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Hi Alexander,
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<div>I fully agree with you. The answer to your question:</div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">In that respect: should we add “3.1., in Module 2, page 66 of 338” to Martin’s summary and with that end the discussion about the 2 character namespace?</span></div>
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<div> is in my opinion clearly Yes. </div>
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<div>best,</div>
<div>Ann-Cathrin</div>
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<div>On 19 Jan 2018, at 15:00, Alexander Schubert <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear Liz, dear Ann-Cathrin,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Valuable input! Totally agree with it!<br>
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Our base is indeed -as pointed out by your contributions- the AGB 2012 as summarized by Martin:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>2.2.1.4
Geographic Names Review<o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'Courier New';"><span>o<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>2.2.1.4.1
Treatment of Country or Territory Names<o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'Courier New';"><span>o<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>2.2.1.4.2
Geographic Names Requiring Government Support<o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Not included in this summary is the two character provision, which is to be found in Module 2, 3.1., page 66 of 338:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">• <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><i><span style="color: rgb(46, 117, 182);">Part III - Policy Requirements for Generic Top-Level Domains<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></span></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(46, 117, 182);">3.1 Applied-for gTLD strings in ASCII must be composed<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(46, 117, 182);">of three or more visually distinct characters. Two-character<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(46, 117, 182);">ASCII strings are not permitted, to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">avoid</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(46, 117, 182);"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">conflicting<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(46, 117, 182);">with
current and future<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">country codes</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(46, 117, 182);"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(46, 117, 182);">based on the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(192, 0, 0);">ISO
3166-1<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(46, 117, 182);">standard.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">So in my eyes 3.1. is in so far relevant to WT5 and its scope as it clearly refers to “country codes” – and thus creates an affiliation with “geographical terms”.<br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">To answer Liz’s question: The current status quo per AGB 2012 allows for two character IDN applications, if these are NOT (optically) looking like a ASCII letter (see 3.2.1 and 3.2.2). Otherwise
two character (ASCII) strings are invalid as application. So the current AGB would CLEARLY DENY a gTLD .f1 or .3m!<br>
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We could now simply say: Our scope are only GEOGRAPHICAL terms! “f1” isn’t geographical – hence we have no scope to elaborate about it – we can’t “lift” it’s ban in WT5. If want to lift that ban: it has to be done in another WT. Not in WT5.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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In that respect: should we add “3.1., in Module 2, page 66 of 338” to Martin’s summary and with that end the discussion about the 2 character namespace?<br>
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Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Alexander<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Ann-Cathrin Marcussen<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, January 19, 2018 2:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kris Seeburn <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5 <<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conclusion of CWG-UCTN on 2-character codes<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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Hi Kris, <o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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I see your point about governments in certain countries and that they may want to use the 3 letter ISO code as a TLD, but no matter what we end up recommending in WT5, a 3 letter combination in ASCII should, in my opinion, always be a gTLD. This just in addition
to the fact that the scope of WT 5 is limited to geographic names - no matter how many letters or characters it may be in what we end up defining as a “geographic name”.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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I look forward to the next part of our work in WT 5 and suggest that we start with the ABG 2012 definitions, (see Martins email of 8 January 18 that lists the wording of ABG 2.2.1.4 + 2.2.1.4.1 and 2.2.1.4.2) and go through each and every part of the existing
definitions of geographic name. Then we would have a set of definitions and from thereon we can start discussing the requirements and conditions for future applications. <o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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best<o:p></o:p></div>
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Ann-Cathrin <o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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On 19 Jan 2018, at 13:13, Kris Seeburn <<a href="mailto:seeburn.k@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">seeburn.k@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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I agree with you but the actual situation still takes 2 character for most countries based on the ISO standard. However ISO also provides a 3 character for countries which is usually used by Airlines or on your passport. <o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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For example a cctld has MU and then 3 characters becomes MUR or MRU whichever ii is. This is a thin line situation where we need to be careful about. So when it comes to GEO which one has a priority cctld or gnso who will decide. With the Problem we face in
