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<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Here is an example I
just ran into. The city of Meissen in Germany -- pop. approx.
30,000 -- well known for it's porcelain industry which has been
part of this city since the 1700s. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">town url is indirect
(thank goodness for wikipedia which takes you there) =
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.stadt-meissen.de/">http://www.stadt-meissen.de/</a></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">The url meissen.de
leads you to meissen.com. That's the pottery factory. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Even the Meissen
summer school of Internet governance (euroSSIG) has the pottery
site posted instead of the town site -- accidently, I'm sure.
This sort of thing is confusing to endusers and we should seek
to avoid it or at least clearly outline it. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I assume that the
pottery factory got the top level because</font><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font face="Times New
Roman, Times, serif"> no letter of support was requested or
required. </font>Perhaps this is a common tradeoff in
Germany as I think I have seen it before. Does it make sense to
reserve double barrelled tags like meissen-city for this purpose?
Maybe it does. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"> If such examples
could be deconstructed, perhaps it would lead us to some defined
strategies on resolving such conflicts.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Marita <br>
</font></p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/4/2018 5:09 PM, Liz Williams
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B9601525-1745-4EAF-AE74-D1A6572DA372@auda.org.au">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Hello Kavouss
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am sorry I wasn’t clear. What I meant was that it
is entirely possible for an application to be submitted that
relates to a geographic location that is contested between one
or more parties and requiring government support would be an
unreasonable burden on a legitimate applicant. I can think of
many locations that could be interested in applying for a new
TLD but am reluctant to choose examples because that may be
inflammatory. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The central point is that “requiring” government
support for an application for a new TLD which is a geographic
identifier, as opposed to having that support as only one
element of evaluation criteria could be very unfair for
applicants. The freedom of speech/international rights experts
will be much better placed to make these arguments based on
international norms (for example, from the United Nations).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am urging us to think of different policy
principles that could be applied here…we are very close to that
if we stick with “objective, transparent, known in advance” and
so on. What we most certainly don’t want to do is create
implementation systems that could put ICANN evaluators in the
middle of picking winners in deeply political discussions which
have nothing to do with the management of the domain name
system.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Liz
<div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color:
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-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important;
float: none;" class="">….</span><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="caret-color: rgb(0,
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
display: inline !important; float: none;" class="">Dr Liz
Williams | International Affairs</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
display: inline !important; float: none;" class="">.au
Domain Administration Ltd</span><br style="caret-color:
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font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
display: inline !important; float: none;" class="">M: +61
436 020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Avenir;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
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class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
display: inline !important; float: none;" class="">E: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a> <a
href="http://www.auda.org.au" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">www.auda.org.au</a></span><br
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 4 Jun 2018, at 9:09 pm, Kavouss Arasteh
<<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Liz</div>
<div class="">I do not really understand the objectives
of your text below </div>
<div class="">C) legitimate dissent where a geographic
location is contested (in all forms of geographic and
cultural contest) but where it is entirely feasible
for a legitimate application to be submitted for which
freedom of expression is paramount. Mandating support
or “non-objection” is a guarantee of failure where the
applicant may have different views to the government
of the day.</div>
<div class="">Kavouss<span class=""></span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 9:08 AM,
Liz Williams <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="-ms-word-wrap: break-word;" class="">The
challenge with these kind of cut off
numbers/percentages/qualifiers is that they don’t
recognise the realities of
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A) numerous examples of where this
just doesn’t work when generic words clash with
trademarks which clash with geographic terms
where no one right is more valid than any other.</div>
<div class="">B) competing applications (from the
Perths or Londons or Rocks) of the world which
could be some of the largest cities in the world
to the tiniest island towns that want to connect
their unique identity to the global internet</div>
<div class="">C) legitimate dissent where a
geographic location is contested (in all forms
of geographic and cultural contest) but where it
is entirely feasible for a legitimate
application to be submitted for which freedom of
expression is paramount. Mandating support or
“non-objection” is a guarantee of failure where
the applicant may have different views to the
government of the day.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We must think clearly about neutral
measures for evaluators to measure
applications…not coming up with select lists
which we will, guaranteed, get wrong. </div>
<div class=""><span class="">Liz
<div class=""><span style="text-transform:
none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing:
normal; font-family: Avenir; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-weight:
normal; text-decoration: none;
word-spacing: 0px; float: none;
white-space: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; display: inline !important;"
class="">….</span><br
class="m_-7320750146751012538Apple-interchange-newline"
style="text-transform: none; text-indent:
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Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style:
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normal;">
<span style="text-transform: none;
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font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;
text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px;
