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Hello everyone
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<div class="">I couldn’t agree with Heather more. It is insufficient and lazy to rely on 2007 policy recommendations and 2012 implementation of an AGB. We can and must do better.</div>
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<div class="">Liz<br class="">
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Liz Williams | International Affairs</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
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Domain Administration Ltd</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
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+61 436 020 595 | +44 7824 877757</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Avenir; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">
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<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 25 Jun 2018, at 4:42 pm, Heather Forrest <<a href="mailto:haforrestesq@gmail.com" class="">haforrestesq@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Dear WT5 colleagues,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Based on the summary of the Cross Community Topic that is taking place right now in Panama City ICANN62, and the discussions in the Working Group to this point, I do not agree with the assessment in Alexander's email that the WT5 current position
is: "
<div style="margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<b class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">So if the 2012 AGB is the base; the current WT5 suggestion is being floated:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class=""> <span class=""> </span></span></span></span><u class=""></u><b class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Keep
everything like it is! It worked and it is fine!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class=""> <span class=""> </span></span></span></span><u class=""></u><b class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">In
the category “city”: elevate cities that meet a certain requirement into the same status as subnational regions or capital cities! (Meaning: no non-geo-use clause)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></b></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class=""> <span class=""> </span></span></span></span><u class=""></u><b class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">And
indeed: a city with 500,000 people should be AS MINIUM as important as the average capital or a subnational region! Why should it be LESS protected, makes no sense!"</span></b></div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This may be a proposal or suggestion, but to be very clear, it is not an agreed position of WT5 members, nor indeed of the broader community participating in today's Cross Community Topic workshop.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Kind regards,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Heather Forrest</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Marita Moll <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank" class="">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" class="">Thanks for this summary Alexander. I agree with most of this.</font></p>
<p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" class="">Not totally happy with "</font><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class=""><span class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">To reduce this new burden there should be a “cutoff” implemented: only if the city meets a certain requirement (e.g. in population size) the “non-geo use” would be
replaced. In other words: if a tiny city of no special relevance has a name identical to a generic term – applicants for such generic term do NOT have to approach the city government IF there is no intent for geo use! (The Government of such smaller city will
STILL have to be approached if the gTLD is intended to serve the city)." <br class="">
</span></font></p>
<p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" class="">But, as you say, there has to be compromise. I wish there was a way to protect special places which have had a glorious past but are now reduced to out of the way tourist sites (ancient Etruscan
city Volterra) -- but this may be addressed through UNESCO regions -- not sure about that.<br class="">
</font></p>
<p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" class="">If we can protect cities of 500,000 and over, that will be around 1000 strings and a huge number of people. I am sure brands can adjust.</font></p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class="">
<p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" class="">Marita<br class="">
</font></p>
</font></span>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="m_8814042535565957348moz-cite-prefix">On 6/25/2018 5:05 AM, Alexander Schubert wrote:<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="m_8814042535565957348WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Dear Joe,<br class="">
<br class="">
thanks for your contribution! You are stating that you haven’t been actively involved in the past but observed. Have you read all emails and been in all calls? I am asking because you also state:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f4e79" class="">“……the discussions seem to have only mildly addressed the thousands of business names around<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f4e79" class=""> the world that are trademarked, that already contain geographic names, cities and territories….”</span></i></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Well: For MONTH on end we did practically nothing else than discussing precisely that topic. In endless email exchanges (probably a thousand) and phone conferences.
This topic has been THE priority so far. Let me summarize from my view:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">We work off the 2012 AGB as a base – and try to identify areas of improvement<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">In the 2012 AGB very few geo names have been protected, namely:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Unesco regions (irrelevant as all are assigned as gTLD but “.europe”)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">ISO 3166 Alpha-2 national sub regions (which is why .tata wasn’t granted to the Indian TATA and why .bar needed an OK from the region BAR in ME -
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:ME" target="_blank" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr class="">ISO_3166-2:ME</a>)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Capital cities<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">All of the above require a letter if non-objection by the responsible Government authority – independent whether or not the applicant claims geo-use intent or not!
