<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I want to thank
Alexander for so ably expressing a view that I can really
resonate with. Cities are as unique and culturally relevant as
countries -- many of them have been around longer than the countries
they now reside in (Istanbul). Would it be possible to create a
list of cities that are large enough that their names should be
treated as reserved for the use of the people of that city to
identify themselves just as countries do through ccTLD's? Could
we set the conditions that would lead to such a list?
Inevitably, some cities would be excluded and seek inclusion.
But we have to start somewhere.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Marita Moll</font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/5/2018 1:41 PM, Alexander Schubert
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:002d01d3e498$471cad60$d5560820$@schubert.berlin">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.im
{mso-style-name:im;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Robin,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
think you and I share a certain “distain” for regulation
exercised through “Governments”. You write:<br>
<br>
<b><i><span
style="color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%">“It
allows us to focus on whether or not someone is trying
to misrepresent that they speak for a govt when they
don’t, and I think that misrepresentation should be
key in our analysis.”</span></i></b><br>
<br>
You and Greg are seemingly working off the assumption that
somebody wants to help GOVERNMENTS to “protect” their
territories in the DNS. But why don’t you and Greg ever
think about THE PEOPLE? I honestly couldn’t care less about
Governments – but I do care very much and very passionate
about PEOPLE. And we need to make sure that the constituents
of a city are looped into the decision what happens to their
city name in the DNS. In the 2012 AGB this was facilitated
by CITY Governments (NOT national Governments). Forget for a
moment about “Governments” – and root for THE PEOPLE: How to
protect THEM? NOT from “misrepresentation” – but from the
ability to identify themselves through city gTLD domain
names (see the equivalent via ccTLDs).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hence
my proposal to REQUIRE a “community priority application” if
the string is identical to a (“sizeable”) city: I want that
THE PEOPLE in a city are INVOLVED. Not enough to just go to
the major, promise 85% of (diluted) “profits” – and then
blanket the space with hundreds of non-managed city gTLDs
applied for to “just make big bucks”; instead of having
locally managed and promoted CITY initiatives that THRIVE! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Alexander.berlin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Robin Gross<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 04, 2018 7:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"><gregshatanipc@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"><gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On May 3, 2018, at 10:06 PM, Greg
Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
burden of non-objection is "fairly" put on the
applicant (if at all) only if the intended use of
the gTLD is as a "geo TLD." If the applied-for
string is going to be used for other purposes,
there should be no opportunity for a non-applicant
to block an application. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
think Greg’s suggestion to focus on intended use
is a very helpful suggestion for our work. It
allows us to focus on whether or not someone is
trying to misrepresent that they speak for a govt
when they don’t, and I think that
misrepresentation should be key in our analysis.
We don’t want to encourage a misrepresentation,
but we also are obligated to recognize competing
legitimate interests to the same term and in cases
where there is no misrepresentation connected with
the intended use of TLD with geographic meaning,
those applicants should be allowed to go forward,
unless they violate international law on some
other ground.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Robin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On May 3, 2018, at 10:06 PM, Greg
Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
burden of non-objection is "fairly" put on the
applicant (if at all) only if the intended use of
the gTLD is as a "geo TLD." If the applied-for
string is going to be used for other purposes,
there should be no opportunity for a non-applicant
to block an application. (If the "place" is
another applicant, that's an entirely different
situation that I am not covering in this email.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Consider
