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<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Yes, well, I'm not
totally convinced that "age trumps size" would be a good
solution. </font><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">But at least we are
trying out real world examples.<br>
</font></font></p>
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Marita</font><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/8/2018 8:59 PM, Carlos Raul
Gutierrez wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:355e3d8ea35cbda322e1040bf5296e55@gutierrez.se">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>
<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family:
monospace"><span>how many of these are there likely to be?</span></div>
<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family:
monospace"> </div>
<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family:
monospace"><span>Between LatAm, California and Spain: a lot!</span></div>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>El 2018-06-08 18:49, Marita Moll escribió:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left:
#1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0"><!-- html ignored -->
<!-- head ignored --><!-- meta ignored -->
<p><span>Interesting example -- Cordoba (Spain/Argentina). </span></p>
</blockquote>
<div>---<br>
<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family:
monospace">Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez<br>
<br>
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;">Well,
maybe, in cases like that, age trumps size. I could live
with that because really, how many of these are there likely
to be?</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left:
#1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;">Marita
Moll</span></p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/8/2018 4:17 PM, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left:
#1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<pre>Cordoba Spain actually dates back to Roman times ;-)
As to definitions of city in Switzerland there is a good explanation here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/catalogues-databases/press-releases.assetdetail.38628.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/catalogues-databases/press-releases.assetdetail.38628.html</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/catalogues-databases/press-releases.assetdetail.38628.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"><https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/catalogues-databases/press-releases.assetdetail.38628.html></a>(according to which there are 162 cities in Switzerland)
best
Jorge
________________________________
Von: Carlos Raul Gutierrez <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:carlosraul@gutierrez.se" moz-do-not-send="true"><carlosraul@gutierrez.se></a>
Datum: 8. Juni 2018 um 22:09:03 MESZ
An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" moz-do-not-send="true"><Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><maureen.hilyard@gmail.com></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><mmoll@ca.inter.net></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a>
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Follow up on comment in chat during WT5 meeting of 6 June
I'm in agreement with Jorge!
We should consider a relative definition of the local laws, like considering each of the Swiss Cantons having its own capital city, however tiny (Luzern 'watch my spelling´ with 81,057 inhabitants (2015).
If afterwards, Córdoba Spain (inhab. 326,609 (2016) but founded 784 A.D.) happens to be smaller than Córdoba Argentina (inhab. 1.391 million (2010) we can talk......
---
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
El 2018-06-08 13:48, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a> escribió:
Dear all
As I mentioned in the last call I feel it is best to respect subsidiarity and hence defer to local laws and policies on what is a city.
Each country has its own definitions - hence it would be arbitrary trying to impose one-size-fits-all from here.
The advisory panel suggested and/or a database linking to the aprox. 195 definitions and sets of city-lists would probably not be too difficult to be established and would provide applicants with a heightened level of certainty.
hope this helps
Jorge
________________________________
Von: Maureen Hilyard <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com></a>>
Datum: 8. Juni 2018 um 21:20:41 MESZ
An: Marita Moll <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net></a>>
Cc: Icann Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5 <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a>>
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Follow up on comment in chat during WT5 meeting of 6 June
+1 Marita
On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Marita Moll <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" moz-do-not-send="true">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net></a>>> wrote:
I think this is a practical way forward. Let's start talking about a manageable "size of city" category that would not require an army of people to maintain, for starters. I imagine population is the easiest way to go. But maybe there are better ideas.
Marita Moll
On 6/8/2018 12:44 PM, Alexander Schubert wrote:
Dear colleagues,
Risking to repeat myself:
• The base for our discussions is the 2012 AGB; NOT a "blank page"
• The 2012 AGB distinguished between CATEGOGIES!
• The categories "UN Regions and 3166 Alpha-2 subnational regions" seem relatively undisputed
• So does the treatment of capital cities: All of these do not provide for a "non-geo use" provision!
• The ONLY other "category" was "cities"
• And for these there is a non-geo use provision
Seemingly we now have two relatively simplistic tasks:
1. Asking ourselves what the "objective criteria" might be that would equate a SIZEABLE city with the above categories! Undoubtedly a Million people city community needs AT MINIMUM to be looped in when some "brand" wants to hijack the name on DNS top level. Anybody who tries to tell me that the "trade mark rights" of a "brand" are outweighing those of 1 Million people earns my complete rejection. Sorry. The question is what the criteria would be to lift a city into the same category as capital cities or 3166 subnational regions.
