<div dir="ltr">THAT is the question....</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Marita Moll <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Just on the final thought below: I wonder what kinds of neutral
    measures there could be to measure applications. If a city of
    500,000 comes along with the same name as a hamlet of 500 and a
    brand of beer -- all seeking to acquire the same string -- under
    what conditions would the name NOT go to the large city. <br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
    <br>
    Marita Moll</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br>
    <br>
    <div class="m_7986622058443390664moz-cite-prefix">On 6/2/2018 3:08 AM, Liz Williams
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      The challenge with these kind of cut off
      numbers/percentages/qualifiers is that they don’t recognise the
      realities of
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>A)  numerous examples of where this just doesn’t
        work when generic words clash with trademarks which clash with
        geographic terms where no one right is more valid than any
        other.</div>
      <div>B) competing applications (from the Perths or
        Londons or Rocks) of the world which could be some of the
        largest cities in the world to the tiniest island towns that
        want to connect their unique identity to the global internet</div>
      <div>C) legitimate dissent where a geographic location is
        contested (in all forms of geographic and cultural contest) but
        where it is entirely feasible for a legitimate application to be
        submitted for which freedom of expression is paramount.
         Mandating support or “non-objection” is a guarantee of failure
        where the applicant may have different views to the government
        of the day.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>We must think clearly about neutral measures for
        evaluators to measure applications…not coming up with select
        lists which we will, guaranteed, get wrong. </div>
      <div>Liz
        <div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline!important;float:none">….</span><br class="m_7986622058443390664Apple-interchange-newline" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline!important;float:none">Dr Liz
            Williams | International Affairs</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline!important;float:none">.au
            Domain Administration Ltd</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline!important;float:none">M: +61
            436 020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline!important;float:none">E: <a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au" target="_blank">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a> <a href="http://www.auda.org.au" target="_blank">ww<wbr>w.auda.org.au</a></span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline!important;float:none"> </span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline!important;float:none">Important
            Notice</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
          <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Avenir;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline!important;float:none">This
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            the named addressee only. If you are not the intended
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        </div>
        <div><br>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div>On 2 Jun 2018, at 12:15 pm, Justine Chew <<a href="mailto:justine.chew@gmail.com" target="_blank">justine.chew@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="m_7986622058443390664Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div>
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Alexander,<br>
                  <br>
                  I very much like the idea of a percentage of citizens
                  of a nation as consideration for qualifying select
                  list of cities in order to not exclude smaller cities
                  from protective measures enjoyed by capital cities and
                  ISO 3166 Alpha-2 subnational regions. Percentages
                  would work much better than absolute values.</div>
                <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                  <div>
                    <div class="m_7986622058443390664gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Thank
                      <div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;display:inline">​ you for
                        suggesting this.​</div>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      Justine <br>
                      -----</div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">On 1 June 2018 at 23:28,
                    Alexander Schubert <span dir="ltr">
                      <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" target="_blank">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>></span>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div lang="EN-US">
                        <div class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-m_1467855337704819413WordSection1">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_7986622058443390664_m_1467855337704819413__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Greg,</span></a></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">So in other words folks who are
                              trying to preserve identity rights for
                              city inhabitants are “GEO Supremacists” in
                              your eyes? I assume you just want to
                              showcase your extreme displeasure with the
                              suggested protective measures. Just search
                              “USA supremacy” in
                              <a href="http://google.com/" target="_blank">google.com</a>;
                              and you know why it hurts to be called a
                              “supremacist”. Maybe you weren’t aware how
                              insulting the term is.</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>
                              But trying to stay on the topic matter:</span></p>
                          <p class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span>       
                                </span></span></span><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I think we have reached general
                                agreement that the public
                                representatives for inhabitants of
                                certain geo-entities deserve the
                                unilateral right to vet an identical
                                gTLD application.</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span></p>
                          <p class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72pt"><span><span>o<span>  
                                </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">And in the languages that
                              matters! See Moscow: Even when only a
                              smaller percentage of Muscovites speaks
                              English – the gTLD is bilingual; one gTLD
                              in English and an IDN version in Russian.
                              Just the local language isn’t enough in a
                              globalized world. I am a good example in
                              this case:  For my Russian traveling I use
                              schubert.moscow – and I wouldn’t want an
                              IDN version. I hope it’s not too
                              “supremacist” when a metropole desires
                              their well-known global brand in the
                              English language as well (being a capital
                              or not – Moscow was covered as it is
                              capital).</span></p>
                          <p class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span>       
                                </span></span></span><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Examples of the above mentioned
                                agreed on protective measures are
                                capital cities or ISO 3166 Alpha-2
                                subnational regions.