an application for .sandwich as a gTLD geared
toward domains for sandwich restaurants, sandwich
recipe sites, sandwich fans, sandwich historians,
sellers of sandwich ingredients (meats, cheeses,
breads, condiments, etc.) or sandwich implements
(panini presses, toaster ovens, etc.). Sandwich,
England and Sandwich, Mass. (and the Earl of
Sandwich) should have no say in the matter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This
is analogous to the treatment of brands. If Delta
Faucets applies for .Delta, Delta Van Lines has no
basis for an objection -- because Delta Faucets
has a legitimate right. Delta Van Lines option is
to apply or not to apply (even if it is only a
"defensive application"). This is a practical and
time-tested model that we should use for strings
with geographic and other meanings, at least where
the gTLDs use is not as a "geo TLD".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 12:56 AM,
<<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Liz<br>
<br>
The burden to obtain the non-objection is fairly
put on the applicant, who has, as you also say, a
direct interest in avoiding objections.<br>
<br>
The city governments of this world (we have 2000+
in tiny Switzerland), whose name is applied to by
an applicant in a widely unknown setting which is
ICANN cannot be expected to be privy to such
procedures and to be monitoring the rounds of
applications. This is of course much more
difficult for developing and large countries,
whose cities may realize one day that their name
was taken as a TLD in a process they did not know,
because they did not „object“.<br>
<br>
To the larger point: you argue/assert that the
non-objection letter should not be continued. Alas
you have produced no factual basis that would
warrant that, beyond one case (africa) where the
problems were of an unrelated character, another
(amazon) that did NOT fall under the non objection
rule, which leaves us with one case (tata) where
issues may be analyzed and addressed without
changing the system and putting the incentive
structure completely upside-down.<br>
<br>
More broadly speaking, ICANN cannot just ignore
the political sensitivities, which are backed by
different policies, laws etc. depending on the
corresponding country. You need their
representatives at the table and non-objecting if
you want to avoid protracted issues. These kinds
of issues only would grow if you gerrymander those
public authorities out of the game.<br>
<br>
best regards<br>
<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
Von: Liz Williams <<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><br>
Datum: 4. Mai 2018 um 00:48:00 MESZ<br>
An: leonard obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><br>
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names<br>
<br>
Hello everyone<br>
<br>
This thread has brought out some really
interesting ideas. I may have a simpler solution
because what we are really talking about, in many
cases, is backward looking difficult history from
which we need to move on. We should not be
satisfied with a 2007 policy and a 2012
implementation if it continues to “allow” bad
policy to chase “poor” implementation.<br>
<br>
I may have a solution though because what we are
essentially talking about also is how a interested
stakeholder can express “objection” to something.
I would like to see the end of the “non-objection”
process all together, for reasons explained in
other posts. However, “objecting to an
application" is still a legitimate course of
action for someone to take if they don’t want
something to happen. Here are the steps.<br>
<br>
1. If you support something, say so. This is
really up to an applicant to do the footwork to
demonstrate in an application that this has taken
place. We can then think on implementation
elements of what that could look like.<br>
<br>
2. If you don’t object to something, allow it to
happen. If you change your mind, you must do it
within agreed strict time parameters see point 3.
(Non-Objection letters will be a thing of the
past).<br>
<br>
3. If you do object, make an appropriately framed
objection whoever you are. Within that objection
process, refer to international law, domestic law,
ISO standards and so on that are relevant to the
applicant & the application. This takes out
the endless discussion here about what should be
referred to which causes such trouble.<br>
<br>
The applicant takes responsibility for ensuring
that they submit an application which addresses
those points and avoids an objection (all
applicants are highly motivated to avoid
objections). An objector must use those
standards; pay for making the objection and
submit it within appropriate time frames.