certain countries where individuals hold the 2 characters . I am guessing Government may well go and use the 3 character.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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I would perhaps suggest like a standing committee be the ones that takes all the so/ac to allocate or not else we may get into eternal fights for nothing.<o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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On Jan 19, 2018, at 16:03, Ann-Cathrin Marcussen <<a href="mailto:ann-cathrin.marcussen@norid.no" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ann-cathrin.marcussen@norid.no</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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Hi all, <o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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In my opinion it is outside the scope of WT5 to judge anything else than geographic terms. <span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">In terms of
2 character (ie F1 and 3M etc) those, in my mind, aren’t geo terms and thus out of scope.</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I am also of the opinion that we should keep the system that the requirement is that a gTLD needs to be
at least 3 characters. </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Ann-Cathrin</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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<o:p> </o:p></div>
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Best regards / Med vennlig hilsen <br>
<br>
Ann-Cathrin Marcussen<br>
Head of Legal<br>
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UNINETT Norid AS<br>
7465 Trondheim<br>
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Oslokontor<br>
St Olavs Plass 2<br>
0165 Oslo <br>
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Mobil +47 920 14 282<br>
<a href="mailto:acm@uninett.no" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">acm@uninett.no</a><o:p></o:p></div>
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On 18 Jan 2018, at 17:16, Alexander Schubert <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Rosalia,</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Do you support to reserve only the 2 LETTER codes, or all ASCII two CHARACTER codes? E.g.: Would you be OK with a gTLD “.f1” or “.3m”?</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
[<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Rosal?a
Morales<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, January 18, 2018 5:47 PM<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5 <<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conclusion of CWG-UCTN on 2-character codes</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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Dear All,<o:p></o:p></div>
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As a member of the already closed CWG-UCTN, I support the consensus that the group came about regarding 2-letter TLDs: reserving 2-letter codes for ccTLDs should be maintained. The effort and many years of discussion of the CWG-UCTN should serve as a great
stepping sone for this working group to build on. Opening this for debate once again, will lead to lengthy discussions and we will be reinventing the wheel once again. I strongly recommend supporting reserving 2-letter codes for ccTLDs as concluded by CWG-UCTN.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Best,<o:p></o:p></div>
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Rosalía<o:p></o:p></div>
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On Jan 18, 2018, at 8:43 AM, Timo Võhmar <<a href="mailto:timo.vohmar@internet.ee" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">timo.vohmar@internet.ee</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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Some may know that I represent a bit different view on things than Alexander<o:p></o:p></div>
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We do not need to do anything ie reserve anything to anyone and least of all does the rfc say anything about that. The RFC sets out closed list of what is generic tld and we know that has not been true for a long time. So what we have here in case of two letters
is just an agreement between different communities saying that all two letter combinations are reserved for use under ccTLD policy. We also have renewed this agreement multiple times and there seems to be no strong demand in changing this. But at the same
time that does not mean that ccTLD cannot be anything else than some two letter combination.<o:p></o:p></div>
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cc in ccTLD stands for country code. Country code can mean any type of label, name, letter combination that represents some country. Unfortunately we do not have community wide agreement on how to treat 3-letter ISO country codes and country names. There is
a demand to make these available for use under ccTLD policy as well as gTLD policy. This need to find a compromise seems to be one of the reasons we have gathered.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Of course the question at hand is wider - anything that represents anything with geographical meaning. And we are here by invitation of gNSO with the new gTLD round in mind but I do believe that it is not possible to change the current status quo disregarding
the interests of countries to protect and develop their identity. One way to separate generics from country codes is who runs the delegation and perhaps on what purpose.<o:p></o:p></div>
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And I would once again like to argue that anyone outside our community has or even should have any notion about meaning of generic and country code TLDs in the ICANNs policy context. It's all about what the TLD stands for ie there are few people that associate
.tv with Tuvalu nor do I see that there could be anything generic about .usa. So we are speaking here about how these TLDs are delegated, regulated and how much control does registry/government have on how to run the TLD. Noone in the real world will get confused
when suddenly there are n letter TLDs given out under ccTLD nor 2 character TLDs under gTLD policy - these are just TLDs. <o:p></o:p></div>
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Lets leave the emotional arguments aside and try to find better solution for geographic terms for the next gTLD round and see if we can find a way to lift the ban from country labels.<o:p></o:p></div>