float: none; white-space: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; display: inline
!important;" class="">Dr Liz Williams |
International Affairs</span><br
style="text-transform: none; text-indent:
0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family:
Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-weight: normal;
text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px;
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normal;" class="">
<span style="text-transform: none;
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font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;
text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px;
float: none; white-space: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; display: inline
!important;" class="">.au Domain
Administration Ltd</span><br
style="text-transform: none; text-indent:
0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family:
Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-weight: normal;
text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px;
white-space: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal;" class="">
<span style="text-transform: none;
text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal;
font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;
text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px;
float: none; white-space: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; display: inline
!important;" class="">M: +61 436 020 595 |
+44 7824 877757</span><br
style="text-transform: none; text-indent:
0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family:
Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-weight: normal;
text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px;
white-space: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal;" class="">
<span style="text-transform: none;
text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal;
font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;
text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px;
float: none; white-space: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; display: inline
!important;" class="">E: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a> <a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">ww<wbr class="">w.auda.org.au</a></span><br
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font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;
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<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 2 Jun 2018, at 12:15
pm, Justine Chew <<a
href="mailto:justine.chew@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">justine.chew@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="m_-7320750146751012538Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">Alexander,<br
class="">
<br class="">
I very much like the idea of a
percentage of citizens of a nation
as consideration for qualifying
select list of cities in order to
not exclude smaller cities from
protective measures enjoyed by
capital cities and ISO 3166
Alpha-2 subnational regions.
Percentages would work much better
than absolute values.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
class="" clear="all">
<div class="">
<div
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
Thank
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small;display:inline">
you for suggesting this.</div>
<br class="">
<br class="">
Justine <br class="">
-----</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 1 June
2018 at 23:28, Alexander
Schubert <span dir="ltr"
class="">
<<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div class="" lang="EN-US">
<div
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-m_1467855337704819413WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
name="m_-7320750146751012538_m_1467855337704819413__MailEndCompose"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">Greg,</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">So in other
words folks who are
trying to preserve
identity rights for
city inhabitants are
“GEO Supremacists” in
your eyes? I assume
you just want to
showcase your extreme
displeasure with the
suggested protective
measures. Just search
“USA supremacy” in
<a
href="http://google.com/"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">google.com</a>;
and you know why it
hurts to be called a
“supremacist”. Maybe
you weren’t aware how
insulting the term is.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""><br class="">
But trying to stay on
the topic matter:</span></p>
<p
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Symbol;font-size:11pt" class=""><span
class="">·<span
style="font:7pt/normal
"Times New
Roman";font-stretch:normal"
class="">
</span></span></span><b
class=""><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">I think we
have reached general
agreement that the
public
representatives for
inhabitants of
certain geo-entities
deserve the
unilateral right to
vet an identical
gTLD application.</span></b><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""></span></p>
<p
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:72pt">
<span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Courier
New";font-size:11pt" class=""><span class="">o<span
style="font:7pt/normal
"Times New
Roman";font-stretch:normal"
class="">
</span></span></span><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">And in the
languages that
matters! See Moscow:
Even when only a
smaller percentage of
Muscovites speaks
English – the gTLD is
bilingual; one gTLD in
English and an IDN
version in Russian.
Just the local
language isn’t enough
in a globalized world.
I am a good example in
this case: For my
Russian traveling I
use schubert.moscow –
and I wouldn’t want an
IDN version. I hope
it’s not too
“supremacist” when a
metropole desires
their well-known
global brand in the
English language as
well (being a capital
or not – Moscow was
covered as it is
capital).</span></p>
<p
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Symbol;font-size:11pt" class=""><span
class="">·<span
style="font:7pt/normal
"Times New
Roman";font-stretch:normal"
class="">
</span></span></span><b
class=""><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">Examples of
the above mentioned
agreed on protective
measures are capital
cities or ISO 3166
Alpha-2 subnational
regions.
</span></b></p>
<p
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Symbol;font-size:11pt" class=""><span
class="">·<span
style="font:7pt/normal
"Times New
Roman";font-stretch:normal"
class="">
</span></span></span><b
class=""><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">My
suggestion is that
we extend the same
rights to cities
once these meet a
certain threshold.</span></b><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">
</span></p>
<p
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:72pt">
<span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:"Courier
New";font-size:11pt" class=""><span class="">o<span
style="font:7pt/normal
"Times New
Roman";font-stretch:normal"
class="">
</span></span></span><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">You suggest
that this should be a
“select list”. So we
have to define the
threshold that defines
the “list”. This could
be an absolute number
of inhabitants – or a
percentage of citizens
– or the lower of both
values. Example: the
city needs to have at
minimum 250,000
inhabitants – or at
least 2.5% of the
nation’s population.
