
medium for transmissions by or to RNA.<br>
</font>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span></div></blockquote></div></body></html>