                              </span></b></p>
                          <p class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span>       
                                </span></span></span><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">My suggestion is that we extend
                                the same rights to cities once these
                                meet a certain threshold.</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">
                            </span></p>
                          <p class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72pt"><span><span>o<span>  
                                </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">You suggest that this should be a
                              “select list”. So we have to define the
                              threshold that defines the “list”. This
                              could be an absolute number of inhabitants
                              – or a percentage of citizens – or the
                              lower of both values. Example: the city
                              needs to have at minimum 250,000
                              inhabitants – or at least 2.5% of the
                              nation’s population. The exact measures
                              need to be explored. This way in countries
                              with less than 10 Million people (and that
                              is WELL more than half of all countries in
                              the world) slightly smaller cities are
                              protected as well. Latvia has 2 Million
                              people – 2.5% equals 50,000! That protects
                              4 cities aside of the capital.
                            </span></p>
                          <p class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-m_1467855337704819413MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span>       
                                </span></span></span><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If a city doesn’t make the
                                “select list” the 2012 AGB rules apply:
                                 government support only required if
                                geo-use intent.</span></b></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks,<br>
                              <br>
                              Alexander<br>
                              <br>
                            </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bo<wbr>unces@icann.org</a>]
                              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shatan<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 1. Juni
                              2018 06:44<br>
                              <b>To:</b> Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>></span></p>
                          <div>
                            <div class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-h5"><br>
                              <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank">
                                gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                              [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Qualifying the
                              threshold for requirement of letters of
                              non-objection!</div>
                          </div>
                          <div><br class="m_7986622058443390664webkit-block-placeholder">
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div class="m_7986622058443390664gmail-h5">
                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">I’m in favor of
                                    TLDs being applied for and used as
                                    city TLDs by those cities or on
                                    their behalf.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">I’m open to the
                                    idea that a very small and  select
                                    list of cities would have
                                    veto/blocking/consent/non-obje<wbr>ction privileges
                                    (practically, they’re all pretty
                                    much the same) over any use of a
                                    string identical to their name (in
                                    the language of  that city), even
                                    for non-geo uses.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">I’m open to the
                                    idea of a larger group of cities
                                    that would have those privileges,
                                    but only in the context of use in
                                    connection with that city.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">I’m not in favor
                                    of a general rule based on the
                                    geosupremacist idea that a geo use
                                    is superior to all other uses.  I’m
                                    really not in favor of a general
                                    rule that non-use/non-application
                                    for geo purposes should get in the
                                    way of an application for another
                                    use of that same string.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Strings have
                                    multiple meanings and uses.  There
                                    is no general rule of a hierarchy of
                                    rights among legitimate uses of that
                                    string. There is certainly no
                                    hierarchy that puts geo uses at the
                                     top of the list every time.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Greg</p>
                                </div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, May 31,
                                      2018 at 7:54 PM Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>
                                      wrote:</p>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
                                    <div>
                                      <p>I know I am a bit late
                                        in tuning into these thoughts by
                                        Alexander. But it's never too
                                        late to say "well said."</p>
                                      <p><span style="font-family:Times,serif">I am reminded that,
                                          in it's earliest days, the
                                          Internet itself was considered
                                          a public resource. Even the
                                          slightest bit of advertising
                                          was shunned! We have come a
                                          long way from there. But we
                                          still have a chance to retain
                                          some of that original spirit.
                                        </span>The city domain name
                                        space could be seen and managed
                                        as a resource for public benefit
                                        as Alexander suggests.  
                                      </p>
                                      <p>And that would have to
                                        be by design."It doesn't happen
                                        by accident." <u>
                                        </u></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p><span style="font-family:Times,serif">Marita Moll</span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">On
                                          5/22/2018 11:34 AM, Alexander
                                          Schubert wrote:</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_7986622058443390664_m_1467855337704819413_m_-5000858957205867718__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Liz,</span></a></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I am a domain
                                              broker and “domainer”
                                              since 21 years and have
                                              consequently analyzed the
                                              market from “inside” –
                                              ESPECIALLY when it comes
                                              to newly minted gTLDs. I
                                              have participated in all
                                              new gTLD introductions in
                                              the past, from .info, over
                                              .us (liberation in  2001),
                                              .eu and so on. And there
                                              is a FUNDAMENTAL
                                              difference between a
                                              historical grown name
                                              space like “.com” or a
                                              ccTLD and new name spaces:<br>
                                              <br>
                                              If 10% of names in .com or
                                              .de are speculative
                                              registrations - .com will
                                              survive just fine. No
                                              problem. But:<br>
                                              A new gTLD is like a new
                                              “land” – best to be
                                              compared with for example
                                              Dubai. Imagine the rulers
                                              of Dubai had sold building
                                              lots for “cost value”; say
                                              for US $2,000 per lot.