The exact measures
need to be explored.
This way in countries
with less than 10
Million people (and
that is WELL more than
half of all countries
in the world) slightly
smaller cities are
protected as well.
Latvia has 2 Million
people – 2.5% equals
50,000! That protects
4 cities aside of the
capital.
</span></p>
<p
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Symbol;font-size:11pt" class=""><span
class="">·<span
style="font:7pt/normal
"Times New
Roman";font-stretch:normal"
class="">
</span></span></span><b
class=""><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">If a city
doesn’t make the
“select list” the
2012 AGB rules
apply: government
support only
required if geo-use
intent.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">Thanks,<br
class="">
<br class="">
Alexander<br class="">
<br class="">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b
class=""><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class="">
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bo<wbr
class="">unces@icann.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf
Of </b>Greg Shatan<br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b>
Freitag, 1. Juni 2018
06:44<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b>
Marita Moll <<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>></span></p>
<div class="">
<div
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-h5"><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b>
Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Qualifying the
threshold for
requirement of letters
of non-objection!</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br
class="m_-7320750146751012538webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div
class="m_-7320750146751012538gmail-h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">I’m
in favor of TLDs
being applied
for and used as
city TLDs by
those cities or
on their behalf.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">I’m
open to the idea
that a very
small and
select list of
cities would
have
veto/blocking/consent/non-obje<wbr
class="">ction
privileges
(practically,
they’re all
pretty much the
same) over any
use of a string
identical to
their name (in
the language of
that city),
even for non-geo
uses.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">I’m
open to the idea
of a larger
group of cities
that would have
those
privileges, but
only in the
context of use
in connection
with that city.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">I’m
not in favor of
a general rule
based on the
geosupremacist
idea that a geo
use is superior
to all other
uses. I’m
really not in
favor of a
general rule
that
non-use/non-application
for geo purposes
should get in
the way of an
application for
another use of
that same
string.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Strings
have multiple
meanings and
uses. There is
no general rule
of a hierarchy
of rights among
legitimate uses
of that string.
There is
certainly no
hierarchy that
puts geo uses at
the top of the
list every time.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Greg</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Thu, May 31,
2018 at 7:54
PM Marita Moll
<<a
href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-width:medium
medium medium
1pt;border-style:none
none none
solid;border-color:currentColor
currentColor
currentColor
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:4.8pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<p class="">I
know I am a
bit late in
tuning into
these thoughts
by Alexander.
But it's never
too late to
say "well
said."</p>
<p class=""><span
style="font-family:Times,serif" class="">I am reminded that, in it's
earliest days,
the Internet
itself was
considered a
public
resource. Even
the slightest
bit of
advertising
was shunned!
We have come a
long way from
there. But we
still have a
chance to
retain some of
that original
spirit. </span>The
city domain
name space
could be seen
and managed as
a resource for
public benefit
as Alexander
suggests.
</p>
<p class="">And
that would
have to be by
design."It
doesn't happen
by accident."
<u class="">
</u></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class=""><span
style="font-family:Times,serif" class="">Marita Moll</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
5/22/2018
11:34 AM,
Alexander
Schubert
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><a
name="m_-7320750146751012538_m_1467855337704819413_m_-5000858957205867718__MailEndCompose"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">Dear
Liz,</span></a></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">I am
a domain
broker and
“domainer”
since 21 years
and have
consequently
analyzed the
market from
“inside” –
ESPECIALLY
when it comes
to newly
minted gTLDs.
I have
participated
in all new
gTLD
introductions
in the past,
from .info,
over .us
(liberation
in 2001), .eu
and so on. And
there is a
FUNDAMENTAL
difference
between a
historical
grown name
space like
“.com” or a
ccTLD and new
name spaces:<br
class="">
<br class="">
If 10% of
names in .com
or .de are
speculative
registrations
- .com will
survive just
fine. No
problem. But:<br
class="">
A new gTLD is
like a new
“land” – best
to be compared
with for
example Dubai.
Imagine the
rulers of
Dubai had sold
building lots
for “cost
value”; say
for US $2,000
per lot. They
would probably
have sold high
volumes – but
unlikely that
ANYTHING would
have really
being
developed
there. The
“dirt” would
have remained
what it is:
“dirt”.
Speculators
would have
speculated.<br
class="">
But wisely the
Dubai rulers
demanded from
all land
buyers to
DEVELOP their
land – and
build
something;
“something”
that by now is
the sparkling
community we
all know:
DUBAI!<br
class="">
<br class="">
In Chicago
there were
several blocks
of sub premium
land. Some
people bought
houses cheaply
– and did
NOTHING. But
others
developed the
land around –
and made the
area
“valuable”.