And so far nobody has really much challenged these rules.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">The ONLY remaining 2012 AGB geo-name category was “city names” – with “city” not really very precisely defined. In the 2012 AGB applicants for strings identical to
a city name needed Government approval (letter if non-objection). The only exception was a declaration of “non-geo name use”. That could be a brand, a generic term, or some “.xyz”-like fun theme: “.heyyou” - which might be an industrial center in China (I
made that up).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">There are now two main concerns (those of brands vs. those who want to protect the free expression rights of city populations):<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">There are potentially hundreds of thousands qualifying “city names” – and there is (as you mentioned) a sizeable overlap with so called “brands and generic terms!
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">In the same time the citizens of sizeable and or important cities should have their free speech rights preserved: that is being able to express themselves through
a domain name based on their city name – just like in the future most if not all big metropolises will offer that possibility!
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">So if somebody would apply for “.telaviv” (officially Jerusalem is the capital of Israel) – but claim “non-geo use” (which might be a ruse) – then according to the
2012 AGB they would be assigned the TLD if there was no competition – OR they could drive up the public auction price in a bidding war against a potential city based non-profit that represents the city’s constituents but has no VC cash! Or worse: a financially
strong BRAND could simply outbid the city based application and hijack the TLD! I am quite sure that the good people of Tel Aviv would be very unhappy – and I wonder how you would defend the horrible 2012 AGB rules to them?
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Plus: It doesn’t really matters what the registry “intents” – the registry is not offering domain names to the public, nor is it the registrant. It is the registrars
who will offer it is a city gTLD – and it is registrants who will use it for that purpose – and there won’t be any obligation by ICANN to prevent such use!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Some here claim that “brands” have “rights” – while citizens of cities have none. Others claim that this constitutes a travesty – as most city name based brands are
BASED on the connotation with the city – and ICANN’s mission is to foster PUBLIC BENEFIT (as in helping citizens executing their right of free expression) and NOT helping “brands” to squat on city resources! What is more important: the “right” of a small brand
– or the rights of hundreds of thousands of citizens in a city?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">The entire thing is a question of “culture” – and like in any OTHER culture war both sides are very divided and each is steadfast convinced to have possession of endless
wisdom (me included).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">As this is not an “election” where a “majority” decides what the future culture shall be (essentially picking a “winner” – and creating a big pool of “losers”) –
we will need to find an agreeable compromise!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">The compromise needs to:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Protect as many citizens in as many cities as possible from losing their right of free expression by using city name based domains!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">But to not overprotect that category – because it would put too many burdens on brands and generic term based applicants!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">I am lobbying for a certain workable solution – and it seems there has been broad support for it:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">In order to prevent citizens from losing their free speech and free expression rights permanently we do strike the “non-geo use” clause without replacement! (Don’t
get a cardiac arrest – read on).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">So if somebody applies for “.telaviv” and claims it would be a new social network like TWITTER or a “.xyz” clone – they would need to get the city’s approval first
– to PROTECT the citizens free speech and free expression rights which are very important!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">To reduce this new burden there should be a “cutoff” implemented: only if the city meets a certain requirement (e.g. in population size) the “non-geo use” would be
replaced. In other words: if a tiny city of no special relevance has a name identical to a generic term – applicants for such generic term do NOT have to approach the city government IF there is no intent for geo use! (The Government of such smaller city will
STILL have to be approached if the gTLD is intended to serve the city).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Such cutoff could be a population size – the exact measures would have to be determined! Numbers between 100,000 and 500,000 have been floated, and/or percentages
of country size! Once we agree on the cutoff rule; the exact measures could be defined later! First qualifying, then quantifying!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">The outcome would be that brands and generic term based applications have close to zero extra burden to carry; while in the same time the free speech rights and rights
of expression for hundreds of Millions of people would be preserved in accordance with ICANN’s mission! In the very rare cases of a brand having deliberately chosen a “big city” name (because they want to profit from the image the citizens of that city have
worked hard to create over time) – then sorry: but nobody forced you to piggyback on the city’s fame: your own decision; all legal; but you will still need to meet certain obligations. You are just a “co-brand”; the “real brand” is the city brand; and you
are living “off” it. Then go and get their permission! But honestly: if we require only cities with more than e.g. 500k people to be specially extra protected (no “non-geo use clause”) – what is the number of brands impacted? Could somebody run a brand name
database against a big city database? And not every single US $200 TM registration is a “brand”!
