<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Robin, Jorge, All,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your thoughtful comments. The mail-list has been very interesting and enlightening today, and in previous days also. As discussed in the last call, all these threads have been and will continue to be incorporated in a document to memorialize them and try and find ways forward from a policy perspective.</div><div><br></div><div>Robin, what could be a practicable alternative or general way forward to change the current “non-objection” scheme, which somehow takes into account all these competing public and private interests?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,<br><br><div>Javier Rúa-Jovet</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">ALAC<br><div><br></div><div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">+1-787-396-6511</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">twitter: @javrua</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">skype: javier.rua1</span></div><div><font color="#000000" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua</a> </font></div><div><br></div></div></div><div><br>On May 4, 2018, at 2:22 PM, Robin Gross <<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Dear Jorge,</span><br><span></span><br><span>But this really isn’t about “getting at a table” with equals, this is a policy which gives one party the unilateral veto right over all others for a TLD. Which means the applicant has to go begging to the govt(s) for a non-objection letter. Of course "nothing gets you nothing” in this world, so the govt is now empowered to extract conditions, including possibly payments from the applicant in order to obtain that letter permitting the TLD to proceed. Even in cases where the TLD is not going to be used to refer to the geo meaning or to misrepresent a connection to the term, that letter is required. No doubt govts want to require as many people as possible must "get at the table" since that means more people must pay govts for TLDs to go forward. The more one looks at it, it appears the non-objection letter is a type of "extortion scheme" for TLDs, bad policy for a free and open Internet. And the policy wasn’t something that the GNSO actually approved in the last round. It was one of those post-approval board-staff "implementation details" that went off the rails due to intense govt pressure to ignore the GNSO-approved policy on the issue and give govts more power at ICANN anyway. The policy must be reconsidered for both of these reasons.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Best,</span><br><span>Robin</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>On May 4, 2018, at 10:18 AM, <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>> <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hi Jon</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I cannot speak for all 2000+ cities in Switzerland ;-)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>They have rights on their name but I guess that getting at a table with them would be fruitful.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Jon Nevett <<a href="mailto:jon@donuts.email">jon@donuts.email</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Datum: 4. Mai 2018 um 19:00:29 MESZ</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a> <<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a> <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>, <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a> <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Do you think that applicant should have to talk to the city and get a non-objection letter if the applicant was not using the TLD in a way at all related to the city? I don't have a problem with letters of non-objection in cases where the TLD is being targeted to the city population itself, but not in every instance. For example, in the case of Arch, Switzerland, do you think that the Swiss municipality should have veto rights on whether a group of architects could secure .ARCH to collect and display photos of interesting arches around the world or whether the Arch Insurance Co in New Jersey, US should be able to have a TLD for its network of brokers?</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thanks.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jon</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On May 4, 2018, at 12:48 PM, <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>> <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Paul</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>That is probably a strange way of seeing things. The brand holder would have only an interest worth protecting if the string is used by someone else in commerce, in the same category of product or service, and consumer confusion is at stake.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The city under Swiss law has a right to sue against the use of its name, without such strings attached, i.e. it is a more ample right.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But again, what is key here is that the applicant needs to talk to the city with that very name and get at least its non-objection. Everything else is an invitation for protracted conflicts as we have seen in some cases NOT subject to this instrument...</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Paul Rosenzweig <<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Datum: 4. Mai 2018 um 18:04:30 MESZ</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>, <a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>, <a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Yes, I understand the difference. But what gives one priority over the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>other. You are, in effect, arguing that the civil code of Switzerland</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>should take precedence in our judgment to the trademark code of Great</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Britain, say. Indeed, to my mind the narrower more focused right should</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>generally be thought of as taking precedence since it is less limiting of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>others.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul Rosenzweig</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>M: +1 (202) 329-9650</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>> <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Friday, May</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>;</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Paul</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The difference, being simple, is that a trademark gives you a limited</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>protection regarding a term for certain products and services, when there</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>might be a confusion for consumers (Nick from Nominet explained it much</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>better).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The right under the civil code on the name of a city is general in its</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>scope, not limited to commercial issues, not limited to specific products</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and services and not focused on consumer protection.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Paul Rosenzweig <<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Datum: 4. Mai 2018 um 17:27:55 MESZ</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>, <a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Why is it qualitatively different? And if it is qualitatively different</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>what body of law gives one type of right priority over another?</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul Rosenzweig</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>M: +1 (202) 329-9650</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>> On Behalf</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Of <a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 10:54 AM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Luzern has a right on the name as such under civil right, which is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>qualitatively different.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Datum: 4. Mai 2018 um 16:44:19 MESZ</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: <a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>> <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>> <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Alexander,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>You seem to be confusing how patents work and how trademarks work. Patents</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>can accurately be characterized as a “right to exclude.” Trademarks cannot.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The company has positive rights in LUCERNE.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>When enforcing that trademark, the owners of LUCERNE can seek to stop use or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>registration of a mark that raises a “likelihood of confusion” — basically,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the same or similar mark for the same or related goods and services, and for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>goods and services in the “natural zone of expansion.” I’m not saying they</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>have the right to stop EVERYBODY nor should they, but then again, neither</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>should Luzern.