Evaluators then take those objections into account
in evaluation. An objector (whoever they are)
must accept that their objection may be discarded
by evaluators.<br>
<br>
Then we can close off the endless circular
differences between jurisdictions and we focus on
the real work that takes place for an applicant in
an application process.<br>
<br>
I look forward to hearing more from colleagues
because this could apply to a) any application and
b) geographic terms in particular. Our policy
recommendation then comes around to open process,
objective criteria, assumption of compliance with
law, competition and innovation. The points above
are then implementation guidelines that improve an
AGB.<br>
<br>
Liz<br>
<br>
<br>
….<br>
Dr Liz Williams | International Affairs<br>
.au Domain Administration Ltd<br>
M: +61 436 020 595 | +44 7824 877757<br>
E: <a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>
<a href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.auda.org.au</a><<a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.auda.org.au</a>><br>
<br>
Important Notice<br>
This email may contain information which is
confidential and/or subject to legal privilege,
and is intended for the use of the named addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, you
must not use, disclose or copy any part of this
email. If you have received this email by mistake,
please notify the sender and delete this message
immediately.<br>
<br>
On 4 May 2018, at 4:50 am, Mike Rodenbaugh <<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Maybe Staff can help compile any such laws and
cases related to domains? We should deal with
concrete examples, as I have given re 4 TLD
applications from the last round.<br>
<br>
Mike Rodenbaugh<br>
RODENBAUGH LAW<br>
tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087<br>
<a href="http://rodenbaugh.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com</a><<a
href="http://rodenbaugh.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com/</a>><br>
<br>
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:32 AM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>
wrote:<br>
Dear Mike<br>
There are similar laws in other countries. For
Switzerland you can look it up online quite easily
(in various languages). There is case-law but I
guess the court decisions will be in German and
French.<br>
Besides, limits to register solely city names and
other geographic terms as such as trademarks or
business names are also common...<br>
On the other hand, as said before, rights on
brands are limited to specific categories of
products and services...<br>
In the end, as said, you have different interests
converging on a single string, where in our
opinion the public interest is paramount.<br>
Best<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
Von: Mike Rodenbaugh <<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>><br>
Datum: 3. Mai 2018 um 19:26:08 MESZ<br>
An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><br>
Cc: Gregory S. Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>,
<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>
<<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>,
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>
<<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><br>
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names<br>
<br>
I would like to see the text of such laws, and any
cases that apply them to domain names. I guess
there might be one in France too, but I haven't
dug into the particulars of the French legal
proceedings re <a href="http://france.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">France.com</a><<a
href="http://france.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://France.com</a>>.<br>
<br>
Mike Rodenbaugh<br>
RODENBAUGH LAW<br>
tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087<br>
<a href="http://rodenbaugh.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com</a><<a
href="http://rodenbaugh.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com/</a>><br>
<br>
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 10:19 AM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>
wrote:<br>
Dear Mike<br>
I mentioned some, eg in Switzerland cities have
rights to protect their names under the civil code
(art. 29), and provisions prevent the registration
of business names and trademarks that solely
consist of city names.<br>
best<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
Von: Mike Rodenbaugh <<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>>><br>
Datum: 3. Mai 2018 um 19:06:27 MESZ<br>
An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>><br>
Cc: Gregory S. Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>>,
<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>
<<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>>,
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>
<<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names<br>
<br>
Jorge, what law provides for governments to claim
superior rights to geographic (or any other)
domain names? I am not aware of any, so am eager
to be enlightened if they exist.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
Mike Rodenbaugh<br>
RODENBAUGH LAW<br>
tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087<br>
<a href="http://rodenbaugh.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com</a><<a
href="http://rodenbaugh.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com/</a>><br>
<br>
On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 2:49 AM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>>
wrote:<br>
Dear Mike<br>
<br>
Thanks for your input.<br>
<br>
In the end we have different bodies, entities etc.
holding interests on one single string. In our
view (Swiss perspective), public interest provides
for clear limits to private monopolization over
geographic names such as city names – this is
reflected in law.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
<br>
Von: Mike Rodenbaugh [mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>>>>]<br>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Mai 2018 09:49<br>
An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>><br>
Cc: Gregory S. Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>>>>;
<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names<br>
<br>
Governments also have infinite, obvious
alternatives to <.city> TLDs, such as
<.citygovernment>, <.citycouncil>,
<.citytourism>, etc. Perhaps surprisingly,
governments have managed to survive for the past
30 years even though they have not had the legal
the right to "their" <<a
href="http://city.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">city.com</a><<a
href="http://city.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://city.com/</a>><<a
href="http://city.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://city.com</a><<a
href="http://city.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://city.com/</a>>><<a
href="http://city.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://city.com</a><<a
href="http://city.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://city.com/</a>>>>
or even <city.ccTLD> second level domain
names. They still have no such legal right at any
level of the DNS. Some governments' fantasy to
own such rights is just that, fantasy.<br>
<br>
To be sure, ICANN is not the proper body to grant
governments such a right. But unfortunately,
ICANN went far too far in the last round kowtowing
to governments, and requiring the "non-objection"
letter. That led to outright extortion by such
well known geographic areas as SPA and BAR, among
others, who had nothing more that a fantasy to
control TLD rights to that name, plus ICANN's
ill-advised, non-community-consensus requirement
of the non-objection letter. As I recall (and I
could be wrong and will eat my shoe), that was an
ICANN Staff implementation gift, not part of the
consensus policy passed by GNSO and the Board.