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">So if the 2012 AGB is the base; the current WT5 suggestion is being floated:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></b></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Keep everything like it is! It worked and it is fine!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></b></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">In the category “city”: elevate cities that meet a certain requirement into the same status as subnational regions or capital cities! (Meaning: no non-geo-use
clause)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></b></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">And indeed: a city with 500,000 people should be AS MINIUM as important as the average capital or a subnational region! Why should it be LESS protected,
makes no sense!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">The disciples of both faiths are requested to reach over the isle and compromise. It doesn’t work in politics in many countries (I am not singling any particular country
out) – it doesn’t work in Religions most of the times. We at ICANN could proof that WE can do it. So let’s simply do it. Both sides have ENDLESSLY often explained their views (and I am guilty of having done so one too often: apologies! I am passionate when
it comes to rights of people and public benefit!). <br class="">
Now it is time to form the compromise.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><br clear="all" class="">
</span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">A simple to implement suggestion has been made. Is it workable?<br class="">
<br class="">
Anyone in?<br class="">
<br class="">
Btw: we are talking CITY names. Once we have a solution for that specific category we can look at geo name categories previously not protected. But that will be a SEPARATE category – and should not be conflated with the city name category!<br class="">
<br class="">
Thanks,<br class="">
<br class="">
Alexander<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a class="m_8814042535565957348moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-<wbr class="">bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Joe Alagna<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Friday, June 22, 2018 9:12 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a class="m_8814042535565957348moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank">
gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a> Work Track 5 <a class="m_8814042535565957348moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank">
<gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.<wbr class="">org></a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP: Work Track 5 Comments<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Hi All,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Although, because of time obligations, I have not commented, I have been an observer of this track since the
beginning and recently converted to member so I could make a comment. <u class="">
</u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">I would like to pose several questions and considerations. Please accept my apologies if some of my comments
have already been discussed since I have been unable to join the telephonic discussions. I have perused the ongoing document you are developing within the limits of my time.
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">These questions and considerations are meant in the spirit of contributing and stimulating discussion, not
necessarily advocating a position. The work you are doing is important. Please note that these are my own observations and comments, not necessarily reflective of the company I work for:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">1.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Some members are advocating to reserve city and territory names as rights or even as owned by the cities or territories. I’ve always understood city
and territory names as tools to be used by the public for geographic purposes. In fact, unless I missed it (I may have), the discussions seem to have only mildly addressed the thousands of business names around the world that are trademarked, that already
contain geographic names, cities and territories. You can look at any database of trademarks from any jurisdiction around the world and likely find hundreds of existing trademarks that contain geographic strings. Strings like this are highly important as
parts of business names, identifying the locations of service areas for example. These include names like Swiss Air and American Telephone and Telegraph. I use that second example to show how long-standing this tradition is. This fact seems unacknowledged
so far in our discussions. I fear that we are ignoring a hundred years + of tradition and precedence. It may be an important exercise to see how many trademarks already exist in various places that contain geo-type strings.<br class="">
<br class="">
The history of registries suggests that they may either be public or private, so it seems that the principal of neutrality is important when considering the type of entity applying for a string.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:115%">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">2.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">There is a theme of debate about who gets preference regarding geographic indicators in new strings, government entities or private entities. My
experience, at least in the United States is that many government entities do not care about their geographic names (and for that matter, their email addresses). They seem to be perfectly happy using what I would consider seriously outdated URLs and email
addresses. <br class="">
<br class="">
These government entities already have the right to use a .gov (or a .edu) domain name and email address, a right that any private citizen or public company does not have. Yet they prefer not to use them.