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 10:31 AM Alexander Schubert</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Lucerne Foods, Inc. (an American legal entity) might have acquired trade</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>mark rights in the United States of America – but NOT for “LUCERNE”! The</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>trade mark protection prevents the commercial usage of the trade-marked</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>string “lucerne” - FOR A VERY NARROW SELECTION OF SERVICES AND GOODS. It’s</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>rather the services and goods that you protect – FOR a certain string. The</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>string itself is free to use by anybody for everything (minus the few goods</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and services trade-marked).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>And nobody says that “governments think the rights of governments come</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>first” – it is THE PEOPLE who come first of course – and Governments are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>merely representing them.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Alexander</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bou</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nces@icann.org">nces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nces@icann.org">mailto:nces@icann.org</a>>>] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 9:08 AM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Of course Lucerne Foods has a right on Lucerne. More precisely, they have</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>legitimate interests in and a legal right to Lucerne. And they have</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>trademark registrations for LUCERNE. As with any registration they specify</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>goods and services. That doesn’t make their rights less valid.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Can you clarify if you believe that the hypothetical applicant for .sandwich</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>should be required to get letters of support or nonobjective from Sandwich,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mass and Sandwich, England? Thank you.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 1:43 AM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thanks for your reply. “Lucerne Foods” has no right on “Lucerne” – it most</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>probably just has a trademark for “lucerne foods” in very specific</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>categories of products and services (food related I guess).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In Switzerland (“Lucerne” as such) would in fact be barred from registration</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>as a business name (as I have said). And the city of Lucerne has a right on</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>its name pursuant 29 Civil Code, so it has clearly a good legal ground to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>challenge the delegation of the unique resource “.lucerne”.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But beyond the Swiss legal system, the delegation of the unique resource</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>which is a city’s name will give rise to political sensitivities, whatever</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the “intended use”. You need that city government on board. Otherwise you</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>will have a political problem – which is quite natural as city governments</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>have responsibilities, and the name of their city is their main identifier.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Greg Shatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>]</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Mai 2018 07:36</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Liz Williams</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>>; Icann Gnso</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Newgtld Wg Wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Uniqueness does not convey primacy upon governments.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>TLDs may be unique, but that does not mean that governments should get a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Trump Card" to block any use of a string with (among other things) a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>geographic meaning. I can understand why governments think the rights of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>governments come first, but that's not going to get us very far.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Use" is absolutely important -- it goes to whether a legitimate right is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>being exercised or infringed.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>If Lucerne Foods</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>(<http://><a href="http://www.lucernefoods.com">www.lucernefoods.com</a><<a href="http://www.lucernefoods.com/">http://www.lucernefoods.com/</a>><<a href="http://www.lucernefoods.com<http://www.lucernefoods.com/><http://www.lucernefoods.co<http://www.lucernefoods.co/>">http://www.lucernefoods.com<http://www.lucernefoods.com/><http://www.lucernefoods.co<http://www.lucernefoods.co/></a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>m<<a href="http://www.lucernefoods.com<http://www.lucernefoods.com/>>">http://www.lucernefoods.com<http://www.lucernefoods.com/>></a>>), one of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the world's largest food producers, wants to apply for .lucerne, they should</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>have the right to do so, without interference from Luzern. (I assume they</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>have <a href="http://lucernefoods.com">lucernefoods.com</a><<a href="http://lucernefoods.com/">http://lucernefoods.com/</a>><<a href="http://lucernefoods.com<http://lucernefoods.com/>">http://lucernefoods.com<http://lucernefoods.com/></a>> because</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.lucerne.com">www.lucerne.com</a><<a href="http://www.lucerne.com/">http://www.lucerne.com/</a>><<a href="http://www.lucerne.com<http://www.lucerne.com/>">http://www.lucerne.com<http://www.lucerne.com/></a>> was already taken.)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best regards,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 1:23 AM,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Greg and all,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>„Sandwich“ may be a nice example, but fact is that, as I explained, the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>“use” is not really important, as we only have one string with that city</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>name – TLDs are unique.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Therefore, whatever the intended use (a can of worms on its own btw), the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>unique TLD with the “city name” would be delegated. Think on “.shanghai”</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>delegated for a “non geo-use”. Who would say that would have no</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>implications, that would not arise no political sensitivities?</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But getting back to my country, if “.luzern” were to be applied for,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>intending a “non-geo use”, I would very well understand that this would</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>bring about not only political issues but also legal challenges in our</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>country (based on Art. 29 civil code).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>All this is avoided if you acknowledge the facts (TLDs are unique and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>political sensitivities are there) and try to put everyone at the table. The</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>non-objection letter does that. It may be improved, based on factual issues</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>detected in the 2012 round – btw: we should of course consult all parties in</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>those issues and get first-hand information from the applicants and public</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>authorities involved – just basing our analysis on hearsay, opinions or</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>third-party reports would not be appropriate (Greg, you will remember that</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>in the “jurisdiction Subgroup” of the CCWG Accountability we followed the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>same path of only looking at first hand evidence…).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best regards</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Greg Shatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>]</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Mai 2018 07:07</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="http://kom.admin.ch<http://kom.admin.ch/>>">http://kom.admin.ch<http://kom.admin.ch/>></a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Liz Williams</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>>; Icann Gnso</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Newgtld Wg Wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The burden of non-objection is "fairly" put on the applicant (if at all)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>only if the intended use of the gTLD is as a "geo TLD." If the applied-for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>string is going to be used for other purposes, there should be no</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>opportunity for a non-applicant to block an application. (If the "place" is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>another applicant, that's an entirely different situation that I am not</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>covering in this email.)