Guess how the
people who
bought cheap
and then
waited until
the area
became
valuable were
called? No.
Not “clever
investors”.
They were
labeled
“free-riders”.
They bought
cheap and did
nothing –
waited for the
land to
“mature” –
then sold for
prices that
were high due
to the work of
others. That’s
what “domain
investors” do:
they buy the
premium land –
let it sit for
5 to 10 years
– THEN SELL
for 1,000
times the
“investment”.
“Clever”?
Nope:
Mismanagement,
free-Riding
and damages
the
name-space:
nothing is
being
developed – no
“Sparkling
Dubai” – all
remains dirt.
Legal – but
doesn’t really
advance the
experience of
the Internet
user.<br
class="">
<br class="">
It’s all a
question of
public benefit
philosophy –
or the absence
of any.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Regarding
“local
business”:<br
class="">
Yes, of course
one could
argue that a
domain
tires.denver
owned by
speculator and
operating a
<a
href="http://tires.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">tires.com</a> Affiliate
website isn’t
too bad. After
all people in
Denver can buy
tires on the
website, and
the domain
owner
“invested
funds”, the
registry got
some money in
the premium
auction (e.g.
US $2k – even
if the domain
is worth US
$50k), and:
“all OK, no?”.
Free market,
and let the
registry do
what they
want.<br
class="">
My view on
this: A city
gTLD is a
VALUABLE
RESCOURCE,
that should
aid the city
community. It
should be
MANAGED – and
ideally in a
way that
impacting
domains like
business
verticals are
supporting
LOCAL
business. The
U.S. is
CHOKING on a
gigantic
import-export
deficit: stuff
is being
bought ABROAD
instead
nationally.
The same is
true for local
communities:
The Internet
serves as a
Trojan horse
to shift local
business
outside the
city. Tires
being bought
at a
<a
href="http://tires.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">tires.com</a> Affiliate
site displayed
at
tires.denver
shift revenue
OUTSIDE
Denver.
Apartments
leased via an
Affiliate site
at
apartments.denver
destroy local
real estate
businesses.
This list goes
on and on and
on. The huge
advantage of a
locally
MANAGED city
gTLD is to
ADVANCE LOCAL
BUSINESS!
Hence
“.denver”! If
you wanted to
buy tires
SOMEWHERE –
then do it.
But the very
idea of a
.city gTLD is
that it
promotes LOCAL
BUSINESSES!
And that
doesn’t happen
by “accident”
– it has to be
promoted and
MANAGED. And
the ones who
do that best
are the local
business
constituencies
– business
associations,
chambers,
etc.!</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">Imagine
somebody
bought a wood
(large
property full
of trees) for
cheap money –
and would
harvest ALL
trees, and
sell them at
once: Yes,
they would
make a profit.
Is it good for
the land? Nope
– the land
will erode.
Hence laws and
rules regulate
wood
harvesting.
It’s the same
with city
gTLDs. Selling
all the
premium
domains in
SEDO auctions
to “investors”
makes money –
and drives
registration
volume: but it
deprives the
namespace of
creating
“beacon”
domains that
serve as brand
ambassadors
for the city
gTLD.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Took me a few
years to
develop all
these
thoughts. I am
thinking about
community name
spaces since
2004. I love
earning money
– but I love
even more when
I serve people
while doing
so. Not all
life is about
making cash
fast.<br
class="">
<br class="">
So when a city
Government is
being
presented with
a city
constituencies
funded, owned,
managed and
marketed
“non-profit”
effort to
advance the
city – and on
the other hand
with an
operator that
merely “makes
the namespace
available”:
let the cities
representatives decide. I agree with you: ICANN should NOT “tell
applicants
where to base
their
business” or
how to operate
it. It’s fine
when there are
offshore based
portfolio
applicants
with large
amounts of VC
money running
around and
trying to
convince
cities to
operate a
valuable and
important city
infrastructure. But allow the city to decide whom they pick – don’t let
VC money
“brute force”
ownership of
city
namespaces.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Btw: Sadly the
“managing”
part wasn’t
well developed
in the first
batch of city
gTLDs. I think
this will
dramatically
change in the
next round.
</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""><br
class="">
Thanks,<br
class="">
<br class="">
Alexander</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class=""> </span></p>
<div class="">
<div
style="border-width:1pt
medium
medium;border-style:solid
none
none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225)
currentColor
currentColor;padding:3pt
0cm 0cm"
class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b
class=""><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class=""> Liz
Williams [<a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr
class="">au</a>]
<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b>
Dienstag, 22.