<br class="">
<br class="">
The example I have in mind is the several thousand public schools across the United States who prefer to continue using long URLS and email addresses in the .edu or .us space. A very typical teacher or administrative email address looks like this:<br class="">
<br class="">
</span><span class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msohyperlink"><b class=""><u class=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0563c1" class=""><a href="mailto:MyKidTeachersFirstName.LastName@LaUnifiedSchoolDistrict.k12.ca.us" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:#0563c1" class="">MyKidTeachersFirstName.<wbr class="">LastName@<wbr class="">LaUnifiedSchoolDistrict.k12.<wbr class="">ca.us</span></a></span></u></b></span><b class=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class=""><br class="">
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class=""><br class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">They don’t seem to want to change this. Wouldn’t it be better and more convenient for them to use something like:<br class="">
<br class="">
</span><span class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msohyperlink"><b class=""><u class=""><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0563c1" class=""><a href="mailto:MyKidsTeachersName@LAUnified.gov" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:#0563c1" class="">MyKidsTeachersName@LAUnified.<wbr class="">gov</span></a></span></u></b></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">
(or .edu) anything less than a fourth level domain name? So…<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">3.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Should not ICANN remain completely unbiased as to who gets the ability to apply for specific strings related to names in the DNS?
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">a.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Since many government, city, and territorial entities are not engaged nor involved in this process,
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">b.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Since both private and public entities can be good or evil, and
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">c.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Since ICANN has a charter of a bottom up, community driven, process, not the creation of laws or rights
<br class="">
<br class="">
Why should ICANN, in any way confer a preference to either type of entity? In fact, some in this discussion seem to be suggesting an assumed “ownership” of TLD strings, a right that I think can only be conferred on a hyper local level by the proper legal entities,
certainly not ICANN, therefore, <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">4.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Shouldn’t we be careful not to try to confer preferences or “rights” at all? In fact, shouldn’t we not even try that? It seems that we do not, and
probably should not have that power.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">5.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">There has been discussion that any applicant should comply with local laws in areas, cities, or territories where a string name where they would like
to do work is relevant. <i class="">I would agree with that general principal</i> since it respects local laws, makes sense, and doesn’t try to rule the world.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">6.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Shouldn’t we
<u class="">not</u> assume that every government entity around the world cares about what we are doing here. In fact, I am sure that most don’t care – at least as much as we do. If they did care, they would be involved.
<br class="">
<br class="">
We know that TLDs are important and we should care about and anticipate how geographic names affect cities and territories around the world. We should also care about how a country, city, or territory’s rights will affect any applicant in the future. But we
should not show a preference in our policy, therefore, four suggestions:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">a.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">A general preference for non-objection from geo-entities and curative solutions in policy over preventive solutions for potential geographic strings;
not assuming preferences that more often than not, don't exist <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">b.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">A more conservative approach to our scope in terms of the places we define<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">c.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Recognizing that our contracts are time limited – We should recognize that our contracts are for a specified period, at the end of which, a government
entity may have the option of becoming engaged and maybe add something to the contract that specifies this rather than an assumption of renewal for applicants. This would allow for worthwhile private investment (maybe a five or ten-year period) and allow
review by any public entity after a period of time, to become involved if they then care to.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="m_8814042535565957348gmail-msolistparagraph" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">d.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;line-height:115%;color:#0b5394" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">There should be no limits on how many applications may be filed on behalf of a single entity (private, corporate, or government). If we do this,
here also, we limit the capital involved in the process and we limit the chances for success of applicants and of this program in general.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0b5394" class="">Finally, thank you to all of you, on all sides, for your discussion and participation. I believe this discussion
is an important one and I know the sacrifice you are making in terms of your time. I only wish I was able to contribute near as much time as all of you have. Thank you!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#0b5394" class=""><br clear="all" class="">
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<p class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d" class="">Joe Alagna </span>
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