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<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I agree that community
interest should come before corporate ones. But it is hard to
sort out the murky details. When, where, how??? At least, with
respect to cities, there are meaningful numbers that should hold
some relevance. The following site lists 1000 cities by city
population and urban area population. The top 500 have over 1M
in both categories. Can anyone imagine a scenario in which such
large areas would be denied the right to their city name -- <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.mongabay.com/cities_urban_01.htm">https://www.mongabay.com/cities_urban_01.htm</a></font><br>
</p>
I think size matters here. It is not the only thing, but it would at
least, in my mind, deal with the obvious.<br>
<br>
Marita Moll<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/7/2018 11:02 AM, Timo Võhmar
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAN9g7Ajgtf0o6qknw=fgDS5AragK7vcmnAipZkOARKbXjbtKg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Thank you Jorge for your tireless effort in this
discussion. I do strongly support your points and points of
few others here and appreciate the summary very much. I would
just like to add my own angle on the matter. I strongly
believe that interests of communities must come before
corporate ones - internet is for people. So naming your
company after a famous jungle or well known river or country,
city or any other geographic term should not give any special
rights to that name. Likewise registering a trademark Fabulous
Estonia should not, and to my understanding does not give any
special privileges toward terms Fabulous nor Estonia
separately. I do think that countries, cities should have
priority to established names because these usually represent
larger communities and wider variety of interests.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To solve the question of Amsterdam, Athens etc I think
Alexander has pointed out a good approach - sharing, if the
communities of the cities have common interest in use of the
TLD. Lets think how to facilitate and support it from the
ICANNs side.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To deal with the risk of "greedy governments" naming their
cities after famous corporations just to have that cool TLD -
maybe the basis to decide who gets the delegation should be
historical data - which one was established first - city or
the company/organisation/trademark. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When it comes to the letter of non-objection - until we
have not come up with better solution I do not see the way to
drop it. I personally prefer letter of support.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best Regards,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Timo Võhmar</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 5:01 PM, <span
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple"
lang="DE-CH">
<div class="m_-7135675760193825365WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Dear
Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">The requirement
is already established in the 2012 AGB for good
reason:
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">„</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> In the
event that there is more than one</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">relevant
government or public authority for the applied-for</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">gTLD string,
the applicant must provide documentation of</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">support or
non-objection from all the relevant governments</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">or public
authorities. It is anticipated that this may apply
to</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century
Gothic",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">the case of
a sub-national place name.”</span><span
style="color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">In your ideas you forget many things,
(1) that city governments are not aware of ICANN;
(2) that we are not talking about auctions here;
(3) that the interest represented by the cities in
their names is of a general, public nature, linked
to their political, economic, social etc.
responsibilities vis-à-vis the denomination of
their city.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Lucerne the city is not just a
business or a company that happens to use the
cities name as part of its commercial
identification for specific products and services.
Lucerne is a political entity, with quite a long
history, a reputation, and a responsibility to
protect the interests of its citizenship, which
include their identity and their name as a
political community. This may be difficult to
understand for you, but is reflected in local law
in Switzerland in different manners. A local law
that ICANN would need to respect as it is
applicable.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Best</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Jorge
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span
lang="DE"> Paul Rosenzweig [mailto:<a
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paul.rosenzweig@<wbr>redbranchconsulting.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 7. Mai 2018 15:47<br>
<b>An:</b> Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>;
<a href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">annebeth.lange@norid.no</a>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Conference call: city names</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">If your proposal really is that every
city in the world that has Athens in its name must
sign off on who gets Athens or that the city of
Sandwich MA (as small but pleasant place BTW) can
stop the delegation of Sandwich, I disagree.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">My feasible solution is simple –
nobody gets priority. When/If the .sandwich TLD
is offered up, everyone should get notice of that
fact. We might even send as special invitatation
to Sandwich MA and Sandwich, UK (and any other
Sandwichs out there) all of who can, if they
choose, submit applications. The one that meets
the criteria best, gets the TLD, just like in any
other auction.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Works quite well. And if the
.Sandwich folks run afoul of local Sandwich law in
the UK, they’ll have to deal with it in the UK.
Your proposal that “it is up to the parties” to
get the best result is exactly right. The problem
is that you would give Lucerne a veto power.
Everyone who studies economics knows that this
sort of priority causes rent-seeking, distorts
markets and is economically counter-productive. I
understand why Lucerne wants to export its rights
globally. I would too in their position. But
recognizing local law applied locally is not the
same as giving global effect to Swiss law.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Paul Rosenzweig</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">M: +1 (202) 329-9650</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> <a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a> <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 7, 2018 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paul.rosenzweig@<wbr>redbranchconsulting.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">annebeth.lange@norid.no</a>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> AW: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Conference call: city names</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Dear
Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Thanks for dropping that
„international law“ „requirement”. It certainly
would be useful if you also considered the
importance of the Bylaws provision that ICANN has
to act in conformity with applicable local law.
You may not like that, but it is a fact of the
framework we work with.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Apart from that, as far as I know
this discussion about “letter of non-objection” is
about obtaining a non-objection from the relevant
public authorities. If there are multiple cities
with the very same name, from all of them equally,
as is provided for in the AGB.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Obtaining the letter of non-objection
is a requirement for the application to go
forward, but does not give you a “right” to the
TLD – that will depend on complying with all the
other requirements and going through all the
process. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">And obtaining such a letter is open
to any interested applicants, be it brand owners
with interests on trademarks which may coincide
with that city name, be it communities, be it
private business, etc.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">It is up to the parties to come up
with the best agreement in their shared interest.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">I would appreciate that you would
propose constructive and feasible solutions that
would respect the interests and rights of cities
in their names. Just ignoring such interests and
rights is the best recipe for protracted conflicts
between applicants and relevant public
authorities, which is something we have seen
happening in some applications regarding terms
with geographic significance not falling under the
“non-objection” rule.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Best regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Jorge </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span
lang="DE"> Paul Rosenzweig [<a
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@<wbr>redbranchconsulting.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 7. Mai 2018 15:24<br>
<b>An:</b> Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>;
<a href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">annebeth.lange@norid.no</a>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Conference call: city names</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">No I am calling for those, like you,
who are seeking to take priority over other people
to justify that. So far all you have offered is
the anodyne view that “cities have history.” That
is, to my mind, insufficient (and also inaccurate,
but that is another matter). If the
multistakeholder model is to mean anything it is
to mean working of a set of standards that are of
general applicability – not the rule of the
powerful.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">So, if we are just “voting” my vote
is that city names are not to be given priority.
