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<p>Yes, cities can have long history in older cultures -- wars were
fought and people died over them.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In Canada, municipal governments are subdivisions of their
province. While they have autonomy on most decisions, all by-laws
passed are subject to change by the provincial government at any
time. So cities exist at the pleasure of the provincial
governments. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Leaves one to wonder if the province could deny the city the
right to it's TLD.<span class="moz-smiley-s2"><span>:-(</span></span>
This is a pretty slippery slope......<br>
</p>
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<p>Marita<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/2/2018 11:17 AM, Yrjö Länsipuro
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB5PR10MB0118FDF2AB693D00AB3766B7FF800@DB5PR10MB0118.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Dear all,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Cities have been
founded, incorporated and given various privileges - including
their names - in the course of history by kings and emperors
and other assorted authorities, and in my non-lawyer´s
mind, documents attesting to those acts, scribbled on
parchment or whatever, are the legal basis. More important,
from end-users´ point of view, is the political ownership felt
by the citizens.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">For reference, attached
please find an excerpt of the founding document of my home
city Tampere/Tammerfors in 1779, signed by king Gustaf III.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Best,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Yrjö<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><img size="0"
contenttype="image/png" style="max-width: 99.9%;"
id="img228568" tabindex="0"
src="cid:part1.EF21F1CA.2F543B1D@ca.inter.net" class=""><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"><gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org></a> on behalf of
Alexander Schubert <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"><alexander@schubert.berlin></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 2, 2018 5:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call:
city names</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="x_WordSection1">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear Greg,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">You write:
<br>
<b><i><span style="color:#1F4E79">“…..but a
‘first right’ based on a geographic name is
troublesome on several levels. But one
fundamental question jumps out -- what right is
this first right based on?”</span></i></b><br>
<br>
If we talk about sizeable (or otherwise “important”)
cities:</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Nobody has
a “first right” obviously. Why should anybody. But if
a string is (should be) poised to serve as identifier
for a sizeable amount of people (e.g. larger cities) –
I think we do not have to search for “international
law”; it should be self-evident that such an
infrastructure resource like a city-gTLD is NOT
assigned lightly to “some entity” – but that the
representatives of the city are looped in. There is
morality and a “sense of common good” OUTSIDE of
established law. At least in Good Old Europe.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">But I
completely agree with you if we talk about “minor”
geographical entities – such as a small stream or a
hill. Or a tiny dwelling somewhere in the nowhere.
Especially if there is an entity that is MUCH better
known to the public (e.g. a well-known brand vs. a
small mountain) or if it is identical to a generic
term: “.new” and the New River.<br>
<br>
The big question is: How do we policy the line that
separates the entities that deserve “protection” from
the rest? A repository? Lists of any sort? Population
size? Or maybe a panel that decides case by case
(caution: Beauty contest alarm)? But having no
protections at all is not going to work. To LOWER the
already low bar is bonkers in my mind. I wish GAC
would pay more attention – there are forces trying to
take away DNS infrastructure from The People.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Alexander.berlin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 02, 2018 7:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Cake <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"><dave@davecake.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> leonard obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"><gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
find myself generally in agreement with Liz
Williams. There are more nuances to unpack than I
have time for, but a "first right" based on a
geographic name is troublesome on several levels.
But one fundamental question jumps out -- what
right is this first right based on? Is there a
legal basis for this? (Jorge tells us that his
government would make a decision "based on law",
so it would be useful to know what law we're
talking about.) Requiring a "letter of support or
non-objection" is also troublesome and not just
for the reasons Liz mentions. (I hope we do not
have to pore through each of the letters of
support/non-objection from the first round to
highlight the problems they cause, but if we are
going to, this should be a job for the WG as a
whole, not an assignment for Liz.) I recognize
that, as Jorge say, it "works well for
governments." Well, of course it does! It
completely favors governments, and was imposed by
governments (i.e., the GAC). The problem is that
it doesn't work well for anyone else, and it is
not well-grounded in the rule of law (unless we
are thinking of something akin to the
<i>droit de seigneur</i>, or perhaps the Divine
Right of Kings).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
don't know if I'll be able to be on any part of
the call starting shortly, since it is running
from 1-2:30 am my time, and I don't do well on 4
hours of sleep.... If am not, please accept my
apologies.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:48
PM, David Cake <<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net" target="_blank"
id="LPlnk141392" class="OWAAutoLink"
previewremoved="true" moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="border:none; border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt; padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Perth is not even unique
within Australia, there is a small town in
Tasmania. But the point about ambiguity
remaining even if we restrict it to concepts
like ‘capital’ is a very good one. </p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">David (resident of the
Western Australian Perth)</p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;
margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">On 30 Apr 2018,
at 1:18 pm, Liz Williams <<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" id="LPlnk197662"
class="OWAAutoLink"
previewremoved="true"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Hello
everyone </p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">I wanted to
start a new thread of
conversation about city names
ahead of our upcoming conference
call. We are being encouraged
by our co-chairs to think about
city names as TLDs. The first
point is, perhaps, to recognise
the “success” of some previous
city TLDs including Berlin,
Paris, NYC and so on. Those
applications went through very
specific requirements for
evaluation and, now, hopefully
serve the requirements of local
communities. We should hope
that, in any new round, the
experiences of those cities will
ease the way for future
applications because we have
learnt something about how and
why applicants apply for place
names (and I use the word place
deliberately) as top level
domain labels.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">For our
next round of policy
recommendations I wanted to use
an example which I think
highlights the difficulties we
face if we are prescriptive and
limited in our analysis.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Most of us
know that Perth is the capital
city of Western Australia. It
is not the capital city of
Australia as Canberra has that
honour. Relying on a “is the
word a capital city” question is
fraught with difficulty. It is
difficult because Perth,
Scotland, has at a bare minimum
had city status since the 12th
century, far longer than Perth,
Australia which also has an
indigenous place name, its
colonial name and a migrant
demographic where the largest
majority of Perth residents come
from England. Things are
complicated by the existence of
Perth in Canada which, in its
own right, has some features of
a capital and, at the very
least, some important historic
linkages.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">And then we
turn to the generic words which
Jon Nevett highlighted in a
previous post (Bath, Save, New)
which are also place names.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">That leads
us to what can we usefully and
objectively recommend as
treatment of other names which
are also linked to places and
how those could be treated as
top level domains. As a
starting point, my
recommendation would be that we
don’t have any special treatment
for place names as TLDs and that
applicants for those names would
be evaluated against other
business and technical criteria
just like another application.
However, we might want to think
about better ways of handling an
objection. Those objections,
from whatever quarter, need to
be treated in exactly the same
way. I don’t recommend “letters
of support or non-objection”.
They are too subjective, fraught
with movable political nuance
and, in some cases, deeply
sensitive geo-political facts
(using Jerusalem as the
example).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">I look
forward to hearing the views of
others.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Liz</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Avenir">….<br>
Dr Liz Williams |
International Affairs<br>
.au Domain Administration
Ltd<br>
M: +61 436 020 595 | +44
7824 877757<br>
E: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank"
id="LPlnk203012"
class="OWAAutoLink"
previewremoved="true"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a> <a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank" id="LPlnk692936"
class="OWAAutoLink"
previewremoved="true"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.auda.org.au</a><br>
<br>
Important Notice<br>
This email may
contain information which
is confidential and/or
subject to legal privilege,
and is intended for the use
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If you are not the intended
recipient, you must not use,
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by mistake, please notify
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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