Even if it was, it was ill-advised then, and
should be eliminated for future rounds.<br>
<br>
Country codes have been given special status in
the DNS with ccTLDs and correspondent restrictions
at the second level of the New gTLDs. That was an
original gift to national governments, extended
stupidly to the second level by ICANN in the last
round, solely to appease government
obstructionists in that last round. Subsidiary
governments need to get over this; they don't have
further rights to "their" name in the DNS.
Period.<br>
<br>
Paris, France has no greater rights to .PARIS than
Paris, Texas. Or Paris Hilton. Period. But I
would love to hear them fight out that issue.
ICANN certainly should not have predetermined it
in favor of France or Texas, to the detriment of
Ms. Hilton (and so many other legitimate users of
the word Paris). All three of those parties (at
least) had equal rights to that TLD, and should
have been put into a contention set to resolve it.<br>
<br>
In substantial part, governments continue to
rehash arguments made by IGOs in the various IGO
Names policy discussions. Those IGOs get nowhere
with the broader GNSO community because they only
have fantasy rights to "their" names (in many
cases) and acronyms (in almost all cases). So
they scream to the Board and have delayed finality
in those discussions for half a decade already.
But the GNSO is never going to agree with them,
and the GNSO has primary TLD policy responsibility
under the Bylaws, not the GAC. Eventually, the
Board must side with the GNSO, though they will
put that off forever if they can, as they have
done with IGO Names issues.<br>
<br>
This GNSO group ought not be considering
government pressure or fantasy rights. If the
Board wants to do so, that is their prerogative.
We need to develop policy in the real world, where
governments coexist with businesses and other
users of "their" names. They have done so for 30
years. I am confident in stating that not a
single government has fallen, nor even been
harmed, by the ability of absolutely anyone to
register "their" name at the second level or at
the top level. Until any such harm is shown, why
are we even discussing this? What problem are we
trying to solve, exactly?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mike Rodenbaugh<br>
RODENBAUGH LAW<br>
tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087<br>
<a href="http://rodenbaugh.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com</a><<a
href="http://rodenbaugh.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com/</a>><br>
<br>
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:28 PM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>>>>
wrote:<br>
Dear all<br>
<br>
The fundamental flaw with such an approach is that
it forgets that TLDs are unique. There can be only
one TLD with a given city name. there can be only
one delegation of such a string.<br>
<br>
City governments have political, social,
historical, economic and legal responsibilities
over their cities, and have (at least in
Switzerland and other countries) rights on the
names of their cities. There might be several
cities with the same name, but under the 2012 AGB
you had to obtain the non-objection from all of
them if that was the case.<br>
<br>
As for brands there may be unlimited numbers of
business names and trademarks that use a given
city name, usually as part of their names (e.g.