To many of them are multiplicious (see, e.g.
Athens – who gets that one); too many have become
part of common useage (e.g. Sandwich) and too many
of them are just subterfuges for protectionism.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Until you can identify a neutral
principle that works from behind the Rawlsian veil
of ignorance, all you are doing is asserting “I
should win because my view of the importance of
city names is a higher value than your view of
intellectual property.” </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Sorry, that’s not persuasive. Show
me a rule or a policy that existed before this
debate began and I’ll consider it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Paul Rosenzweig</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">M: +1 (202) 329-9650</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> <a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a> <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 7, 2018 8:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paul.rosenzweig@<wbr>redbranchconsulting.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">annebeth.lange@norid.no</a>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> AW: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Conference call: city names</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Dear
Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Your requirement starts from an
erroneous assumption, i.e. that we need
international law for our policy options.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">As said before, we are in ICANN do
develop policy in a multistakeholder fashion, with
the global public interest as ultimate goal.
Pursuant to the Bylaws, international law and
applicable local laws have to be respected in that
journey, but they do not determine the full body
of policy – otherwise we would not be here…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Or are you calling for an
international body to take over the tasks of the
multistakeholder model which is ICANN?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Best</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Jorge </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span
lang="DE"> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Paul Rosenzweig<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 7. Mai 2018 14:44<br>
<b>An:</b> 'Annebeth Lange' <<a
href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">annebeth.lange@norid.no</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Conference call: city names</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">So here is a specific proposal: “No
geo name gets priority unless it is a name
recognized in international law or by some
international body of standard setting. No geo
name gets priority if it is held by more than one
geo location.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">I have asked, twice, for those
supporting the city names to identify either
international law or an international standard for
defining which ones are to be given priority.
Supporters have yet to point to any such
definitive, normative list. Absent such a list,
prioritizing a geo name is just picking a winner.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">Paul Rosenzweig</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">M: +1 (202) 329-9650</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US">VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Annebeth Lange<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 7, 2018 5:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Conference call: city names</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">Dear colleagues,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">As one of the
co-chairs in WT5 I have followed the discussion
but kept myself in the background to see where
this discussion leads. As co-chairs we have to be
neutral, even if the 4 of us represent different
SO/AC groups and, I am sure, have different
views. But we all want to get a solution that is
predictable and as close to full consensus as
possible.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">However, I would like
to remind members to only add new points rather
than reiterating the same points already raised
and to focus on a specific task or topic at hand.
It is not easy for those of us not having English
as our mother tongue formulate our opinions and we
do not have the power of argumentation that those
with English as native language have. This should
also be thought of. I am afraid there are members
in WT5 that is totally overwhelmed by this and do
not feel it within their power </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">to go against those
strong and competent comments. Still, I encourage
everyone interested in this issue to raise their
voice.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">It is obvious that the
differences are huge between the SO/ACs on this
issue. And I do feel that the conversation is
going in circles here. It would be good if members
submit specific proposals that take all views into
consideration. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">I would like to remind
you and highlight some resources as starting
points for discussion regarding proposals -- there
are a number of proposals put forward in the 2017
webinars that might be helpful to draw on: </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"><a
href="https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/2017-04-25+Geographic+Names+Webinars"
title="https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/2017-04-25+Geographic+Names+Webinars"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://community.icann.org/<wbr>display/NGSPP/2017-04-25+<wbr>Geographic+Names+Webinars</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">In addition, the
facilitators of the geo names sessions at ICANN59
did a very good job of summarizing some of the
underlying interests and possible paths forward,
based on interviews with different stakeholders
and input through discussions at the meeting (see
slides):
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"><a
href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=66081677"
title="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=66081677"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://community.icann.org/<wbr>pages/viewpage.action?pageId=<wbr>66081677</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">Some of this might
provide inspiration in the discussion on ways to
create greater structure.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">Thanks to everyone for
your eagerness and dedication to discuss this
issue. As a last point, I would like to remind you
that also the AGB 2012 rules on cities were a
compromise, that the multistakeholders used long
time to find and that have worked quite well even
if not everybody got what they wanted.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">Kind regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB">Annebeth</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic
Sans MS"" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>>
on behalf of "Mazzone, Giacomo" <<a
href="mailto:mazzone@ebu.ch" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mazzone@ebu.ch</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 7 May 2018 at 09:54<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>"
<<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr>"
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Conference call: city names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Jorge,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">This seems
to me a more balanced summary of the discussion.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">There are
some points that could be even more motivated (I
see ,for instance, that you don't mentioned the
cases from Italy that I mentioned in my mails,
like "Capri" , where international brands
company where denied to use these names in the
Court without previous agreement of the local
authorities) but we can improve the wording
later.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thank you
Jorge for this work.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Giacomo</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">-----Original
Message-----</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">From:
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of
<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Sent: lundi
7 mai 2018 07:43</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">To: <a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Subject: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear all,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Here is
another summary of the issue, which could help
co-leads in preparing their third party-recap:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- TLDs are
unique. If a string composed by one name as such
is delegated others with an interest on that
name will be prevented from using that name.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">-
Distinctions based on intended use is therefore
not helpful. "Intended use" limitations also
imply impractical enforcement challenges that
would be posed by any circumventing on intended
use by third parties, such as registrants...</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- city names
are geographic terms that have political,
historical, economic (sometimes religious) and
social connotations for the populations,
communities affected.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- city
governments have responsibilities over their
names as their primary identifiers in social,
national, political and economic interactions
and as identification of their peoples.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- Their
responsibilities are laid down in different
public policy and law instruments (in
Switzerland we have seen that they, inter alia,
have rights on their names under civil right).
The city name is subject to general/public
interests representent by that city government.
City governments act according to the laws of
the countries they are established and
accountable under them.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- City names
as such are not subject to rights by private
parties. A monopolization of a city name by
private parties is forbidden under laws
pertaining to business names and trademark
registration in a number of jurisdictions.
Trademark interests to city names refer normally
to composed names ("lucerne foods") and are
limited to specific products and services in
certain jurisdictions, in order to avoid
consumer confusion. They protect against others
using that name in that category of products or
services who generate confusion in the consumer.