                                              They would probably have
                                              sold high volumes – but
                                              unlikely that ANYTHING
                                              would have really being
                                              developed there. The
                                              “dirt” would have remained
                                              what it is: “dirt”.
                                              Speculators would have
                                              speculated.<br>
                                              But wisely the Dubai
                                              rulers demanded from all
                                              land buyers to DEVELOP
                                              their land – and build
                                              something; “something”
                                              that by now is the
                                              sparkling community we all
                                              know: DUBAI!<br>
                                              <br>
                                              In Chicago there were
                                              several blocks of sub
                                              premium land. Some people
                                              bought houses cheaply –
                                              and did NOTHING. But
                                              others developed the land
                                              around – and made the area
                                              “valuable”. Guess how the
                                              people who bought cheap
                                              and then waited until the
                                              area became valuable were
                                              called? No. Not “clever
                                              investors”. They were
                                              labeled “free-riders”.
                                              They bought cheap and did
                                              nothing – waited for the
                                              land to “mature” – then
                                              sold for prices that were
                                              high due to the work of
                                              others. That’s what
                                              “domain investors” do:
                                              they buy the premium land
                                              – let it sit for 5 to 10
                                              years – THEN SELL for
                                              1,000 times the
                                              “investment”. “Clever”?
                                              Nope: Mismanagement,
                                              free-Riding and damages
                                              the name-space: nothing is
                                              being developed – no
                                              “Sparkling Dubai” – all
                                              remains dirt. Legal – but
                                              doesn’t really advance the
                                              experience of the Internet
                                              user.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              It’s all a question of
                                              public benefit philosophy
                                              – or the absence of any.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Regarding “local
                                              business”:<br>
                                              Yes, of course one could
                                              argue that a domain
                                              tires.denver owned by
                                              speculator and operating a
                                              <a href="http://tires.com/" target="_blank">tires.com</a>
                                              Affiliate website isn’t
                                              too bad. After all people
                                              in Denver can buy tires on
                                              the website, and the
                                              domain owner “invested
                                              funds”, the registry got
                                              some money in the premium
                                              auction (e.g. US $2k –
                                              even if the domain is
                                              worth US $50k), and: “all
                                              OK, no?”. Free market, and
                                              let the registry do what
                                              they want.<br>
                                              My view on this:  A city
                                              gTLD is a VALUABLE
                                              RESCOURCE, that should aid
                                              the city community. It
                                              should be MANAGED – and
                                              ideally in a way that
                                              impacting domains like
                                              business verticals are
                                              supporting LOCAL business.
                                              The U.S. is CHOKING on a
                                              gigantic import-export
                                              deficit: stuff is being
                                              bought ABROAD instead
                                              nationally. The same is
                                              true for local
                                              communities: The Internet
                                              serves as a Trojan horse
                                              to shift local business
                                              outside the city.  Tires
                                              being bought at a
                                              <a href="http://tires.com/" target="_blank">tires.com</a>
                                              Affiliate site displayed
                                              at tires.denver shift
                                              revenue OUTSIDE Denver.
                                              Apartments leased via an
                                              Affiliate site at
                                              apartments.denver destroy
                                              local real estate
                                              businesses. This list goes
                                              on and on and on. The huge
                                              advantage of a locally
                                              MANAGED city gTLD is to
                                              ADVANCE LOCAL BUSINESS!
                                              Hence “.denver”! If you
                                              wanted to buy tires
                                              SOMEWHERE – then do it.
                                              But the very idea of a
                                              .city gTLD is that it
                                              promotes LOCAL BUSINESSES!
