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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Hi Marita,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>I understand what you intend to do. However: The large cities do not create a headache at all. There aren’t identical generic terms. There are not many identical brands that might apply for a gTLD. It is the smaller (but still sizeable enough) entities that build the picket fence separating us from the vast masses of tiny places priding themselves as “cities”. And obviously if we pick ANY population size below 100,000 – all cities mentioned in your list are protected as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>I would like to add, that in my proposal there won’t anymore be the exception of “intended use”: Regardless of the “intended use” (brand, generic term, etc); each single city that makes the cut-off amount needs to provide a letter of non-objection. This also solves the problem of multiple cities with the same name (Cambridge) apply: In order to get that letter the gTLD operator WILL have to recognize the needs and specifics (reserved names, names that go to the city council, blacklists, etc) of the “other” city. I think these will be very rare cases. There won’t also be many brands (or generic term applicants) that would be required to provide such letter. A minor inconvenience for very (if any) few that creates benefits and protections for many.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Alexander.berlin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='color:windowtext'> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marita Moll<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 08, 2018 5:28 PM<br><b>To:</b> gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>Hi. I only suggested the 1M because there is already an official list -- and it is a pretty long list! It is a starting point only. We would have to accommodate for smaller sizes, set further conditions for smaller cities -- a capital, a percentage of population of the country perhaps. To me, just getting the elephants out of the room makes the job more manageable.<span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p>Marita<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 5/8/2018 9:50 AM, Alexander Schubert wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Hi Marita,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Obviously (if we go the route of a cut-off size) we would have to get suggestions for the amount of inhabitants. A MILLION people city (even if measured by the metropolitan area) is in my mind WAY too big. This would be a quite short list – and leaves too many out in the rain. Living in the Baltics: a Million people is half Latvia or almost entire Estonia. No Baltic city would be protected – and I can rattle off at least 5 in Latvia alone that would not be happy about it. Or look at Switzerland: I am pretty sure that they will go for a NUMBER of city gTLDs over time – yet NONE of their cities has a million people! Not even NEAR. <br><br>I see no harm to set the cut-off size to an amount between 10k and 50k people. It is very unlikely that too many “brands” or “generic string” applications would be affected (they can still apply ; just need the letter) – and while weeding out the masses of smallish places it still provides ample protections to places with sizeable population. At 50k or below obviously we would talk about the “proper city” size – not the metropolitan area.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='color:windowtext'> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marita Moll<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 08, 2018 4:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Just bringing us back to this possible solution -- we don't have to reinvent the wheel. We could set the size of a city at 1 million or more residents within the metropolitan area as identified by the U.N. -- i.e. <a href="http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/publications/pdf/urbanization/the_worlds_cities_in_2016_data_booklet.pdf">http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/publications/pdf/urbanization/the_worlds_cities_in_2016_data_booklet.pdf</a> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I think anything this large has some inherent rights that a shoe company (or any other commercial venture) would not have. Cities satisfying this condition would be on a priority list. This would cover a large swath of the problems re city gTLDs. For the rest, I agree with Alexander's points below. <br><br>Marita Moll<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 5/7/2018 2:25 PM, Alexander Schubert wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Paul,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I think there is already a valid solution on the table:<br><br>A population size cut-off: A city gets only “priority” if it has more than “X” inhabitants. And ONLY all cities with identical name and more than “X” inhabitants have to provide a letter! Easy solution – and MUCH better than depriving ALL inhabitants of ALL cities of their ability to identify themselves via their city gTLD: one that is approved by the city and therefore likely an effort by the constituents of said city: and not some money-hungry “gTLD investors” which want to flood the market with THOUSANDS of uniform gTLDs as profit centers and cash cows.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<br><br>Alexander.berlin<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rosenzweig<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 07, 2018 4:47 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>; <a href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no">annebeth.lange@norid.no</a>; <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>If your proposal really is that every city in the world that has Athens in its name must sign off on who gets Athens or that the city of Sandwich MA (as small but pleasant place BTW) can stop the delegation of Sandwich, I disagree.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My feasible solution is simple – nobody gets priority. When/If the .sandwich TLD is offered up, everyone should get notice of that fact. We might even send as special invitatation to Sandwich MA and Sandwich, UK (and any other Sandwichs out there) all of who can, if they choose, submit applications. The one that meets the criteria best, gets the TLD, just like in any other auction. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Works quite well. And if the .Sandwich folks run afoul of local Sandwich law in the UK, they’ll have to deal with it in the UK. Your proposal that “it is up to the parties” to get the best result is exactly right. The problem is that you would give Lucerne a veto power. Everyone who studies economics knows that this sort of priority causes rent-seeking, distorts markets and is economically counter-productive. I understand why Lucerne wants to export its rights globally. I would too in their position. But recognizing local law applied locally is not the same as giving global effect to Swiss law.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Paul Rosenzweig</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>M: +1 (202) 329-9650</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>VOIP: +1 (202) 738 1739</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a> <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 7, 2018 9:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>; <a href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no">annebeth.lange@norid.no</a>; <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> AW: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Conference call: city names<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks for dropping that „international law“ „requirement”. It certainly would be useful if you also considered the importance of the Bylaws provision that ICANN has to act in conformity with applicable local law. You may not like that, but it is a fact of the framework we work with.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Apart from that, as far as I know this discussion about “letter of non-objection” is about obtaining a non-objection from the relevant public authorities. If there are multiple cities with the very same name, from all of them equally, as is provided for in the AGB.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Obtaining the letter of non-objection is a requirement for the application to go forward, but does not give you a “right” to the TLD – that will depend on complying with all the other requirements and going through all the process. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>And obtaining such a letter is open to any interested applicants, be it brand owners with interests on trademarks which may coincide with that city name, be it communities, be it private business, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>It is up to the parties to come up with the best agreement in their shared interest.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I would appreciate that you would propose constructive and feasible solutions that would respect the interests and rights of cities in their names. Just ignoring such interests and rights is the best recipe for protracted conflicts between applicants and relevant public authorities, which is something we have seen happening in some applications regarding terms with geographic significance not falling under the “non-objection” rule.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Best regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Jorge </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif'><br><br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman ,serif",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>