(please refer to Nicks Email on this).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- Applicants
for a string (eg of a city name) have a specific
and direct interest to their application, are
interested in certainty and in not receiving
objections when they are well into an
application process. Such applicants are aware
of ICANN and its procedures, as this is a
prerequisite for obtaining the delegation.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- Applicants
will usually be aware that the string they wish
to apply for is also a city name. If not they
can do a search and identify potential cities
with that name. ICANN and GAC Members can help
identifying relevant public authorities (AGB
2012).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- City
Governments (hundreds of thousands worlwide) do
not know ICANN. They cannot be expected to
monitor its proceedings and actively look for
their city names being applied for and to object
within deadlines they ignore.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">-
Non-objection-letters worked generally well
under the 2012 AGB, in 60+ cases.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- Only few
cases (1-2) have been referred to where
potential issues with the "non-objection" as
such were identified.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- Further
study of such cases could be warranted,
considering evidence from the parties involved,
i.e. both applicants and relevant public
authorities. This analysis could warrant
identifying improvements to the
non-objection-letter. At the same time, the fact
that no agreement was found between applicants
and city governments may have different,
legitimate causes.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">-
Non-objection letters fairly puts the burden on
the party with specific and direct interests in
the application to reach out to the relevant
public authorities of the corresponding city. It
gets those specific interest-holders on a table
with the representatives of the public interest
of the people living in the city with that name.
This system allows for different solutions to be
worked out between the parties, which may go
from "laisser-faire", to participation in
governance of the string, to joint initiatives
etc.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- If more
than one city has the same name, all benefit
equally from the nom-objection instrument, as
all have a say.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">- Potential
issues to be further analysed:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">a) cases
where issues arose with the non-objection letter
as such. Improvements to the non-objection
letter system.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">b) ...</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hope this is
helpful</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">best</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Von: <a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a> <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Datum: 7.
Mai 2018 um 06:49:39 MESZ</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
liz.williams@auda.org.au</a> <<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a> <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Liz</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks, but
one has to reflect all views when you try such a
thing. You just summarize the views of those
people with your views. And you conclude it with
your initial statement (100 messages ago) on the
non-objection-letter, without having considered
the arguments of others... that, you may
concede, is not quite objective...</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">To be short:
we have four very capable co-leads and staff,
let's them do their job and produce a
third-party summary of the discussion so far.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Von: Liz
Williams <<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Datum: 7.
Mai 2018 um 06:43:24 MESZ</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An: Cancio
Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: leonard
obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">If you want
to do a better job of summarising things as we
track along, go right ahead. That task is
always open to anyone on the group, the
co-chairs and ICANN staff supporting the
work. I really don't give a fig who does <a
href="http://it.it" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">it.it</a> just needs to
be done so that we are moving along
diligently. Otherwise we end up in ridiculous
circles of oneupmanship which I don't care for.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I've done
more than enough in my time of trying to read
rough consensus, considering differing points of
view and trying to come up with best practice
that I really don't mind who does what.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">It all needs
to be fed back to the bigger SubPro group and
then to the GNSO and then to the Board and then
to public comment so we are MILES from any final
position.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Liz</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">..</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dr Liz
Williams | International Affairs</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">.au Domain
Administration Ltd</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">M: +61 436
020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">E: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>>
<a href="http://www.auda.org.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.auda.org.au</a><<a
href="http://www.auda.org.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.<wbr>auda.org.au</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Important
Notice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">This email
may contain information which is confidential
and/or subject to legal privilege, and is
intended for the use of the named addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, you
must not use, disclose or copy any part of this
email. If you have received this email by
mistake, please notify the sender and delete
this message immediately.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 7 May
2018, at 2:34 pm, <a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ma<wbr>ilto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.<wbr>ch</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Liz</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I guess that
you mean that this is a good summary of the
opinions expressed by some, but which do not
represent those expressed by many others (e.g.
Alexander, Kathrin, Nick, Giacomo, Marita, Yrjo,
Nouar, Kavouss... and I).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Let's leave
these summaries to the co-leads. Otherwise we
will have many different summaries.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">best</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Von: Liz
Williams <<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mail<wbr>to:liz.williams@auda.org.au></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Datum: 7.
Mai 2018 um 02:00:49 MESZ</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An: Marita
Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org</a>>
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hello
everyone</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I am really
pleased that this thread has yielded such a
diverse set of perspectives. I wanted to, if we
could, try to wrap up some things that we may or
may not have consensus on so that we can discuss
that on the next call. That might help the
co-chairs and staff?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">1. We want
to continue to have clear, objective and fact
based policies associated with the assessment of
all TLD applications. This, of course, includes
geographic terms.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">2. We need
to have clear application evaluation procedures
that ensure that the ICANN Board, GAC,
applicants understand exactly what their
respective roles are. In a multi-stakeholder
environment, no one has primacy over
another. The GAC is very different from
national governments and can only provide
collective consensus advice to the ICANN
Board. The GAC has no operational
role. However, individual member governments
may have different opinions about specific
applications for TLDs.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">These two
things are no different from what we had hoped
would happen in previous rounds. Where we have
diverged is that the role of the Board and GAC
and the ICANN organisation dramatically changed
the implementation of the evaluation process for
many applicants. Interference in the evaluation
process was problematic and unfair as has been
demonstrated in numerous examples. We need to
address that unfairness in implementation
suggestions.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">For the next
round, I would suggest that we, at a policy
level, do not change 1 above. However, we
should have plenty to say on the implementation
of those policies because, given the level of
disagreement/misunderstanding/<wbr>positioning,
we are not in agreement.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">From
listening to the discussion I think we have
general consensus that</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">1. Geographic
terms are important for the next round of
applications for many reasons which are
consistent with ICANN's Mission and Core Values.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">2. That the
expansion of "lists" of things is not an
effective or useful or reliable way of
determining what could be in or out beyond ISO
3166. Expansion of the application of national
law into the international realm of the domain
name system is neither effective or
appropriate. We already have in place numerous
elements which can be relied upon by
applications and evaluators to fairly and
predictably "treat" applications for TLD labels
that may have geographic significance.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">3. We agree
that governments may be concerned with
geographic terms but they do not own them or
control or have a right of veto over an
application. Governments are legitimate
applicants for geographic terms. They are also
legitimate objectors, like any one else, to
applications.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Looking
forward to hearing other views but I hope that
we, finally, get rid of the "non-objection"
artifact which can be capricious (if a
government changes), subjective (because we
haven't successfully articulated what
non-objection looks like on a consistent basis),
and it is much easier to either support
something or object to it (using clearly set out
guidelines).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best wishes.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Liz</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">..</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dr Liz
Williams | International Affairs</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">.au Domain
Administration Ltd</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">M: +61 436
020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">E: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:liz.williams@auda.org.au><<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au</a>>
<a href="http://www.auda.org.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.auda.org.au</a><<a
href="http://www.auda.org.au%3e%3chttp:/www.auda.org.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.<wbr>auda.org.au><http://www.auda.<wbr>org.au</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Important
Notice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">This email
may contain information which is confidential
and/or subject to legal privilege, and is
intended for the use of the named addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, you
must not use, disclose or copy any part of this
email. If you have received this email by
mistake, please notify the sender and delete
this message immediately.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 7 May
2018, at 9:24 am, Marita Moll <<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I want to
thank Alexander for so ably expressing a view
that I can really resonate with. Cities are as
unique and culturally relevant as countries --
many of them have been around longer than the
countries they now reside in (Istanbul). Would
it be possible to create a list of cities that
are large enough that their names should be
treated as reserved for the use of the people of
that city to identify themselves just as
countries do through ccTLD's? Could we set the
conditions that would lead to such a list?