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Consider an application for .sandwich as a gTLD geared toward domains for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>sandwich restaurants, sandwich recipe sites, sandwich fans, sandwich</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>historians, sellers of sandwich ingredients (meats, cheeses, breads,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>condiments, etc.) or sandwich implements (panini presses, toaster ovens,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>etc.). Sandwich, England and Sandwich, Mass. (and the Earl of Sandwich)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>should have no say in the matter.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This is analogous to the treatment of brands. If Delta Faucets applies for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>.Delta, Delta Van Lines has no basis for an objection -- because Delta</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Faucets has a legitimate right. Delta Van Lines option is to apply or not</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to apply (even if it is only a "defensive application"). This is a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>practical and time-tested model that we should use for strings with</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>geographic and other meanings, at least where the gTLDs use is not as a "geo</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>TLD".</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 12:56 AM,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Liz</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The burden to obtain the non-objection is fairly put on the applicant, who</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>has, as you also say, a direct interest in avoiding objections.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The city governments of this world (we have 2000+ in tiny Switzerland),</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>whose name is applied to by an applicant in a widely unknown setting which</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>is ICANN cannot be expected to be privy to such procedures and to be</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>monitoring the rounds of applications. This is of course much more difficult</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>for developing and large countries, whose cities may realize one day that</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>their name was taken as a TLD in a process they did not know, because they</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>did not „object“.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To the larger point: you argue/assert that the non-objection letter should</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>not be continued. Alas you have produced no factual basis that would warrant</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that, beyond one case (africa) where the problems were of an unrelated</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>character, another (amazon) that did NOT fall under the non objection rule,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>which leaves us with one case (tata) where issues may be analyzed and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>addressed without changing the system and putting the incentive structure</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>completely upside-down.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>More broadly speaking, ICANN cannot just ignore the political sensitivities,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>which are backed by different policies, laws etc. depending on the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>corresponding country. You need their representatives at the table and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>non-objecting if you want to avoid protracted issues. These kinds of issues</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>only would grow if you gerrymander those public authorities out of the game.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>best regards</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Liz Williams</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Datum: 4. Mai 2018 um 00:48:00 MESZ</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: leonard obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hello everyone</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This thread has brought out some really interesting ideas. I may have a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>simpler solution because what we are really talking about, in many cases, is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>backward looking difficult history from which we need to move on. We should</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>not be satisfied with a 2007 policy and a 2012 implementation if it</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>continues to “allow” bad policy to chase “poor” implementation.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I may have a solution though because what we are essentially talking about</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>also is how a interested stakeholder can express “objection” to something.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I would like to see the end of the “non-objection” process all together, for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>reasons explained in other posts. However, “objecting to an application" is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>still a legitimate course of action for someone to take if they don’t want</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>something to happen. Here are the steps.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>1. If you support something, say so. This is really up to an applicant to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>do the footwork to demonstrate in an application that this has taken place.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>We can then think on implementation elements of what that could look like.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>2. If you don’t object to something, allow it to happen. If you change</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>your mind, you must do it within agreed strict time parameters see point 3.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>(Non-Objection letters will be a thing of the past).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>3. If you do object, make an appropriately framed objection whoever you</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>are. Within that objection process, refer to international law, domestic</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>law, ISO standards and so on that are relevant to the applicant & the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>application. This takes out the endless discussion here about what should</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>be referred to which causes such trouble.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The applicant takes responsibility for ensuring that they submit an</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>application which addresses those points and avoids an objection (all</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>applicants are highly motivated to avoid objections). An objector must use</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>those standards; pay for making the objection and submit it within</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>appropriate time frames. Evaluators then take those objections into account</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>in evaluation. An objector (whoever they are) must accept that their</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>objection may be discarded by evaluators.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Then we can close off the endless circular differences between jurisdictions</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and we focus on the real work that takes place for an applicant in an</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>application process.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I look forward to hearing more from colleagues because this could apply to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>a) any application and b) geographic terms in particular. Our policy</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>recommendation then comes around to open process, objective criteria,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>assumption of compliance with law, competition and innovation. The points</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>above are then implementation guidelines that improve an AGB.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Liz</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>….</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dr Liz Williams | International Affairs</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>.au Domain Administration Ltd</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>M: +61 436 020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>E:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mailto:liz.william</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:s@auda.org.au">s@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:s@auda.org.au">mailto:s@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.auda.org.au">www.auda.org.au</a><<a href="http://www.auda.org.au">http://www.auda.org.au</a>><<a href="http://www.auda.org.au">http://www.auda.org.au</a>><<a href="http://www.auda.org.au">http://www.auda.org.au</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Important Notice</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>notify the sender and delete this message immediately.