                                              And that doesn’t happen by
                                              “accident” – it has to be
                                              promoted and MANAGED. And
                                              the ones who do that best
                                              are the local business
                                              constituencies – business
                                              associations, chambers,
                                              etc.!</span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Imagine somebody
                                              bought a wood (large
                                              property full of trees)
                                              for cheap money – and
                                              would harvest ALL trees,
                                              and sell them at once:
                                              Yes, they would make a
                                              profit. Is it good for the
                                              land? Nope – the land will
                                              erode. Hence laws and
                                              rules regulate wood
                                              harvesting. It’s the same
                                              with city gTLDs. Selling
                                              all the premium domains in
                                              SEDO auctions to
                                              “investors” makes money –
                                              and drives registration
                                              volume: but it deprives
                                              the namespace of creating
                                              “beacon” domains that
                                              serve as brand ambassadors
                                              for the city gTLD.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Took me a few years to
                                              develop all these
                                              thoughts. I am thinking
                                              about community name
                                              spaces since 2004. I love
                                              earning money – but I love
                                              even more when I serve
                                              people while doing so. Not
                                              all life is about making
                                              cash fast.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              So when a city Government
                                              is being presented with a
                                              city constituencies
                                              funded, owned, managed and
                                              marketed “non-profit”
                                              effort to advance the city
                                              – and on the other hand
                                              with an operator that
                                              merely “makes the
                                              namespace available”: let
                                              the cities representatives
                                              decide. I agree with you:
                                              ICANN should NOT “tell
                                              applicants where to base
                                              their business” or how to
                                              operate it. It’s fine when
                                              there are offshore based
                                              portfolio applicants with
                                              large amounts of VC money
                                              running around and trying
                                              to convince cities to
                                              operate a valuable and
                                              important city
                                              infrastructure. But allow
                                              the city to decide whom
                                              they pick – don’t let VC
                                              money “brute force”
                                              ownership of city
                                              namespaces.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Btw: Sadly the “managing”
                                              part wasn’t well developed
                                              in the first batch of city
                                              gTLDs. I think this will
                                              dramatically change in the
                                              next round.
                                            </span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>
                                              Thanks,<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Alexander</span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                          <div>
                                            <div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Liz
                                                  Williams [<a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au" target="_blank">mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.<wbr>au</a>]
                                                  <br>
                                                  <b>Sent:</b>
                                                  Dienstag, 22. Mai 2018
                                                  06:39<br>
                                                  <b>To:</b>
                                                  Alexander Schubert <a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" target="_blank">
<alexander@schubert.berlin></a><br>
                                                  <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
                                                  <b>Subject:</b>
                                                  Re:
                                                  [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5]
                                                  Qualifying the
                                                  threshold for
                                                  requirement of letters
                                                  of non-objection!</span></p>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">Hello
                                            Alexander </p>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">I
                                              wanted to explore a little
                                              further your assertion
                                              that an applicant for a
                                              geo-TLD should be locally
                                              based.  Our freedom of
                                              expression/civil liberties
                                              colleagues will have a
                                              better handle on those
                                              imperatives but I wonder
                                              why one would expect an
                                              applicant to be located in
                                              the community when, for
                                              example, a geographic
                                              domain name label may be a
                                              means of expressing
                                              dissent or difference from
                                              the current government? 
                                              It is not a pre-requisite
                                              for ICANN to be telling
                                              applicants who meet the
                                              evaluation criteria that
                                              they should be “local”.  
                                              We also know that the
                                              Internet enables us to be
                                              wherever we want to be to
                                              do business…that is one of
                                              the most amazing
                                              characteristics of the
                                              Internet.</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">It is
                                              also not desirable for
                                              ICANN to tell applicants
                                              where they should locate
                                              their businesses. 
                                              Organisations legitimately
                                              and perfectly legally
                                              choose the registered
                                              location for  their
                                              business based on, for
                                              example, tax treatment,
                                              ease of doing business,
                                              rule of law, incentives
                                              for entrepreneurs,
                                              bandwidth and timezone. 
                                              Those are all good things
                                              we wouldn’t want to
                                              interfere with.</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">I doubt
                                              that it is supportable to
                                              have a prohibition on
                                              entities applying for
                                              several geographic
                                              labels.  What if it were a
                                              good thing that an expert
                                              registry operator was able
                                              to provide services to
                                              communities in unique and
                                              attractive ways?  I would
                                              have thought that is a
                                              nice niche business that
                                              could benefit communities
                                              in good ways?  </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">And
                                              finally, I don’t
                                              understand the problem
                                              with domain investors. 