Inevitably, some cities would be excluded and
seek inclusion. But we have to start somewhere.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Marita Moll</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 5/5/2018
1:41 PM, Alexander Schubert wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Robin,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I think you
and I share a certain "distain" for regulation
exercised through "Governments". You write:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">"It allows
us to focus on whether or not someone is trying
to misrepresent that they speak for a govt when
they don't, and I think that misrepresentation
should be key in our analysis."</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">You and Greg
are seemingly working off the assumption that
somebody wants to help GOVERNMENTS to "protect"
their territories in the DNS. But why don't you
and Greg ever think about THE PEOPLE? I honestly
couldn't care less about Governments - but I do
care very much and very passionate about PEOPLE.
And we need to make sure that the constituents
of a city are looped into the decision what
happens to their city name in the DNS. In the
2012 AGB this was facilitated by CITY
Governments (NOT national Governments). Forget
for a moment about "Governments" - and root for
THE PEOPLE: How to protect THEM? NOT from
"misrepresentation" - but from the ability to
identify themselves through city gTLD domain
names (see the equivalent via ccTLDs).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hence my
proposal to REQUIRE a "community priority
application" if the string is identical to a
("sizeable") city: I want that THE PEOPLE in a
city are INVOLVED. Not enough to just go to the
major, promise 85% of (diluted) "profits" - and
then blanket the space with hundreds of
non-managed city gTLDs applied for to "just make
big bucks"; instead of having locally managed
and promoted CITY initiatives that THRIVE!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Alexander.berlin</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">From:
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Robin Gross</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Sent:
Friday, May 04, 2018 7:20 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">To: Greg
Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>><<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><wbr>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: Icann
Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Subject: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On May 3,
2018, at 10:06 PM, Greg Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:gregshatanipc@gmail.com><<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The burden
of non-objection is "fairly" put on the
applicant (if at all) only if the intended use
of the gTLD is as a "geo TLD." If the
applied-for string is going to be used for other
purposes, there should be no opportunity for a
non-applicant to block an application.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I think
Greg's suggestion to focus on intended use is a
very helpful suggestion for our work. It allows
us to focus on whether or not someone is trying
to misrepresent that they speak for a govt when
they don't, and I think that misrepresentation
should be key in our analysis. We don't want to
encourage a misrepresentation, but we also are
obligated to recognize competing legitimate
interests to the same term and in cases where
there is no misrepresentation connected with the
intended use of TLD with geographic meaning,
those applicants should be allowed to go
forward, unless they violate international law
on some other ground.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Robin</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On May 3,
2018, at 10:06 PM, Greg Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:gregshatanipc@gmail.com><<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The burden
of non-objection is "fairly" put on the
applicant (if at all) only if the intended use
of the gTLD is as a "geo TLD." If the
applied-for string is going to be used for other
purposes, there should be no opportunity for a
non-applicant to block an application. (If the
"place" is another applicant, that's an entirely
different situation that I am not covering in
this email.)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Consider an
application for .sandwich as a gTLD geared
toward domains for sandwich restaurants,
sandwich recipe sites, sandwich fans, sandwich
historians, sellers of sandwich ingredients
(meats, cheeses, breads, condiments, etc.) or
sandwich implements (panini presses, toaster
ovens, etc.). Sandwich, England and Sandwich,
Mass. (and the Earl of Sandwich) should have no
say in the matter.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">This is
analogous to the treatment of brands. If Delta
Faucets applies for .Delta, Delta Van Lines has
no basis for an objection -- because Delta
Faucets has a legitimate right. Delta Van Lines
option is to apply or not to apply (even if it
is only a "defensive application"). This is a
practical and time-tested model that we should
use for strings with geographic and other
meanings, at least where the gTLDs use is not as
a "geo TLD".</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Greg</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Fri, May
4, 2018 at 12:56 AM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m<wbr>ailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Liz</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The burden
to obtain the non-objection is fairly put on the
applicant, who has, as you also say, a direct
interest in avoiding objections.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The city
governments of this world (we have 2000+ in tiny
Switzerland), whose name is applied to by an
applicant in a widely unknown setting which is
ICANN cannot be expected to be privy to such
procedures and to be monitoring the rounds of
applications. This is of course much more
difficult for developing and large countries,
whose cities may realize one day that their name
was taken as a TLD in a process they did not
know, because they did not "object".</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">To the
larger point: you argue/assert that the
non-objection letter should not be continued.
Alas you have produced no factual basis that
would warrant that, beyond one case (africa)
where the problems were of an unrelated
character, another (amazon) that did NOT fall
under the non objection rule, which leaves us
with one case (tata) where issues may be
analyzed and addressed without changing the
system and putting the incentive structure
completely upside-down.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">More broadly
speaking, ICANN cannot just ignore the political
sensitivities, which are backed by different
policies, laws etc. depending on the
corresponding country. You need their
representatives at the table and non-objecting
if you want to avoid protracted issues. These
kinds of issues only would grow if you
gerrymander those public authorities out of the
game.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">best regards</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Von: Liz
Williams <<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mail<wbr>to:liz.williams@auda.org.au><<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Datum: 4.