City “insurances”, City “salami”, City
“whatever”…) and with figurative elements beyond
the name as such (the color, the font, symbols,
etc.). For instance in Switzerland you are not
allowed to register a city name as such as a
business name – because this would mean that a
private business is monopolizing that geographic
name.<br>
<br>
Hence the crux, resolved in 2012 by the
non-objection letter, was that several interests
(public interests of a wide spectrum represented
by the cities, community interests and multiple
commercial interests in the form of brands) may
converge on one string, one city name, one TLD.<br>
<br>
The non-objection letter was and is in our view a
good way to get the more specific interests
backing one application to a table with those who
represent the corresponding city (and its public
policy interests), in order to try to arrive at a
mutually acceptable solution…<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
Von: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>>]
Im Auftrag von Greg Shatan<br>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Mai 2018 06:27<br>
An: Marita Moll <<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>>><br>
Cc: Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>>><br>
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names<br>
<br>
We need to distinguish between two major groups of
potential use cases that arise when there is an
application for a string that (among other things)
is a geographic term:<br>
<br>
1. The Geo Case: The case where a new gTLD
applicant want to operate the gTLD as a
"geographic" TLD (e.g., .berlin, .nyc, .africa)<br>
2. The Non-Geo Case: The case where a new gTLD
wants to operate the gTLD as something other than
a geographic TLD -- a .brand, a generic gTLD, a
restricted gTLD (e.g., .tata, .spa, .amazon,
.patagonia)<br>
<br>
For the Geo Case, it may be that there are few
instances where support/non-objection letters
caused problems in the 2012 round. One "problem"
instance is .africa. One would have to look at
the universe of cases to determine whether all the
rest worked well or not.<br>
<br>
For the Non-Geo Case, it is clear that there were
multiple instances where support/non-objection
letters or similar exercises of power did cause
problems. We can start with all four of the
examples I've cited above. I would be curious to
know if there were Non-Geo Cases that didn't have
problems.<br>
<br>
I think we have to consider these use cases
separately. The considerations that apply when a
TLD will be operated as a geo TLD (e.g., Roma for
Romans) do not apply when the TLD will be operated
for other purposes (e.g., .sandwich for a
food-related TLD -- Sandwich, MA was incorporated
in 1639 and named after Sandwich, England, which
is obviously older). Blending them together just
obscures the issues.<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Marita Moll <<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Yes, cities can have long history in older
cultures -- wars were fought and people died over
them.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In Canada, municipal governments are subdivisions
of their province. While they have autonomy on
most decisions, all by-laws passed are subject to
change by the provincial government at any time.
So cities exist at the pleasure of the provincial
governments.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Leaves one to wonder if the province could deny
the city the right to it's TLD.:-( This is a
pretty slippery slope......<br>
<br>
<br>
Marita<br>
<br>
On 5/2/2018 11:17 AM, Yrjö Länsipuro wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Cities have been founded, incorporated and given
various privileges - including their names - in
the course of history by kings and emperors and
other assorted authorities, and in my non-lawyer´s
mind, documents attesting to those acts, scribbled
on parchment or whatever, are the legal basis.
More important, from end-users´ point of view, is
the political ownership felt by the citizens.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
For reference, attached please find an excerpt of
the founding document of my home city
Tampere/Tammerfors in 1779, signed by king Gustaf
III.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Yrjö<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
[<a href="cid:image001.png@01D3E2D4"
moz-do-not-send="true">cid:image001.png@01D3E2D4</a>.C11E9F30]<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>>
on behalf of Alexander Schubert <<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>>><br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 5:16 PM<br>
To: <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Greg,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
You write:<br>
“…..but a ‘first right’ based on a
geographic name is troublesome on several levels.
But one fundamental question jumps out -- what
right is this first right based on?”<br>
<br>
If we talk about sizeable (or otherwise
“important”) cities:<br>
<br>
Nobody has a “first right” obviously. Why should
anybody. But if a string is (should be) poised to
serve as identifier for a sizeable amount of
people (e.g. larger cities) – I think we do not
have to search for “international law”; it should
be self-evident that such an infrastructure
resource like a city-gTLD is NOT assigned lightly
to “some entity” – but that the representatives of
the city are looped in. There is morality and a
“sense of common good” OUTSIDE of established law.
At least in Good Old Europe.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
But I completely agree with you if we talk about
“minor” geographical entities – such as a small
stream or a hill. Or a tiny dwelling somewhere in
the nowhere. Especially if there is an entity that
is MUCH better known to the public (e.g. a
well-known brand vs. a small mountain) or if it
is identical to a generic term: “.new” and the New
River.<br>
<br>
The big question is: How do we policy the line
that separates the entities that deserve
“protection” from the rest? A repository? Lists of
any sort? Population size? Or maybe a panel that
decides case by case (caution: Beauty contest
alarm)? But having no protections at all is not
going to work. To LOWER the already low bar is
bonkers in my mind. I wish GAC would pay more
attention – there are forces trying to take away
DNS infrastructure from The People.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Alexander.berlin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>>]
On Behalf Of Greg Shatan<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 7:42 AM<br>
To: David Cake <<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>>>><br>
Cc: leonard obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference
call: city names<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I find myself generally in agreement with Liz
Williams. There are more nuances to unpack than I
have time for, but a "first right" based on a
geographic name is troublesome on several levels.