                                              Those domain name owners
                                              are legitimate purchasers
                                              of domain names at the
                                              second level.  Many
                                              registry operators are
                                              propped up by those
                                              investors and the
                                              secondary domain name
                                              market is active and
                                              mature which is another
                                              indicator of competition
                                              and consumer choice.  I
                                              think we can all agree
                                              that mis-using a domain
                                              name, whoever owns it,
                                              isn’t a desirable market
                                              outcome but there are
                                              measures in place to deal
                                              with that.</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">Looking
                                              forward to the views of
                                              others.</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">Liz </p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Avenir">….<br>
                                                  Dr Liz Williams |
                                                  International Affairs<br>
                                                  .au Domain
                                                  Administration Ltd<br>
                                                  M: +61 436 020 595 |
                                                  +44 7824 877757<br>
                                                  E: <a href="mailto:liz.williams@auda.org.au" target="_blank">liz.williams@auda.org.au</a> <a href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank">ww<wbr>w.auda.org.au</a><br>
                                                   <br>
                                                  Important Notice<br>
                                                  This email may
                                                  contain information
                                                  which is confidential
                                                  and/or subject
                                                  to legal privilege,
                                                  and is intended for
                                                  the use of the
                                                  named addressee only.
                                                  If you are not the
                                                  intended recipient,
                                                  you must not use,
                                                  disclose or copy any
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                                                  please notify
                                                  the sender and delete
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                                                  immediately.</span>
                                              </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
                                              <blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal">On
                                                    20 May 2018, at 9:40
                                                    pm, Alexander
                                                    Schubert <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" target="_blank">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>>
                                                    wrote:</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Christopher,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I completely
                                                        understand (and
                                                        support) your
                                                        notion, that an
                                                        applicant for a
                                                        geo-gTLD should
                                                        be locally
                                                        rooted; ideally
                                                        geo-community
                                                        funded, managed
                                                        and marketed.
                                                        And I am
                                                        completely in
                                                        agreement with
                                                        you that we
                                                        should create
                                                        policy that
                                                        prevents that a
                                                        few big players
                                                        are blanketing
                                                        the geo-gTLD
                                                        space with
                                                        hundreds of
                                                        applications
                                                        each a copy
                                                        & paste job
                                                        of the other,
                                                        with absolutely
                                                        zero knowledge
                                                        of the specific
                                                        city community
                                                        and no intent to
                                                        further THEIR
                                                        specific agenda
                                                        – instead trying
                                                        to make money
                                                        FAST.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        And obviously
                                                        letters of
                                                        non-objection
                                                        will help a lot
                                                        – because by
                                                        2020 the mayors
                                                        of a major
                                                        cities WILL know
                                                        a bit about the
                                                        pitfalls of the
                                                        management for
                                                        city gTLDs
                                                        (consultants
                                                        will bring them
                                                        up to speed and
                                                        help them to
                                                        navigate the
                                                        jungle of
                                                        examining the
                                                        applicants
                                                        funding,
                                                        marketing,
                                                        community-engagement
                                                        and rooting,
                                                        management,
                                                        etc).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:72pt;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:83.4pt">
                                                      <span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">You
                                                        suggest a
                                                        measure to
                                                        reduce mass
                                                        land-grab:
                                                        “Prohibition to
                                                        apply for
                                                        several
                                                        geo-gTLDs for
                                                        the same
                                                        entity”. I was a
                                                        “domainer”
                                                        (shame on me)
                                                        since 1997,  and
                                                        then started to
                                                        create community
                                                        based gTLDs in
                                                        2004 (.berlin
                                                        was a community
                                                        owned, funded,
                                                        managed and
                                                        designated gTLD
                                                        application, as
                                                        was the .gay
                                                        applicant I
                                                        founded). I
                                                        personally know
                                                        quite a bunch of
                                                        “domainers
                                                        turned portfolio
                                                        applicants”. And
                                                        I know their
                                                        abilities, their
                                                        endurance. They
                                                        will simply have
                                                        a legal entity
                                                        in each city –
                                                        intelligently
                                                        managed through
                                                        notaries acting
                                                        on their
                                                        behalf.  I am
                                                        happy to help
                                                        looking into
                                                        policy that is
                                                        designed to stop
                                                        geo-name land
                                                        grab; but the
                                                        measure proposed
                                                        by you is
                                                        probably easily
                                                        to be gamed.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Thanks,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Alexander<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </span></p>
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