Mai 2018 um 00:48:00 MESZ</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An: leonard
obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hello
everyone</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">This thread
has brought out some really interesting
ideas. I may have a simpler solution because
what we are really talking about, in many cases,
is backward looking difficult history from which
we need to move on. We should not be satisfied
with a 2007 policy and a 2012 implementation if
it continues to "allow" bad policy to chase
"poor" implementation.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I may have a
solution though because what we are essentially
talking about also is how a interested
stakeholder can express "objection" to
something. I would like to see the end of the
"non-objection" process all together, for
reasons explained in other posts. However,
"objecting to an application" is still a
legitimate course of action for someone to take
if they don't want something to happen. Here
are the steps.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">1. If you
support something, say so. This is really up to
an applicant to do the footwork to demonstrate
in an application that this has taken place. We
can then think on implementation elements of
what that could look like.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">2. If you
don't object to something, allow it to
happen. If you change your mind, you must do it
within agreed strict time parameters see point
3. (Non-Objection letters will be a thing of the
past).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">3. If you
do object, make an appropriately framed
objection whoever you are. Within that
objection process, refer to international law,
domestic law, ISO standards and so on that are
relevant to the applicant & the
application. This takes out the endless
discussion here about what should be referred to
which causes such trouble.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The
applicant takes responsibility for ensuring that
they submit an application which addresses those
points and avoids an objection (all applicants
are highly motivated to avoid objections). An
objector must use those standards; pay for
making the objection and submit it within
appropriate time frames. Evaluators then take
those objections into account in evaluation. An
objector (whoever they are) must accept that
their objection may be discarded by evaluators.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Then we can
close off the endless circular differences
between jurisdictions and we focus on the real
work that takes place for an applicant in an
application process.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I look
forward to hearing more from colleagues because
this could apply to a) any application and b)
geographic terms in particular. Our policy
recommendation then comes around to open
process, objective criteria, assumption of
compliance with law, competition and
innovation. The points above are then
implementation guidelines that improve an AGB.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Liz</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">..</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dr Liz
Williams | International Affairs</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">.au Domain
Administration Ltd</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">M: +61 436
020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">E: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3ewww.auda.org.au%3chttp://www.auda.org.au%3e%3chttp://www.auda.org.au/%3e%3chttp://www.auda.org.au%3chttp://www.auda.org.au/%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:liz.williams@auda.org.au><<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au><mailto:liz.williams@auda.<wbr>org.au<mailto:liz.williams@<wbr>auda.org.au>>www.auda.org.au<<wbr>http://www.auda.org.au><http:/<wbr>/www.auda.org.au/><http://www.<wbr>auda.org.au<http://www.auda.<wbr>org.au/></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Important
Notice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">This email
may contain information which is confidential
and/or subject to legal privilege, and is
intended for the use of the named addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, you
must not use, disclose or copy any part of this
email. If you have received this email by
mistake, please notify the sender and delete
this message immediately.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 4 May
2018, at 4:50 am, Mike Rodenbaugh <<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com><mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com><mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com<mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com>></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Maybe Staff
can help compile any such laws and cases related
to domains? We should deal with concrete
examples, as I have given re 4 TLD applications
from the last round.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Mike
Rodenbaugh</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">RODENBAUGH
LAW</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="http://rodenbaugh.com%3chttp:/rodenbaugh.com/%3e%3chttp:/rodenbaugh.com/%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com<http://<wbr>rodenbaugh.com/><http://<wbr>rodenbaugh.com/></a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Thu, May
3, 2018 at 10:32 AM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m<wbr>ailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Mike</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">There are
similar laws in other countries. For Switzerland
you can look it up online quite easily (in
various languages). There is case-law but I
guess the court decisions will be in German and
French.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Besides,
limits to register solely city names and other
geographic terms as such as trademarks or
business names are also common...</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On the other
hand, as said before, rights on brands are
limited to specific categories of products and
services...</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In the end,
as said, you have different interests converging
on a single string, where in our opinion the
public interest is paramount.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Von: Mike
Rodenbaugh <<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com><mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com<mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Datum: 3.
Mai 2018 um 19:26:08 MESZ</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An: Cancio
Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m<wbr>ailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: Gregory
S. Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:gregshatanipc@gmail.com><<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com<mailto:gregshatanipc@<wbr>gmail.com>></a>>,
<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net></a>>
<<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>></a>>,
<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org></a>>
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I would like
to see the text of such laws, and any cases that
apply them to domain names. I guess there might
be one in France too, but I haven't dug into the
particulars of the French legal proceedings re
France.com<<a
href="http://france.com/%3e%3chttp:/France.com%3chttp:/france.com/%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://france.com/><wbr><http://France.com<http://<wbr>france.com/></a>>.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Mike
Rodenbaugh</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">RODENBAUGH
LAW</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="http://rodenbaugh.com%3chttp:/rodenbaugh.com/%3e%3chttp:/rodenbaugh.com/%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com<http://<wbr>rodenbaugh.com/><http://<wbr>rodenbaugh.com/></a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Thu, May
3, 2018 at 10:19 AM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m<wbr>ailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>><<wbr>mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>>></a><wbr>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Mike</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I mentioned
some, eg in Switzerland cities have rights to
protect their names under the civil code (art.
29), and provisions prevent the registration of
business names and trademarks that solely
consist of city names.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">best</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Von: Mike
Rodenbaugh <<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a><<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com><mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com<mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com>><mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com<mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com><mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com<mailto:<wbr>mike@rodenbaugh.com>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Datum: 3.
