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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Marita,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>This is part of the trade-off:<br><br>Only applications for strings identical to SIZEABLE cities have to produce Government support – in exchange the “non-geo use” clause is eliminated!<br><br>Obviously if somebody wanted to apply for .pienza to enable that 2,000 people community to identify themselves on the Internet: go for it. But why having extra “protections” for such a small geo-entity? Nobody is going to apply for .pienza anyways – too small. <br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Alexander<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marita Moll<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Qualifying the threshold for requirement of letters of non-objection!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p> I have heard that in Italy a city is any grouping of people that has a cathedral and a bishop. (Maybe someone on the list can confirm this.) I just visited one (Pienza) that has only 2000 people and does have a mayor, so some form of government. So, if it is a city and does have a government but is well below the population cut off, how would the provisions below protect Pienza (or not)?<o:p></o:p></p><p>Marita<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 5/17/2018 1:14 AM, Alexander Schubert wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Susan,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Either I have not expressed myself precise enough – or I am misunderstood:<br><br>In the 2012 AGB it clearly states “city name”. I think the requirement to produce a letter of non-objection from the city’s government implies that only city’s that HAVE any form of Government are targeted by this rule. Rock doesn’t have any “Government” – it is such a small village (1,200 people) that it is governed by others. There is a reference to “city government” in Module 2, page 18 of 42, 2.2.1.4.2 in 2b – there in the reference 7 (<a href="https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb/evaluation-procedures-04jun12-en.pdf">https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb/evaluation-procedures-04jun12-en.pdf</a>):<br></span><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6'>“City governments with concerns about strings that are duplicates, nicknames or close renderings of a city name should not rely</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6'>on the evaluation process as the primary means of protecting their interests in a string. Rather, a government may elect to file a</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6'>formal objection to an application that is opposed by the relevant community, or may submit its own application for the string.”</span></i></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><br>This language clearly implies that “city” in respect to the support requirement is defined as a place that has its own “Government”. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br>I am very much in agreement with you that the 2012 AGB specification “city name” is a disaster. It’s not really defined and way too broad. By introducing a population-size cutoff we eliminate all the smallish places that nobody really would ever create a geo gTLD for anyways – so brands and generic term applications have free reign! These smaller places can still OBJECT to an application – example would be “Aspen”.<br><br>And this is precisely one of our tasks here: to unearth language and provisions of the 2012 AGB that maybe “worked” in 2012 – but likely create confusion in future rounds. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br>Thanks,<br><br>Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Susan Payne [<a href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com">mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 17, 2018 12:41 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>; <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Qualifying the threshold for requirement of letters of non-objection!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Well Alexander, this is a perfect example of why if you are going to agree with the wide-ranging and imprecise assertions of others then it would be well to be clear exactly what you are agreeing with. You actually do not agree with Christopher at all –or at least in large part.</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>What’s called a city seems to vary greatly from country to country. I’ve been to UK fishing villages that are bigger than “cities” in some other countries. The AGB just refers to a “city” but without defining what that is. Not that there’s any basis at law of course for the AGB city consent requirements, just for the avoidance of doubt.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#76923C'>Susan Payne</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#76923C'>Head of Legal Policy</span></b><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>| </span><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#C39209'>Valideus Ltd</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>28-30 Little Russell StreetWell </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>London, WC1A 2HN, United Kingdom</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>E: </span><span lang=EN-GB><a href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#76923C'>susan.payne@valideus.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>D: +44 20 7421 8255</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>T: +44 20 7421 8299</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>M: +44 7971 661175</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander Schubert<br><b>Sent:</b> 16 May 2018 22:33<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Qualifying the threshold for requirement of letters of non-objection!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Susan,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Your comment is very valuable:<br><br>We HAVE to prevent that places like “rock” have veto rights over brand or generic term based gTLDs! The “Rock” (in Cornwall) you mentioned is a “fishing village” – and as such DOESN’T require any letter of non-objection per the 2012 AGB at all! But the point itself is well taken:<br><br>We need to qualify a threshold for protection – most likely by quantifying the population! If we have a 10,000 (or 50,000) inhabitant cut-off: the overlay between those sizeable cities and brands and or generic terms is MINIMAL! <br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Alexander</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Payne<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 17, 2018 12:23 AM<br><b>To:</b> Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu">lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a> Wilkinson <<a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu">lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Agreed Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Christopher, you appear to be suggesting that the term “rock” since it happens to be the name of at least one small town in Cornwall, England, and possibly elsewhere, could not be used as a TLD by geologists, landscapers, musicians, etc etc. On what possible legal, or indeed policy, basis? So no, you may not take that as agreed.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#76923C'>Susan Payne</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#76923C'>Head of Legal Policy</span></b><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>| </span><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#C39209'>Valideus Ltd</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>28-30 Little Russell Street</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>London, WC1A 2HN, United Kingdom</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>E: </span><span lang=EN-GB><a href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#76923C'>susan.payne@valideus.com</span></a></span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>D: +44 20 7421 8255</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>T: +44 20 7421 8299</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>M: +44 7971 661175</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shatan<br><b>Sent:</b> 16 May 2018 21:46<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu">lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a> Wilkinson <<a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu">lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Christopher wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p style='font-size:1rem;word-spacing:1px'><span lang=EN-GB style='color:#313131'>3. The 2012 option of non-geo use of a geo-name should be abandoned. (Since there has been no objection on the List to that - repeated - proposition, may I take it that is agreed in WT5?)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>There has been significant— repeated — objection to that proposition, so no, you may not take it that it is agreed in WT5.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Thanks for the opportunity to clarify that.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 1:39 PM <a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu">lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a> Wilkinson <<a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu">lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p><span lang=EN-GB>Good afternoon:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB>With respect, this is the first time that I have perceived that in 2012, Geo-Names Review was different from the Geo-Names Panel. I shall try and get my head around that! </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB>Meanwhile, it would clearly be an advantage to have a review function available for ALL Geo-related applications, up front, BEFORE applicants and the mechanisms spend time and money on the approval procedures.<br><br>I have already posted several comments that would significantly reduce the risks and uncertainties for Geo-Names applications. <em>Pour Memoire:</em></span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB>1. The application should be from an entity within the jurisdiction of the geo-name in question, and the proposed TLD Registry should be incorporated in that jurisdiction. There should not be any incorporations in third country tax havens.<br><br>2. There should be strict limits on the number of TLDs that may be applied for by any one entity. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB>3. The 2012 option of non-geo use of a geo-name should be abandoned. (Since there has been no objection on the List to that - repeated - proposition, may I take it that is agreed in WT5?)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB>Thus, these few, realistic, boundary conditions would considerably reduce the scope and frequency of disputes during applications and during implementation.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB>CW</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB>PS: Since all applications for Geo-Names should have received non-objection letters from the appropriate authorities, I might imagine that the scope for String Contention would be considerably reduced if not eliminated.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>