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 4 May 2018, at 4:50 am, Mike Rodenbaugh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Maybe Staff can help compile any such laws and cases related to domains? We</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>should deal with concrete examples, as I have given re 4 TLD applications</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>from the last round.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mike Rodenbaugh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>RODENBAUGH LAW</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://rodenbaugh.com<http://rodenbaugh.com/>">http://rodenbaugh.com<http://rodenbaugh.com/></a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:32 AM,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Mike</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>There are similar laws in other countries. For Switzerland you can look it</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>up online quite easily (in various languages). There is case-law but I guess</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the court decisions will be in German and French.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Besides, limits to register solely city names and other geographic terms as</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>such as trademarks or business names are also common...</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On the other hand, as said before, rights on brands are limited to specific</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>categories of products and services...</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In the end, as said, you have different interests converging on a single</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>string, where in our opinion the public interest is paramount.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Mike Rodenbaugh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Datum: 3. Mai 2018 um 19:26:08 MESZ</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Gregory S. Shatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><mailto:gregshatanip</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:c@gmail.com">c@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:c@gmail.com">mailto:c@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>>,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to:<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="http://ca.inter.net">http://ca.inter.net</a>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mai</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>lto:<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="http://ca.inter.net">http://ca.inter.net</a>>>>>,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I would like to see the text of such laws, and any cases that apply them to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>domain names. I guess there might be one in France too, but I haven't dug</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>into the particulars of the French legal proceedings re</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://France.com">France.com</a><<a href="http://France.com">http://France.com</a>><<a href="http://France.com">http://France.com</a>>.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mike Rodenbaugh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>RODENBAUGH LAW</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://rodenbaugh.com<http://rodenbaugh.com/>">http://rodenbaugh.com<http://rodenbaugh.com/></a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:19 AM,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><mailto:Jorge.Ca</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">http://bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Mike</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I mentioned some, eg in Switzerland cities have rights to protect their</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>names under the civil code (art. 29), and provisions prevent the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>registration of business names and trademarks that solely consist of city</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>names.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>best</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Mike Rodenbaugh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:mike@rodenbau</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://gh.com">gh.com</a><<a href="http://gh.com">http://gh.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Datum: 3. Mai 2018 um 19:06:27 MESZ</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><mailto:Jorge.Ca</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">http://bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Gregory S. Shatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><mailto:gregshatanip</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:c@gmail.com">c@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:c@gmail.com">mailto:c@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:gregsh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:atanipc@gmail.com">atanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:atanipc@gmail.com">mailto:atanipc@gmail.com</a>>>>>>,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to:<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="http://ca.inter.net">http://ca.inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mai</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>lto:<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="http://ca.inter.net">http://ca.inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>>>,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge, what law provides for governments to claim superior rights to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>geographic (or any other) domain names? I am not aware of any, so am eager</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to be enlightened if they exist.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thanks,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mike</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mike Rodenbaugh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>RODENBAUGH LAW</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://rodenbaugh.com<http://rodenbaugh.com/>">http://rodenbaugh.com<http://rodenbaugh.com/></a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:49 AM,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><mailto:Jorge.Ca</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">http://bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bak</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://om.admin.ch">om.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://om.admin.ch">http://om.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.ad">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.ad</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://min.ch">min.ch</a><<a href="http://min.ch">http://min.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin</a>.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ch<<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><ma</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ilto:<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">http://bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Mike</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thanks for your input.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In the end we have different bodies, entities etc. holding interests on one</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>single string. In our view (Swiss perspective), public interest provides for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>clear limits to private monopolization over geographic names such as city</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>names – this is reflected in law.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best regards</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Mike Rodenbaugh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><mailto:mike@rodenbau</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://gh.com">gh.com</a><<a href="http://gh.com">http://gh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:mike@r</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://odenbaugh.com">odenbaugh.com</a><<a href="http://odenbaugh.com">http://odenbaugh.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>>><mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to:<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a href="http://rodenbaugh.com">http://rodenbaugh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.co">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.co</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>m<<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:mike@rodenb</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://augh.com">augh.com</a><<a href="http://augh.com">http://augh.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>>>>]</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Mai 2018 09:49</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><mailto:Jorge.Ca</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">http://bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bak</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://om.admin.ch">om.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://om.admin.ch">http://om.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.ad">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.ad</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://min.ch">min.ch</a><<a href="http://min.ch">http://min.