Mai 2018 um 19:06:27 MESZ</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An: Cancio
Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m<wbr>ailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>><<wbr>mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>>></a><wbr>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: Gregory
S. Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:gregshatanipc@gmail.com><<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com<mailto:gregshatanipc@<wbr>gmail.com>><mailto:<wbr>gregshatanipc@gmail.com<<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com><mailto:gregshatanipc@<wbr>gmail.com<mailto:<wbr>gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>></a>>,
<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>></a>>
<<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3e%3e,gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>>>>,gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>></a>>
<<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge, what
law provides for governments to claim superior
rights to geographic (or any other) domain
names? I am not aware of any, so am eager to be
enlightened if they exist.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Mike</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Mike
Rodenbaugh</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">RODENBAUGH
LAW</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="http://rodenbaugh.com%3chttp:/rodenbaugh.com/%3e%3chttp:/rodenbaugh.com/%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com<http://<wbr>rodenbaugh.com/><http://<wbr>rodenbaugh.com/></a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Thu, May
3, 2018 at 2:49 AM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m<wbr>ailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>><<wbr>mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>>><wbr><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>><<wbr>mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>>><wbr>></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Mike</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks for
your input.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In the end
we have different bodies, entities etc. holding
interests on one single string. In our view
(Swiss perspective), public interest provides
for clear limits to private monopolization over
geographic names such as city names - this is
reflected in law.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best regards</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Von: Mike
Rodenbaugh [<a
href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3cmailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com<<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com><<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com<<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com>><<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com<<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com><<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com<<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com>>><<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com<<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com><<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com<<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com>><<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com<<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com><<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com<<wbr>mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com>>>></a><wbr>]</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gesendet:
Donnerstag, 3. Mai 2018 09:49</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An: Cancio
Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m<wbr>ailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>><<wbr>mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>>><wbr><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>><<wbr>mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>>><wbr>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: Gregory
S. Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:gregshatanipc@gmail.com><<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com<mailto:gregshatanipc@<wbr>gmail.com>><mailto:<wbr>gregshatanipc@gmail.com<<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com><mailto:gregshatanipc@<wbr>gmail.com<mailto:<wbr>gregshatanipc@gmail.com>>><<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com<mailto:gregshatanipc@<wbr>gmail.com><mailto:<wbr>gregshatanipc@gmail.com<<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com>><mailto:gregshatanipc@<wbr>gmail.com<mailto:<wbr>gregshatanipc@gmail.com><<wbr>mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com<mailto:gregshatanipc@<wbr>gmail.com>>>></a>>;
<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3e%3e;gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>>>>;gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Governments
also have infinite, obvious alternatives to
<.city> TLDs, such as
<.citygovernment>, <.citycouncil>,
<.citytourism>, etc. Perhaps
surprisingly, governments have managed to
survive for the past 30 years even though they
have not had the legal the right to "their" <<a
href="http://city.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">city.com</a><<a
href="http://city.com/%3e%3chttp:/city.com/%3e%3chttp:/city.com%3chttp:/city.com/%3e%3chttp:/city.com/%3e%3e%3chttp:/city.com%3chttp:/city.com/%3e%3chttp:/city.com/%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://city.com/><<wbr>http://city.com/><http://city.<wbr>com<http://city.com/><http://<wbr>city.com/>><http://city.com<<wbr>http://city.com/><http://city.<wbr>com/>></a>>
or even <city.ccTLD> second level domain
names. They still have no such legal right at
any level of the DNS. Some governments' fantasy
to own such rights is just that, fantasy.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">To be sure,
ICANN is not the proper body to grant
governments such a right. But unfortunately,
ICANN went far too far in the last round
kowtowing to governments, and requiring the
"non-objection" letter. That led to outright
extortion by such well known geographic areas as
SPA and BAR, among others, who had nothing more
that a fantasy to control TLD rights to that
name, plus ICANN's ill-advised,
non-community-consensus requirement of the
non-objection letter. As I recall (and I could
be wrong and will eat my shoe), that was an
ICANN Staff implementation gift, not part of the
consensus policy passed by GNSO and the
Board. Even if it was, it was ill-advised then,
and should be eliminated for future rounds.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Country
codes have been given special status in the DNS
with ccTLDs and correspondent restrictions at
the second level of the New gTLDs. That was an
original gift to national governments, extended
stupidly to the second level by ICANN in the
last round, solely to appease government
obstructionists in that last round. Subsidiary
governments need to get over this; they don't
have further rights to "their" name in the
DNS. Period.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Paris,
France has no greater rights to .PARIS than
Paris, Texas. Or Paris Hilton. Period. But I
would love to hear them fight out that
issue. ICANN certainly should not have
predetermined it in favor of France or Texas, to
the detriment of Ms. Hilton (and so many other
legitimate users of the word Paris). All three
of those parties (at least) had equal rights to
that TLD, and should have been put into a
contention set to resolve it.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In
substantial part, governments continue to rehash
arguments made by IGOs in the various IGO Names
policy discussions. Those IGOs get nowhere with
the broader GNSO community because they only
have fantasy rights to "their" names (in many
cases) and acronyms (in almost all cases). So
they scream to the Board and have delayed
finality in those discussions for half a decade
already. But the GNSO is never going to agree
with them, and the GNSO has primary TLD policy
responsibility under the Bylaws, not the
GAC. Eventually, the Board must side with the
GNSO, though they will put that off forever if
they can, as they have done with IGO Names
issues.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">This GNSO
group ought not be considering government
pressure or fantasy rights. If the Board wants
to do so, that is their prerogative. We need to
develop policy in the real world, where
governments coexist with businesses and other
users of "their" names. They have done so for
30 years. I am confident in stating that not a
single government has fallen, nor even been
harmed, by the ability of absolutely anyone to
register "their" name at the second level or at
the top level. Until any such harm is shown,
why are we even discussing this? What problem
are we trying to solve, exactly?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Mike
Rodenbaugh</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">RODENBAUGH
LAW</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="http://rodenbaugh.com%3chttp:/rodenbaugh.com/%3e%3chttp:/rodenbaugh.com/%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://rodenbaugh.com<http://<wbr>rodenbaugh.com/><http://<wbr>rodenbaugh.com/></a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Wed, May
2, 2018 at 11:28 PM, <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3cmailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">m<wbr>ailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>><<wbr>mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>>><wbr><mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>><<wbr>mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.<wbr>admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@<wbr>bakom.admin.ch><mailto:Jorge.<wbr>Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:<wbr>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>>><wbr>></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear all</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The
fundamental flaw with such an approach is that
it forgets that TLDs are unique. There can be
only one TLD with a given city name. there can
be only one delegation of such a string.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">City
governments have political, social, historical,
economic and legal responsibilities over their
cities, and have (at least in Switzerland and
other countries) rights on the names of their
cities. There might be several cities with the
same name, but under the 2012 AGB you had to
obtain the non-objection from all of them if
that was the case.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">As for
brands there may be unlimited numbers of
business names and trademarks that use a given
city name, usually as part of their names (e.g.