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Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></div>
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Timo Võhmar<o:p></o:p></div>
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Representing Estonian internet community, government and ccTLD .ee registry<o:p></o:p></div>
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On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 8:12 AM, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">I don't disagree with the idea that all two-letter combinations should be reserved for potential ccTLD use. I thought it was worth raising the question on our recent call so that we could actively test the status
quo on this point. (Also, nobody was speaking up....) It appears that this concept retains broad support.</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">That said, I would like to take Alexander's invitation to correct him if his statements are factually incorrect or illogical. Specifically, it is both factually incorrect and illogical to couch this in terms
of "brands." There's absolutely no basis or evidence for the proposition that brands have a particular interest in or desire for two letter TLDs (or that other applicants have less or more interest or desire). Intentionally or not, using that scenario stirs
up tensions and creates an adversarial atmosphere that could be quite counterproductive. There's no reason to invent a disagreement or rift that doesn't exist. </span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">I would therefore suggest that the LAST thing the ccNSO should do is ask themselves the question posed by Alexander above. There's no good reason to pose that question or to approach this issue in that way, and
there are plenty of good reasons not to do so.</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Instead, we should approach this as one point on which we have broad support from all sectors, including many from the brand community.</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Greg</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Alexander Schubert <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">alexander@schubert.berlin</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I think the two character TLD question is rather simplistic:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol;">·</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">We need to reserve ALL two letter combinations
– RFP 1591 says so. Or we need to revise RFC 1591: GOOD LUCK with that one! Easier to revise the Bible – or the Bill of Rights!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol;">·</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">We can’t assign two number combinations as
they could be confused with IP addresses: Example 4<sup>th</sup><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>level domain “44.33.22.11” based on the gTLD “.11”!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol;">·</span><span style="font-size: 7pt;"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">What remains are number-letter combinations!
That’s 2 times 10 numbers by 26 letters = 520 combinations. With almost NONE of them really desirable for anybody. The rare desirable ones would be likely BRANDS, such as “.3m” (<a href="http://3m.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">3m.com</span></a>)
or “.f1” (<a href="http://f1.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">f1.com</span></a>). How many would that be? A dozen?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On the other hand: Outside of the U.S. (96% of the world population is non-American) EVERYBODY knows that a two letter TLD is “something different”. And that is the one and only distinction the
ccNSO world owns: they are the arbiters of the two character namespace on the top-level! Two-characters = ccTLD. Everything else = gTLD.</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If I were the ccNSO I would ask myself: Just so that a handful of brands COULD (and nobody knows IF they WOULD want) grab a two character number-letter gTLD: do we have to give up the old order?
As ccNSO member and as GAC member I would clearly draw a line here and say: “NO WAY”. 2 characters is the namespace-characterization of the ccNSO (even when they only use two letter combinations). Outside of the U.S. it would very much confuse the Internet
User if suddenly SOME 2-character were gTLDs – or 3-letter TLDs were ccTLDs. That would destroy the old order.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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If this is factual incorrect or illogical: please correct me. If you support this notion: please voice your support!</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
[mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Heather Forrest<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, January 17, 2018 8:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conclusion of CWG-UCTN on 2-character codes</span><o:p></o:p></div>
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Dear colleagues,<o:p></o:p></div>
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Following up on Jeff's reference at the end of the WT5 call ended just now to the conclusions of the Cross-Community WG on the Use of Country and Territory Names (CWG-UCTN)- <o:p></o:p></div>
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The conclusion of the CWG-UCTN on 2-character codes, and the rationale for that conclusion, was:<o:p></o:p></div>
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"The CWG recommends that the existing ICANN policy of reserving 2-letter codes for ccTLDs should be maintained, primarily on the basis of the reliance of this policy, consistent with RFC 1591, on a standard established and maintained independently of and external
to ICANN and widely adopted in contexts outside of the DNS (ISO 3166-1)."<o:p></o:p></div>
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Full report here: <a href="https://ccnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/field-attached/ccwg-ctn-final-paper-15jun17-en.pdf" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: purple;">https://ccnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/field-attached/ccwg-ctn-final-paper-15jun17-en.pdf</span></a><o:p></o:p></div>
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Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></div>
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Heather Forrest<o:p></o:p></div>
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