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin</a>.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ch<<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><ma</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ilto:<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">http://bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Gregory S. Shatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><mailto:gregshatanip</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:c@gmail.com">c@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:c@gmail.com">mailto:c@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:gregsh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:atanipc@gmail.com">atanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:atanipc@gmail.com">mailto:atanipc@gmail.com</a>>>>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:gregshatanipc@gma</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://il.com">il.com</a><<a href="http://il.com">http://il.com</a>>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>><mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="http://gmail.com">http://gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><mailto:gregshatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ipc@gmail.com">ipc@gmail.com</a><<a href="mailto:ipc@gmail.com">mailto:ipc@gmail.com</a>><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>>>>;</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to:<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="http://ca.inter.net">http://ca.inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inte">mailto:mmoll@ca.inte</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://r.net">r.net</a><<a href="http://r.net">http://r.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.i">mailto:mmoll@ca.i</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://nter.net">nter.net</a><<a href="http://nter.net">http://nter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:mmoll</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>@ca.inter.net<<a href="http://ca.inter.net">http://ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>>>;</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:gns</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Governments also have infinite, obvious alternatives to <.city> TLDs, such</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>as <.citygovernment>, <.citycouncil>, <.citytourism>, etc. Perhaps</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>surprisingly, governments have managed to survive for the past 30 years even</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>though they have not had the legal the right to "their"</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="http://city.com">city.com</a><<a href="http://city.com">http://city.com</a>><<a href="http://city.com">http://city.com</a>><<a href="http://city.com/">http://city.com/</a>><<a href="http://city.com">http://city.com</a><<a href="http://city.com">http://city.com</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>/>><<a href="http://city.com<http://city.com/>>">http://city.com<http://city.com/>></a>> or even <city.ccTLD> second level</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>domain names. They still have no such legal right at any level of the DNS.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Some governments' fantasy to own such rights is just that, fantasy.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To be sure, ICANN is not the proper body to grant governments such a right.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But unfortunately, ICANN went far too far in the last round kowtowing to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>governments, and requiring the "non-objection" letter. That led to outright</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>extortion by such well known geographic areas as SPA and BAR, among others,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>who had nothing more that a fantasy to control TLD rights to that name, plus</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ICANN's ill-advised, non-community-consensus requirement of the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>non-objection letter. As I recall (and I could be wrong and will eat my</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>shoe), that was an ICANN Staff implementation gift, not part of the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>consensus policy passed by GNSO and the Board. Even if it was, it was</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ill-advised then, and should be eliminated for future rounds.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Country codes have been given special status in the DNS with ccTLDs and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>correspondent restrictions at the second level of the New gTLDs. That was</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>an original gift to national governments, extended stupidly to the second</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>level by ICANN in the last round, solely to appease government</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>obstructionists in that last round. Subsidiary governments need to get over</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>this; they don't have further rights to "their" name in the DNS. Period.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paris, France has no greater rights to .PARIS than Paris, Texas. Or Paris</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hilton. Period. But I would love to hear them fight out that issue. ICANN</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>certainly should not have predetermined it in favor of France or Texas, to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the detriment of Ms. Hilton (and so many other legitimate users of the word</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paris). All three of those parties (at least) had equal rights to that TLD,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and should have been put into a contention set to resolve it.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In substantial part, governments continue to rehash arguments made by IGOs</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>in the various IGO Names policy discussions. Those IGOs get nowhere with</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the broader GNSO community because they only have fantasy rights to "their"</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>names (in many cases) and acronyms (in almost all cases). So they scream to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the Board and have delayed finality in those discussions for half a decade</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>already. But the GNSO is never going to agree with them, and the GNSO has</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>primary TLD policy responsibility under the Bylaws, not the GAC.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Eventually, the Board must side with the GNSO, though they will put that off</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>forever if they can, as they have done with IGO Names issues.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This GNSO group ought not be considering government pressure or fantasy</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>rights. If the Board wants to do so, that is their prerogative. We need to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>develop policy in the real world, where governments coexist with businesses</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and other users of "their" names. They have done so for 30 years. I am</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>confident in stating that not a single government has fallen, nor even been</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>harmed, by the ability of absolutely anyone to register "their" name at the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>second level or at the top level. Until any such harm is shown, why are we</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>even discussing this? What problem are we trying to solve, exactly?</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mike Rodenbaugh</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>RODENBAUGH LAW</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://rodenbaugh.com<http://rodenbaugh.com/>">http://rodenbaugh.com<http://rodenbaugh.com/></a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:28 PM,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:e.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><mailto:Jorge.Ca</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:ncio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">http://bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bak</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://om.admin.ch">om.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://om.admin.ch">http://om.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.ad">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.ad</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://min.ch">min.ch</a><<a href="http://min.ch">http://min.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin</a>.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ch<<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><ma</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ilto:<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a href="http://bakom.admin.ch">http://bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear all</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The fundamental flaw with such an approach is that it forgets that TLDs are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>unique. There can be only one TLD with a given city name. there can be only</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>one delegation of such a string.