Mai 2018 06:39<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b>
Alexander
Schubert <a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
<alexander@schubert.berlin></a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b>
<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b>
Re:
[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
Qualifying the
threshold for
requirement of
letters of
non-objection!</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Hello
Alexander </p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">I
wanted to
explore a
little further
your assertion
that an
applicant for
a geo-TLD
should be
locally
based. Our
freedom of
expression/civil
liberties
colleagues
will have a
better handle
on those
imperatives
but I wonder
why one would
expect an
applicant to
be located in
the community
when, for
example, a
geographic
domain name
label may be a
means of
expressing
dissent or
difference
from the
current
government?
It is not a
pre-requisite
for ICANN to
be telling
applicants who
meet the
evaluation
criteria that
they should be
“local”. We
also know that
the Internet
enables us to
be wherever we
want to be to
do
business…that
is one of the
most amazing
characteristics
of the
Internet.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">It
is also not
desirable for
ICANN to tell
applicants
where they
should locate
their
businesses.
Organisations
legitimately
and perfectly
legally choose
the registered
location for
their
business based
on, for
example, tax
treatment,
ease of doing
business, rule
of law,
incentives for
entrepreneurs,
bandwidth and
timezone.
Those are all
good things we
wouldn’t want
to interfere
with.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">I
doubt that it
is supportable
to have a
prohibition on
entities
applying for
several
geographic
labels. What
if it were a
good thing
that an expert
registry
operator was
able to
provide
services to
communities in
unique and
attractive
ways? I would
have thought
that is a nice
niche business
that could
benefit
communities in
good ways? </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">And
finally, I
don’t
understand the
problem with
domain
investors.
Those domain
name owners
are legitimate
purchasers of
domain names
at the second
level. Many
registry
operators are
propped up by
those
investors and
the secondary
domain name
market is
active and
mature which
is another
indicator of
competition
and consumer
choice. I
think we can
all agree that
mis-using a
domain name,
whoever owns
it, isn’t a
desirable
market outcome
but there are
measures in
place to deal
with that.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Looking
forward to the
views of
others.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">Liz
</p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Avenir;font-size:9pt" class="">….<br class="">
Dr Liz
Williams |
International
Affairs<br
class="">
.au Domain
Administration
Ltd<br
class="">
M: +61 436 020
595 | +44 7824
877757<br
class="">
E: <a
href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a> <a
href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">ww<wbr
class="">w.auda.org.au</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
Important
Notice<br
class="">
This email may
contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal
privilege, and
is
intended for
the use of the
named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must
not use,
disclose or
copy any part
of this email.
If you have
received this
email
by mistake,
please notify
the sender and
delete
this message
immediately.</span>
</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
20 May 2018,
at 9:40 pm,
Alexander
Schubert <<a
href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">Christopher,<br
class="">
<br class="">
I completely
understand
(and support)
your notion,
that an
applicant for
a geo-gTLD
should be
locally
rooted;
ideally
geo-community
funded,
managed and
marketed. And
I am
completely in
agreement with
you that we
should create
policy that
prevents that
a few big
players are
blanketing the
geo-gTLD space
with hundreds
of
applications
each a copy
& paste
job of the
other, with
absolutely
zero knowledge
of the
specific city
community and
no intent to
further THEIR
specific
agenda –
instead trying
to make money
FAST.<br
class="">
<br class="">
And obviously
letters of
non-objection
will help a
lot – because
by 2020 the
mayors of a
major cities
WILL know a
bit about the
pitfalls of
the management
for city gTLDs
(consultants
will bring
them up to
speed and help
them to
navigate the
jungle of
examining the
applicants
funding,
marketing,
community-engagement
and rooting,
management,
etc).<br
class="">
<br class="">
</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:72pt;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:83.4pt">
<span
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"
class="">You
suggest a
measure to
reduce mass
land-grab:
“Prohibition
to apply for
several
geo-gTLDs for
the same
entity”. I was
a “domainer”
(shame on me)
since 1997,
and then
started to
create
community
based gTLDs in
2004 (.berlin
was a
community
owned, funded,
managed and
designated
gTLD
application,
as was the
.gay applicant
I founded). I
personally
know quite a
bunch of
“domainers
turned
portfolio
applicants”.
And I know
their
abilities,
their
endurance.
They will
simply have a
legal entity
in each city –
intelligently
managed
through
notaries
acting on
their behalf.
I am happy to
help looking
into policy
that is
designed to
stop geo-name
land grab; but
the measure
proposed by
you is
probably
easily to be
gamed.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks,<br
class="">
<br class="">
Alexander<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</span></p>
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