City "insurances", City "salami", City
"whatever".) and with figurative elements beyond
the name as such (the color, the font, symbols,
etc.). For instance in Switzerland you are not
allowed to register a city name as such as a
business name - because this would mean that a
private business is monopolizing that geographic
name.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hence the
crux, resolved in 2012 by the non-objection
letter, was that several interests (public
interests of a wide spectrum represented by the
cities, community interests and multiple
commercial interests in the form of brands) may
converge on one string, one city name, one TLD.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The
non-objection letter was and is in our view a
good way to get the more specific interests
backing one application to a table with those
who represent the corresponding city (and its
public policy interests), in order to try to
arrive at a mutually acceptable solution.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best regards</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jorge</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Von:
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr>bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org<mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org><mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-<wbr>wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org>>><<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr>bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org<mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org><mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-<wbr>wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org>>>></a>]
Im Auftrag von Greg Shatan</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gesendet:
Donnerstag, 3. Mai 2018 06:27</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An: Marita
Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: Icann
Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Betreff: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">We need to
distinguish between two major groups of
potential use cases that arise when there is an
application for a string that (among other
things) is a geographic term:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">1. The Geo
Case: The case where a new gTLD applicant want
to operate the gTLD as a "geographic" TLD (e.g.,
.berlin, .nyc, .africa)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">2. The
Non-Geo Case: The case where a new gTLD wants to
operate the gTLD as something other than a
geographic TLD -- a .brand, a generic gTLD, a
restricted gTLD (e.g., .tata, .spa, .amazon,
.patagonia)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">For the Geo
Case, it may be that there are few instances
where support/non-objection letters caused
problems in the 2012 round. One "problem"
instance is .africa. One would have to look at
the universe of cases to determine whether all
the rest worked well or not.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">For the
Non-Geo Case, it is clear that there were
multiple instances where support/non-objection
letters or similar exercises of power did cause
problems. We can start with all four of the
examples I've cited above. I would be curious
to know if there were Non-Geo Cases that didn't
have problems.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I think we
have to consider these use cases
separately. The considerations that apply when
a TLD will be operated as a geo TLD (e.g., Roma
for Romans) do not apply when the TLD will be
operated for other purposes (e.g., .sandwich for
a food-related TLD -- Sandwich, MA was
incorporated in 1639 and named after Sandwich,
England, which is obviously older). Blending
them together just obscures the issues.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Greg</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Wed, May
2, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Marita Moll <<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3cmailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net><mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net<mailto:<wbr>mmoll@ca.inter.net>>>></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Yes, cities
can have long history in older cultures -- wars
were fought and people died over them.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In Canada,
municipal governments are subdivisions of their
province. While they have autonomy on most
decisions, all by-laws passed are subject to
change by the provincial government at any time.
So cities exist at the pleasure of the
provincial governments.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Leaves one
to wonder if the province could deny the city
the right to it's TLD.:-( This is a pretty
slippery slope......</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Marita</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 5/2/2018
11:17 AM, Yrjö Länsipuro wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear all,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cities have
been founded, incorporated and given various
privileges - including their names - in the
course of history by kings and emperors and
other assorted authorities, and in my
non-lawyer´s mind, documents attesting to those
acts, scribbled on parchment or whatever, are
the legal basis. More important, from end-users´
point of view, is the political ownership felt
by the citizens.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">For
reference, attached please find an excerpt of
the founding document of my home city
Tampere/Tammerfors in 1779, signed by king
Gustaf III.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Best,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Yrjö</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">[cid:<a
href="mailto:image001.png@01D3E2D4.C11E9F30"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">image001.png@01D3E2D4.<wbr>C11E9F30</a>]</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>__</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">From:
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-<wbr>wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org><<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr>bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org>><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org<mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org>>>><<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr>bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org<mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org><mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-<wbr>wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org>>></a>>
on behalf of Alexander Schubert <<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a><<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3e%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3e%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3e%3e%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3e%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3cmailto:alexander@schubert.berlin%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mai<wbr>lto:alexander@schubert.berlin><wbr><mailto:alexander@schubert.<wbr>berlin<mailto:alexander@<wbr>schubert.berlin>>><mailto:<wbr>alexander@schubert.berlin<<wbr>mailto:alexander@schubert.<wbr>berlin><mailto:alexander@<wbr>schubert.berlin<mailto:<wbr>alexander@schubert.berlin>><<wbr>mailto:alexander@schubert.<wbr>berlin<mailto:alexander@<wbr>schubert.berlin><mailto:<wbr>alexander@schubert.berlin<<wbr>mailto:alexander@schubert.<wbr>berlin>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Sent:
Wednesday, May 2, 2018 5:16 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">To: <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Subject: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Greg,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">You write:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">
"...but a 'first right' based on a geographic
name is troublesome on several levels. But one
fundamental question jumps out -- what right is
this first right based on?"</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">If we talk
about sizeable (or otherwise "important")
cities:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Nobody has a
"first right" obviously. Why should anybody. But
if a string is (should be) poised to serve as
identifier for a sizeable amount of people (e.g.
larger cities) - I think we do not have to
search for "international law"; it should be
self-evident that such an infrastructure
resource like a city-gTLD is NOT assigned
lightly to "some entity" - but that the
representatives of the city are looped in. There
is morality and a "sense of common good" OUTSIDE
of established law. At least in Good Old Europe.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">But I
completely agree with you if we talk about
"minor" geographical entities - such as a small
stream or a hill. Or a tiny dwelling somewhere
in the nowhere. Especially if there is an entity
that is MUCH better known to the public (e.g. a
well-known brand vs. a small mountain) or if it
is identical to a generic term: ".new" and the
New River.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The big
question is: How do we policy the line that
separates the entities that deserve "protection"
from the rest? A repository? Lists of any sort?
Population size? Or maybe a panel that decides
case by case (caution: Beauty contest alarm)?
