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<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">In answer to your
question, Alexander, would cities in Ontario (under normal
circumstances) have to solicit support from the province -- no,
I doubt that very much, and I can't see the federal government
meddling in there either. I was merely illustrating that things
are always in a state of flux -- and whatever system we set up
has to take that into account as well. Laws change, cities change,
populations move around. Currently, people are exiting large
cities in war-torn countries in the Middle East and elsewhere. Populations
go down as well as up.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">So, to your simple,
transparent and fair measure to identify cities, I would suggest
we keep these things in mind and try to build in some flexibility
as well. At least, with a population measure, a list based on
credible statistics could maintained in the same way as the
country code list is maintained and amended through a policy
process as is now the case with changes to country names.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Credible databases do
exist. The following site <b>World Population Review</b> is
full of information about city populations by country with data
sourced through the U.N. Some historical info as well. <br>
</font></p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="worldpopulationreview.com/"><font
face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">worldpopulationreview.com</font></a></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Marita</font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/28/2018 2:41 PM, Alexander
Schubert wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Hi
Marita,<br>
<br>
if someone applied for a Canadian city, they had to solicit
the support from the province as well? I assume only from
the city Government. I just wanted to point out that the
“letter of non-objection” (“Government support”) DOES NOT
provide “Governments” (of countries) with “veto rights”. In
opposite: Often city Governments are VEHEMENTLY opposed to
their federal Governments – e.g. in the birth land of the
Internet! Some U.S. cities are even completely denying
followership and orders of federal authorities (for example
“sanctuary cities” are denying to cooperate with ICE raids).
City governments are very local, elected by the local
constituents and truly representing the LOCAL interests –
often AGAINST the national government! Nobody can claim that
we would “empower GAC” (or nation states) when we require a
letter of non-objection for city name applications. That’s
just not the case – rather the opposite. Now there might be
a few totalitarian nations where the central Government
might want to weigh in. But those should be few; and that’s
a structural problem of THAT nation.<br>
<br>
But I certainly agree: We need a simply, transparent and
fair measure to identify cities that require protections
identical to capital cities. Population size is such
measure. A mix of absolute and relative to the countries
population seems sufficient and fair. If somebody had a
database of some 100+ countries, their populations, the
biggest cities, and the city populations, and could run a
few numbers: that would help us identifying how many cities
we would protect! Say if the absolute number was 250,000
inhabitants, and the relative population size 2.5% (of the
country’s population): Latvia has 2 Million people, 2.5%
equals 50,000 people. That would protect a mere 4 big cities
(outside the capital Riga); but ONLY the capital would
otherwise make the 250k threshold. Would be cool to see a
list compiled from those measures – and maybe run it against
a dictionary and a list of important brands (not a TM
database – EVERYTHING is trademarked, but TMs aren’t
“brands”). My assumption: there is a minimal overlap –
neither “real brands” nor generic terms would be exposed to
extra burdens! But the cities would be protected from
vultures and fake “non-geo use” applications! It would be a
simple rule that is easy to understand and easy to apply.
Applicants simply look up their string in Wikipedia (DON’T
TEACH ME ABOUT WIKIPEDIA), if a city pops up they look up
the population size of the city (cities) and the nation(s)
it is in – if it meets the criteria they need to talk to the
city – or cities in the rare case several make the cut! The
same is true if a SMALL city wants to apply but there was a
BIG city with identical name: Get their OK and you are fine!
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Alexander<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Marita Moll<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 28, 2018 8:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a> >> Icann
Gnso Newgtld Wg Wt5
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"><gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] New gTLD
Subsequent Procedures PDP: Work Track 5 Comments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>That's right -- although in some areas, one might also have
to deal with one level up -- which in Canada are the
provinces. If a province wanted to change the name of a city,
here in Ontario,Canada, the city has to comply. Things are
always changing. In 1998, the province forced an amalgamation
which created Metro Toronto out of <span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">the
regional municipality of <b>Metropolitan Toronto</b> and
its six constituent municipalities. As part of this, East
York, Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough, York, and the City
of <b>Toronto</b> (1834) were dissolved by an act of the
Government of Ontario.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">This
happens with countries as well of course (USSR), but it will
happen much more frequently with cities. That's another
reason to go with a size definition with a few other options
for smaller states and perhaps some leeway for historical
reasons. The larger the city, the more stable the name. I
have no evidence of that, but it seems to make sense. <br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Marita<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/28/2018 10:11 AM, Alexander Schubert
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear
Group,<br>
<br>
We are always talking about “Government Support” – and
many here share a healthy distain for “Governments”
(especially “Federal Governments”). But an applicant for a
non-capital city doesn’t need the support by the “federal
government” of the respective nation; it is the CITY
GOVERNMENT that decides! These are city constituent based
city representatives! They know their city best! <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Alexander<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Rosenzweig<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 28, 2018 1:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>;
<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] New gTLD
Subsequent Procedures PDP: Work Track 5 Comments</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">No,
I didn’t overlook that. It just transfers the burden to
someone else and either makes ICANN the judge of ambiguity
or makes ambiguity the rule. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">And,
no, this is not an easy task … I’m glad you think it is …
so I invite the Swiss government to do it for the world
:0) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul
Rosenzweig</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">O:
+1 (202) 547-0660</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">M:
+1 (202) 329-9650</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">VOIP:
+1 (202) 738-1739</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My
PGP Key: <a
href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>
<<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 27, 2018 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> AW: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] New gTLD
Subsequent Procedures PDP: Work Track 5 Comments</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dear
Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">You
may overlooked that I suggested that this information may
be assembled by ICANN and offered to potential applicants
through e.g. an advisory panel – see points (3) and (4) I
proposed at the beginning…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In
the age of big data that should be simple.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">sorry
if I did not express this with absolute clarity…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jorge
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="DE"> Paul Rosenzweig [<a
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 27. Juni 2018 16:26<br>
<b>An:</b> Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] New gTLD
Subsequent Procedures PDP: Work Track 5 Comments</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I’m
not sure that can work – now an applicant would have to be
familiar with the law of 190+ nations to determine which
are “cities” and which are not and therefore which need to
pre-clear the application and which don’t.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">ICANN
is an international organization. It works because it
relies on international standards. If there is an
international standard on what defines a city, that’s a
plausible ground (though I would disagree with it in
substance). The idea that an applicant needs to know
Swiss law and Bhutanese law and Kazahk law on defining
cities is simply not realistic.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul
Rosenzweig</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">M:
+1 (202) 329-9650</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">VOIP:
+1 (202) 738 1739</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a
href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 26, 2018 6:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] New gTLD
Subsequent Procedures PDP: Work Track 5 Comments</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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