But one fundamental question jumps out -- what
right is this first right based on? Is there a
legal basis for this? (Jorge tells us that his
government would make a decision "based on law",
so it would be useful to know what law we're
talking about.) Requiring a "letter of support or
non-objection" is also troublesome and not just
for the reasons Liz mentions. (I hope we do not
have to pore through each of the letters of
support/non-objection from the first round to
highlight the problems they cause, but if we are
going to, this should be a job for the WG as a
whole, not an assignment for Liz.) I recognize
that, as Jorge say, it "works well for
governments." Well, of course it does! It
completely favors governments, and was imposed by
governments (i.e., the GAC). The problem is that
it doesn't work well for anyone else, and it is
not well-grounded in the rule of law (unless we
are thinking of something akin to the droit de
seigneur, or perhaps the Divine Right of Kings).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I don't know if I'll be able to be on any part of
the call starting shortly, since it is running
from 1-2:30 am my time, and I don't do well on 4
hours of sleep.... If am not, please accept my
apologies.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:48 PM, David Cake <<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a>>>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Perth is not even unique within Australia, there
is a small town in Tasmania. But the point about
ambiguity remaining even if we restrict it to
concepts like ‘capital’ is a very good one.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
David (resident of the Western Australian Perth)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 30 Apr 2018, at 1:18 pm, Liz Williams <<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello everyone<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I wanted to start a new thread of conversation
about city names ahead of our upcoming conference
call. We are being encouraged by our co-chairs
to think about city names as TLDs. The first point
is, perhaps, to recognise the “success” of some
previous city TLDs including Berlin, Paris, NYC
and so on. Those applications went through very
specific requirements for evaluation and, now,
hopefully serve the requirements of local
communities. We should hope that, in any new
round, the experiences of those cities will ease
the way for future applications because we have
learnt something about how and why applicants
apply for place names (and I use the word place
deliberately) as top level domain labels.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
For our next round of policy recommendations I
wanted to use an example which I think highlights
the difficulties we face if we are prescriptive
and limited in our analysis.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Most of us know that Perth is the capital city of
Western Australia. It is not the capital city of
Australia as Canberra has that honour. Relying on
a “is the word a capital city” question is fraught
with difficulty. It is difficult because Perth,
Scotland, has at a bare minimum had city status
since the 12th century, far longer than Perth,
Australia which also has an indigenous place name,
its colonial name and a migrant demographic where
the largest majority of Perth residents come from
England. Things are complicated by the existence
of Perth in Canada which, in its own right, has
some features of a capital and, at the very least,
some important historic linkages.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
And then we turn to the generic words which Jon
Nevett highlighted in a previous post (Bath, Save,
New) which are also place names.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
That leads us to what can we usefully and
objectively recommend as treatment of other names
which are also linked to places and how those
could be treated as top level domains. As a
starting point, my recommendation would be that we
don’t have any special treatment for place names
as TLDs and that applicants for those names would
be evaluated against other business and technical
criteria just like another application. However,
we might want to think about better ways of
handling an objection. Those objections, from
whatever quarter, need to be treated in exactly
the same way. I don’t recommend “letters of
support or non-objection”. They are too
subjective, fraught with movable political nuance
and, in some cases, deeply sensitive geo-political
facts (using Jerusalem as the example).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I look forward to hearing the views of others.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Liz<br>
<br>
….<br>
Dr Liz Williams | International Affairs<br>
.au Domain Administration Ltd<br>
M: +61 436 020 595 | +44 7824 877757<br>
E: <a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>>>
<a href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.auda.org.au</a><<a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.auda.org.au/</a>><<a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.auda.org.au</a><<a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.auda.org.au/</a>>><<a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.auda.org.au/</a>><br>
<br>
Important Notice<br>
This email may contain information which is
confidential and/or subject to legal privilege,
and is intended for the use of the named addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, you
must not use, disclose or copy any part of this
email. If you have received this email by mistake,
please notify the sender and delete this message
immediately.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
<br>
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>>>><br>
<span class="im"><a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span class="im">_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span class="im">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><br>
<span class="im"><a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><mailto:<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>