But having no protections at all is not going to
work. To LOWER the already low bar is bonkers in
my mind. I wish GAC would pay more attention -
there are forces trying to take away DNS
infrastructure from The People.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Alexander.berlin</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">From:
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr>bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org<mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.<wbr>org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-<wbr>wt5-bounces@icann.org><mailto:<wbr>gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@<wbr>icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-<wbr>wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org>>></a>]
On Behalf Of Greg Shatan</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Sent:
Wednesday, May 02, 2018 7:42 AM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">To: David
Cake <<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>dave@davecake.net><mailto:<wbr>dave@davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net>><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net>>>><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net>><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Cc: leonard
obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><wbr><<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>></a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Subject: Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city
names</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I find
myself generally in agreement with Liz
Williams. There are more nuances to unpack than
I have time for, but a "first right" based on a
geographic name is troublesome on several
levels. But one fundamental question jumps out
-- what right is this first right based on? Is
there a legal basis for this? (Jorge tells us
that his government would make a decision "based
on law", so it would be useful to know what law
we're talking about.) Requiring a "letter of
support or non-objection" is also troublesome
and not just for the reasons Liz mentions. (I
hope we do not have to pore through each of the
letters of support/non-objection from the first
round to highlight the problems they cause, but
if we are going to, this should be a job for the
WG as a whole, not an assignment for Liz.) I
recognize that, as Jorge say, it "works well for
governments." Well, of course it does! It
completely favors governments, and was imposed
by governments (i.e., the GAC). The problem is
that it doesn't work well for anyone else, and
it is not well-grounded in the rule of law
(unless we are thinking of something akin to the
droit de seigneur, or perhaps the Divine Right
of Kings).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I don't know
if I'll be able to be on any part of the call
starting shortly, since it is running from
1-2:30 am my time, and I don't do well on 4
hours of sleep.... If am not, please accept my
apologies.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Greg</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Mon, Apr
30, 2018 at 11:48 PM, David Cake <<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dave@davecake.net</a><<a
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3cmailto:dave@davecake.net%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:<wbr>dave@davecake.net><mailto:<wbr>dave@davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net>><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net>>><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net>><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net><mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net<mailto:dave@<wbr>davecake.net>>>></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Perth is not
even unique within Australia, there is a small
town in Tasmania. But the point about ambiguity
remaining even if we restrict it to concepts
like 'capital' is a very good one.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">David
(resident of the Western Australian Perth)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On 30 Apr
2018, at 1:18 pm, Liz Williams <<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mail<wbr>to:liz.williams@auda.org.au><<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au<mailto:liz.williams@auda.<wbr>org.au>><mailto:liz.williams@<wbr>auda.org.au<mailto:liz.<wbr>williams@auda.org.au><mailto:<wbr>liz.williams@auda.org.au<<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au>>><mailto:liz.williams@<wbr>auda.org.au<mailto:liz.<wbr>williams@auda.org.au><mailto:<wbr>liz.williams@auda.org.au<<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au>><mailto:liz.williams@auda.<wbr>org.au<mailto:liz.williams@<wbr>auda.org.au><mailto:liz.<wbr>williams@auda.org.au<mailto:<wbr>liz.williams@auda.org.au>>>></a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hello
everyone</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I wanted to
start a new thread of conversation about city
names ahead of our upcoming conference call.
We are being encouraged by our co-chairs to
think about city names as TLDs. The first point
is, perhaps, to recognise the "success" of some
previous city TLDs including Berlin, Paris, NYC
and so on. Those applications went through very
specific requirements for evaluation and, now,
hopefully serve the requirements of local
communities. We should hope that, in any new
round, the experiences of those cities will ease
the way for future applications because we have
learnt something about how and why applicants
apply for place names (and I use the word place
deliberately) as top level domain labels.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">For our next
round of policy recommendations I wanted to use
an example which I think highlights the
difficulties we face if we are prescriptive and
limited in our analysis.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Most of us
know that Perth is the capital city of Western
Australia. It is not the capital city of
Australia as Canberra has that honour. Relying
on a "is the word a capital city" question is
fraught with difficulty. It is difficult
because Perth, Scotland, has at a bare minimum
had city status since the 12th century, far
longer than Perth, Australia which also has an
indigenous place name, its colonial name and a
migrant demographic where the largest majority
of Perth residents come from England. Things
are complicated by the existence of Perth in
Canada which, in its own right, has some
features of a capital and, at the very least,
some important historic linkages.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">And then we
turn to the generic words which Jon Nevett
highlighted in a previous post (Bath, Save, New)
which are also place names.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">That leads
us to what can we usefully and objectively
recommend as treatment of other names which are
also linked to places and how those could be
treated as top level domains. As a starting
point, my recommendation would be that we don't
have any special treatment for place names as
TLDs and that applicants for those names would
be evaluated against other business and
technical criteria just like another
application. However, we might want to think
about better ways of handling an
objection. Those objections, from whatever
quarter, need to be treated in exactly the same
way. I don't recommend "letters of support or
non-objection". They are too subjective,
fraught with movable political nuance and, in
some cases, deeply sensitive geo-political facts
(using Jerusalem as the example).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I look
forward to hearing the views of others.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Liz</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">..</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dr Liz
Williams | International Affairs</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">.au Domain
Administration Ltd</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">M: +61 436
020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">E: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
liz.williams@auda.org.au</a><<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3cmailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailt<wbr>o:liz.williams@auda.org.au><<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au<mailto:liz.williams@auda.<wbr>org.au>><mailto:liz.williams@<wbr>auda.org.au<mailto:liz.<wbr>williams@auda.org.au><mailto:<wbr>liz.williams@auda.org.au<<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au>>><mailto:liz.williams@<wbr>auda.org.au<mailto:liz.<wbr>williams@auda.org.au><mailto:<wbr>liz.williams@auda.org.au<<wbr>mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au>><mailto:liz.williams@auda.<wbr>org.au<mailto:liz.williams@<wbr>auda.org.au><mailto:liz.<wbr>williams@auda.org.au<mailto:<wbr>liz.williams@auda.org.au>>></a>>
<a href="http://www.auda.org.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.auda.org.au</a><<a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/%3e%3chttp:/www.auda.org.au/%3e%3chttp:/www.auda.org.au%3chttp:/www.auda.org.au/%3e%3chttp:/www.auda.org.au/%3e%3e%3chttp:/www.auda.org.au/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.<wbr>auda.org.au/><http://www.auda.<wbr>org.au/><http://www.auda.org.<wbr>au<http://www.auda.org.au/><<wbr>http://www.auda.org.au/>><<wbr>http://www.auda.org.au/</a>></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Important
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>></a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>></a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>></a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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<div>
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href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3e%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org>>></a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3cmailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org%3e"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org><mailto:Gnso-<wbr>newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<<wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org></a>></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org</a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org</a>></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list
<a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><<a
href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org</a>>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><wbr>mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@<wbr>icann.org</a>></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
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