2. OUTSIDE of regulating the city category we MIGHT discuss other potential geo categories. But let's not conflate both categories. Let's focus.
Thanks,
Alexander.berlin
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org></a>] On Behalf Of Heather Forrest
Sent: Freitag, 8. Juni 2018 09:16
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a>>
Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Follow up on comment in chat during WT5 meeting of 6 June
Dear WT5 colleagues,
I write to follow up on my comment in the AC chat near the end of our meeting on 6 June 2018 (Heather Forrest: In my view all of the proposals above based on quantitative thresholds suffer from randomness. I do not support the use of the letter of support/non-objection for other reasons already noted on the list, but these proposals create more problems. AND Heather Forrest:+1 Liz - and indeed I should have said 'arbitrariness' rather than 'randomness' (apologies- it's early morning here in APAC!)). I'm sorry that I had to drop the call soon after to attend another meeting, so was unable to provide context or answer questions.
In the policy development process that led to the 2012 AGB the protection of famous and well-known trademarks, a legal right explicitly recognised by the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property (to which 177 countries are a member), was ultimately not adopted by the GNSO or implemented in the AGB. There is a very long history here that goes back to the Implementation Review Team (several highly experienced members of this PDP were members of that RT), but for our purposes I'll just highlight that protection of famous trademarks through a 'Globally Protected Marks List' (often referred to then as 'GPML') was rejected due to equivalent concerns as those raised by myself and others in our call about the use of quantitative, geographic eligibility criteria for protection.
Those involved in the PDP at that time found it challenging to determine the criteria for identifying a mark as famous, and thus eligible to be included on the GPML. The inherently arbitrary nature of quantitative, geographical criteria (e.g., the mark being protected by registration in a specified number of jurisdictions in each of the five ICANN regions) was vigorously debated at ICANN35 in June 2009. At United States Congressional oversight hearings on new gTLDs in May 2011, ICANN's then Senior Vice President for Stakeholder Relations cited concerns expressed by WIPO as to the mechanics of such a list and opposition from the GAC as chief obstacles to its implementation in new gTLD policy. He concluded: 'The time, commitment and resources (from ICANN and the community) needed to create and maintain such a list would provide only marginal benefits as such a list would apply to only a small number of names and only for identical matches of those names.' (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/pritz-to-goodlatte-07jun11-en.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/pritz-to-goodlatte-07jun11-en.pdf</a>)
Should WT5 conclude that it is now appropriate to use quantitative geographic criteria in relation to requirements on city names (as I have expressed before in meetings and submissions, I do not personally support this conclusion), we must be prepared to explain in detail in the Final Report how these criteria overcome challenge on the ground of arbitrariness, and are not inconsistent with this earlier GNSO policy decision.
Best wishes,
Heather Forrest
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Terri Agnew <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">terri.agnew@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org></a>>>
Date: Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:25 PM
Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Recordings, attendance & Adobe Connect chat from GNSO New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG Work Track 5 (Geographic Names at the top-level) call / Wednesday, 06 June 2018
To: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a>>" <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a>>>
Cc: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-secs@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org></a>>" <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-secs@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org></a>>>
Dear all,
Please find the attendance and Adobe Connect chat of the call attached. The MP3 and Adobe Connect recording is below for the GNSO New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG Work Track 5 (Geographic Names at the top-level) call held on Wednesday, 06 June 2018 at 20:00 UTC.
Agenda wiki page: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.icann.org/x/MScFBQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://community.icann.org/x/MScFBQ</a>
As a reminder only members can join the call, observers can listen to the recordings and read the transcript afterwards. Please email <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-secs@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org></a><<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org></a>> if you would like to change your status from observer to member.
Mp3: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-new-gtld-subsequent-track5-06jun18-en.mp3" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-new-gtld-subsequent-track5-06jun18-en.mp3</a>
Adobe Connect recording: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://participate.icann.org/p8b696447i2/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://participate.icann.org/p8b696447i2/</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://participate.icann.org/p8b696447i2/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=d01eb915b907ba60b592ccc21320b2067715609560b344fb59191929d07b3045" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"><https://participate.icann.org/p8b696447i2/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=d01eb915b907ba60b592ccc21320b2067715609560b344fb59191929d07b3045></a>
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar</a>
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5/</a>
Main wiki page: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.icann.org/x/YASbAw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://community.icann.org/x/YASbAw</a>
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Terri
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