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>City governments have political, social, historical, economic and legal</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>responsibilities over their cities, and have (at least in Switzerland and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>other countries) rights on the names of their cities. There might be several</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>cities with the same name, but under the 2012 AGB you had to obtain the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>non-objection from all of them if that was the case.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>As for brands there may be unlimited numbers of business names and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>trademarks that use a given city name, usually as part of their names (e.g.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>City “insurances”, City “salami”, City “whatever”…) and with figurative</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>elements beyond the name as such (the color, the font, symbols, etc.). For</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>instance in Switzerland you are not allowed to register a city name as such</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>as a business name – because this would mean that a private business is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>monopolizing that geographic name.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hence the crux, resolved in 2012 by the non-objection letter, was that</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>several interests (public interests of a wide spectrum represented by the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>cities, community interests and multiple commercial interests in the form of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>brands) may converge on one string, one city name, one TLD.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The non-objection letter was and is in our view a good way to get the more</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>specific interests backing one application to a table with those who</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>represent the corresponding city (and its public policy interests), in order</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to try to arrive at a mutually acceptable solution…</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best regards</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Jorge</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Von: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bou</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nces@icann.org">nces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nces@icann.org">mailto:nces@icann.org</a>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-new</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">gtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bo</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:unces@icann.org">unces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:unces@icann.org">mailto:unces@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:gnso-</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.or">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.or</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>g><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-b</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ounces@icann.org">ounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:ounces@icann.org">mailto:ounces@icann.org</a>>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.o">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.o</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>rg<<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>>>] Im Auftrag von Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Shatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Mai 2018 06:27</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>An: Marita Moll</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mai</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>lto:<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="http://ca.inter.net">http://ca.inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.int">mailto:mmoll@ca.int</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://er.net">er.net</a><<a href="http://er.net">http://er.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:mmoll@ca.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://inter.net">inter.net</a><<a href="http://inter.net">http://inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:mmol</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:l@ca.inter.net">l@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:l@ca.inter.net">mailto:l@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>We need to distinguish between two major groups of potential use cases that</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>arise when there is an application for a string that (among other things) is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>a geographic term:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>1. The Geo Case: The case where a new gTLD applicant want to operate the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>gTLD as a "geographic" TLD (e.g., .berlin, .nyc, .africa) 2. The Non-Geo</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Case: The case where a new gTLD wants to operate the gTLD as something other</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>than a geographic TLD -- a .brand, a generic gTLD, a restricted gTLD (e.g.,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>.tata, .spa, .amazon, .patagonia)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>For the Geo Case, it may be that there are few instances where</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>support/non-objection letters caused problems in the 2012 round. One</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"problem" instance is .africa. One would have to look at the universe of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>cases to determine whether all the rest worked well or not.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>For the Non-Geo Case, it is clear that there were multiple instances where</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>support/non-objection letters or similar exercises of power did cause</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>problems. We can start with all four of the examples I've cited above. I</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>would be curious to know if there were Non-Geo Cases that didn't have</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>problems.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I think we have to consider these use cases separately. The considerations</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that apply when a TLD will be operated as a geo TLD (e.g., Roma for Romans)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>do not apply when the TLD will be operated for other purposes (e.g.,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>.sandwich for a food-related TLD -- Sandwich, MA was incorporated in 1639</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and named after Sandwich, England, which is obviously older). Blending them</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>together just obscures the issues.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Marita Moll</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mai</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>lto:<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="http://ca.inter.net">http://ca.inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.int">mailto:mmoll@ca.int</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://er.net">er.net</a><<a href="http://er.net">http://er.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:mmoll@ca.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://inter.net">inter.net</a><<a href="http://inter.net">http://inter.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:mmol</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:l@ca.inter.net">l@ca.inter.net</a><<a href="mailto:l@ca.inter.net">mailto:l@ca.inter.net</a>><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Yes, cities can have long history in older cultures -- wars were fought and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>people died over them.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In Canada, municipal governments are subdivisions of their province. While</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>they have autonomy on most decisions, all by-laws passed are subject to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>change by the provincial government at any time. So cities exist at the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>pleasure of the provincial governments.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Leaves one to wonder if the province could deny the city the right to it's</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>TLD.:-( This is a pretty slippery slope......</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Marita</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 5/2/2018 11:17 AM, Yrjö Länsipuro wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear all,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cities have been founded, incorporated and given various privileges -</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>including their names - in the course of history by kings and emperors and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>other assorted authorities, and in my non-lawyer´s mind, documents attesting</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to those acts, scribbled on parchment or whatever, are the legal basis. More</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>important, from end-users´ point of view, is the political ownership felt by</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the citizens.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>For reference, attached please find an excerpt of the founding document of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>my home city Tampere/Tammerfors in 1779, signed by king Gustaf III.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Yrjö</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[cid:image001.png@01D3E2D4.C11E9F30]</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@ic</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://ann.org">ann.org</a><<a href="http://ann.org">http://ann.org</a>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-<a href="mailto:wt5-bounces@icann.org">wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>:<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@i</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://cann.org">cann.org</a><<a href="http://cann.org">http://cann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>>><mailto:gnso-newgtl</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:d-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">d-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:d-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:d-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mai</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>lto:<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>@icann.org<<a href="http://icann.org">http://icann.org</a>>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-newgtl</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:d-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">d-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:d-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:d-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mai</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>lto:<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>>>> on behalf of Alexander</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Schubert</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a><mailto:alexander</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>@schubert.berlin>>><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a><mailto:alexander@schube</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>rt.berlin><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>><mailto</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>:<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>><<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 5:16 PM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:gns</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Greg,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>You write:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span> “…..but a ‘first right’ based on a geographic name is troublesome on</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>several levels. But one fundamental question jumps out -- what right is this</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>first right based on?”</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>If we talk about sizeable (or otherwise “important”) cities:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Nobody has a “first right” obviously. Why should anybody. But if a string is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>(should be) poised to serve as identifier for a sizeable amount of people</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>(e.g. larger cities) – I think we do not have to search for “international</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>law”; it should be self-evident that such an infrastructure resource like a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>city-gTLD is NOT assigned lightly to “some entity” – but that the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>representatives of the city are looped in. There is morality and a “sense of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>common good” OUTSIDE of established law. At least in Good Old Europe.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But I completely agree with you if we talk about “minor” geographical</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>entities – such as a small stream or a hill. Or a tiny dwelling somewhere in</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the nowhere. Especially if there is an entity that is MUCH better known to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the public (e.g. a well-known brand vs. a small mountain) or if it is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>identical to a generic term: “.new” and the New River.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The big question is: How do we policy the line that separates the entities</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that deserve “protection” from the rest? A repository? Lists of any sort?</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Population size? Or maybe a panel that decides case by case (caution: Beauty</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>contest alarm)? But having no protections at all is not going to work. To</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>LOWER the already low bar is bonkers in my mind. I wish GAC would pay more</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>attention – there are forces trying to take away DNS infrastructure from The</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>People.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Thanks,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Alexander.berlin</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bou</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nces@icann.org">nces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nces@icann.org">mailto:nces@icann.org</a>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:gnso-new</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">gtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bo</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:unces@icann.org">unces@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:unces@icann.org">mailto:unces@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>>] On Behalf</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Of Greg Shatan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 7:42 AM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: David Cake</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><mailto</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>:<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>><mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to:<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="http://davecake.net">http://davecake.net</a>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>>>>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><m</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ailto:<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="http://davecake.net">http://davecake.net</a>>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: leonard obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>><mailto</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>:<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:g</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I find myself generally in agreement with Liz Williams. There are more</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>nuances to unpack than I have time for, but a "first right" based on a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>geographic name is troublesome on several levels. But one fundamental</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>question jumps out -- what right is this first right based on? Is there a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>legal basis for this? (Jorge tells us that his government would make a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>decision "based on law", so it would be useful to know what law we're</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>talking about.) Requiring a "letter of support or non-objection" is also</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>troublesome and not just for the reasons Liz mentions. (I hope we do not</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>have to pore through each of the letters of support/non-objection from the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>first round to highlight the problems they cause, but if we are going to,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>this should be a job for the WG as a whole, not an assignment for Liz.) I</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>recognize that, as Jorge say, it "works well for governments." Well, of</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>course it does! It completely favors governments, and was imposed by</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>governments (i.e., the GAC). The problem is that it doesn't work well for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>anyone else, and it is not well-grounded in the rule of law (unless we are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>thinking of something akin to the droit de seigneur, or perhaps the Divine</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Right of Kings).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I don't know if I'll be able to be on any part of the call starting shortly,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>since it is running from 1-2:30 am my time, and I don't do well on 4 hours</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>of sleep.... If am not, please accept my apologies.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Greg</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:48 PM, David Cake</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><mailto</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>:<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>><mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to:<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="http://davecake.net">http://davecake.net</a>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>>>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><ma</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ilto:<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="http://davecake.net">http://davecake.net</a>>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>>><</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>><<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a><</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">mailto:dave@davecake.net</a>>>>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Perth is not even unique within Australia, there is a small town in</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Tasmania. But the point about ambiguity remaining even if we restrict it to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>concepts like ‘capital’ is a very good one.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>David (resident of the Western Australian Perth)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 30 Apr 2018, at 1:18 pm, Liz Williams</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mailto:liz.willia</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ms@auda.org.au">ms@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:ms@auda.org.au">mailto:ms@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.or">mailto:liz.williams@auda.or</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://g.au">g.au</a><<a href="http://g.au">http://g.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>:<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>>>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:liz.will</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:iams@auda.org.au">iams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:iams@auda.org.au">mailto:iams@auda.org.au</a>>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.o">mailto:liz.williams@auda.o</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://rg.au">rg.au</a><<a href="http://rg.au">http://rg.au</a>>>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mai</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>lto:<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="http://auda.org.au">http://auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>>>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hello everyone</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I wanted to start a new thread of conversation about city names ahead of our</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>upcoming conference call. We are being encouraged by our co-chairs to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>think about city names as TLDs. The first point is, perhaps, to recognise</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>the “success” of some previous city TLDs including Berlin, Paris, NYC and so</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>on. Those applications went through very specific requirements for</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>evaluation and, now, hopefully serve the requirements of local communities.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>We should hope that, in any new round, the experiences of those cities will</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ease the way for future applications because we have learnt something about</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>how and why applicants apply for place names (and I use the word place</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>deliberately) as top level domain labels.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>For our next round of policy recommendations I wanted to use an example</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>which I think highlights the difficulties we face if we are prescriptive and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>limited in our analysis.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Most of us know that Perth is the capital city of Western Australia. It is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>not the capital city of Australia as Canberra has that honour. Relying on a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>“is the word a capital city” question is fraught with difficulty. It is</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>difficult because Perth, Scotland, has at a bare minimum had city status</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>since the 12th century, far longer than Perth, Australia which also has an</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>indigenous place name, its colonial name and a migrant demographic where the</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>largest majority of Perth residents come from England. Things are</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>complicated by the existence of Perth in Canada which, in its own right, has</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>some features of a capital and, at the very least, some important historic</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>linkages.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>And then we turn to the generic words which Jon Nevett highlighted in a</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>previous post (Bath, Save, New) which are also place names.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>That leads us to what can we usefully and objectively recommend as treatment</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>of other names which are also linked to places and how those could be</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>treated as top level domains. As a starting point, my recommendation would</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>be that we don’t have any special treatment for place names as TLDs and that</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>applicants for those names would be evaluated against other business and</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>technical criteria just like another application. However, we might want to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>think about better ways of handling an objection. Those objections, from</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>whatever quarter, need to be treated in exactly the same way. I don’t</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>recommend “letters of support or non-objection”. They are too subjective,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>fraught with movable political nuance and, in some cases, deeply sensitive</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>geo-political facts (using Jerusalem as the example).</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I look forward to hearing the views of others.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Liz</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>….</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dr Liz Williams | International Affairs</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>.au Domain Administration Ltd</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>M: +61 436 020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>E:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mailto:liz.william</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:s@auda.org.au">s@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:s@auda.org.au">mailto:s@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>.au<<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>>>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:liz.willi</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:ams@auda.org.au">ams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:ams@auda.org.au">mailto:ams@auda.org.au</a>>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.or">mailto:liz.williams@auda.or</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://g.au">g.au</a><<a href="http://g.au">http://g.au</a>>>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mail</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to:<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a href="http://auda.org.au">http://auda.org.au</a>><<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.auda.org.au">www.auda.org.au</a><<a href="http://www.auda.org.au">http://www.auda.org.au</a>><<a href="http://www.auda.org.au">http://www.auda.org.au</a>><<a href="http://www.auda.org.au/">http://www.auda.org.au/</a>><<a href="http://www">http://www</a>.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://auda.org.au">auda.org.au</a><<a href="http://auda.org.au">http://auda.org.au</a>><<a href="http://www.auda.org.au/">http://www.auda.org.au/</a>>><<a href="http://www.auda.org.au/">http://www.auda.org.au/</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Important Notice</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. 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If you have received this email by mistake, please</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>notify the sender and delete this message immediately.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gns</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gns</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gns</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gns</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:Gn</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:so-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:Gns</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:o-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:G</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:nso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>