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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">+1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Kind regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Katrin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">DOTZON GmbH - digital identities for tomorrow<br>
Akazienstrasse 28<br>
10823 Berlin<br>
Deutschland - Germany<br>
Tel: +49 30 49802722<br>
Fax: +49 30 49802727<br>
Mobile: +49 173 2019240<br>
<a href="mailto:ohlmer@dotzon.consulting">ohlmer@dotzon.consulting</a><br>
<a href="http://www.dotzon.consulting">www.dotzon.consulting</a><br>
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><br>
DOTZON GmbH<br>
Registergericht: Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg, HRB 118598<br>
Geschäftsführer: Katrin Ohlmer<br>
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Akazienstrasse 28, 10823 Berlin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Von:</b> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Ann-Cathrin Marcussen<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 21. August 2018 13:00<br>
<b>An:</b> Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">+ 1 from me also. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards / Med vennlig hilsen <br>
<br>
Ann-Cathrin Marcussen<br>
Head of Legal<br>
<br>
<br>
UNINETT Norid AS<br>
7465 Trondheim<br>
<br>
Oslokontor<br>
St Olavs Plass 2<br>
0165 Oslo <br>
<br>
Mobil +47 920 14 282<br>
<a href="mailto:acm@norid.no">acm@norid.no</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">21. aug. 2018 kl. 12:55 skrev Nick Wenban-Smith <<a href="mailto:Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk">Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">+1 from me on this, this seemed a good compromise solution for capital cities, names of cities where the application was intended to represent the people of the city plus the sub-national names<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">As can be seen by the successful delegations from the 2012 round (if we can smooth that process as Jorge suggests then even better)<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">If it isn’t broken then let’s not try to fix it, there are other areas such as the non-AGB2012 geo terms for which we don’t have any solution at present<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch"><span style="color:purple">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</span></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>21 August 2018 07:39<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">The beauty of the current system (the non-objection letter) is that it implies a system of subsidiarity. In countries where (for whatever reasons) local authorities have
no rights, policies whatsoever, they will have to abide by that framework and respond that they have no-objection. Otherwise they would be breaking the law.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">In those countries where there are rights, policies or whatsoever that allow a local authority to intervene regarding their names/identifiers, they will have to follow the
law when providing the letter of non-objection, setting condition or even denying it.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">So, with the 2012 AGB the ICANN actually applied a principle of subsidiarity here, without trying to impose a “one-size-fits all” approach, but allowing for different local
approaches.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">In general, as local authorities are bound by law, their actions can be subject to review.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">As to potential tardiness or absence of reply: as we have discussed, the new AGB could provide for deadlines for responses by the local government; it may even provide for
an implied non-objection if there is no response within the deadline; and there can be even a mediation process being established in case the applicant does not agree with the decision from the local authority…</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Best regards</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Jorge</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b>Von:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Im
Auftrag von<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>McGrady, Paul D.<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Montag, 20. August 2018 17:11<br>
<b>An:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin"><span style="color:purple">alexander@schubert.berlin</span></a>;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Thanks Alexander. Your email shows why a one-ICANN-size does not fit all.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">I’m not sure what free speech is, or is not, like in Berlin. None of the other three examples you use (assuming you are referring to the US cities of Denver, Dallas and
Chicago) would be permitted under the First Amenment to restrain speech by insisting no one else could apply for .Denver, .Dallas, or .Chicago (and culturally, even if it was permitted, the people of Dallas certainly, and perhaps even the people of Denver,
would never go for such a restriction). So while Berlin may fall squarely into the paradigm you would like ICANN to adopt, the other 75% of your examples do not. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Likewise, having ICANN start down the path of free speech curtailment in large city names does lead to the problem of ICANN getting involved in the “who deserves it” business
– your very poignant example of Berlin v Belarus v Azerbaijan shows just how messy that can be. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">The compromise struck in the last round – protecting capital cities – was a major concession by the free speech crowd within ICANN. As your email makes clear, expanding
that concession to even more cities will be incredibly complex and will inevitably curtail speech that otherwise would be granted to some if ICANN didn’t go down this path. I think it is time for us to come to grips that ICANN simply can’t be a supranational
legislator. Please keep in mind that for those who want to work with cities to develop a market for second levels in those city names, there is no prohibition against them going to those cities and working with the cities to apply as community applications,
which applications would trump a garden variety non-community application. The problem you are trying to address has already been solved.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Best,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Paul</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Alexander Schubert<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 20, 2018 8:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">To add to this thought:<br>
<br>
We are grossly INCONSISTENT with the protection levels that we are establishing. Right now we claim a country can NOT be allowed to support an application for their 3-letter code or country name within the gNSO policy framework – because we need to protect
the country from “harm”. We are BANNING all these strings completely! But sizeable cities: anything goes, and thanks to the non-geo use provision: no protections whatsoever!</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">Now let’s compare countries and cities (and obviously I am doing this since 2006 A LOT – when I lobbied with Dirk for .berlin to come into existence):</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">A city like Berlin has 3.5 Million people in the city limits, and roughly 5.5 Million in the metro area. Compared to countries:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white"><span lang="EN-US">50% of all countries are smaller than the Berlin metro area</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white"><span lang="EN-US">Still over 100 countries are smaller than Berlin within its city limits</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;background:white">
<span lang="EN-US">63 countries (more than 25%) have populations under 1 Million people!</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">So indeed: a Million inhabitant city is just population-wise at least as important and impacting as more than a quarter of all countries. BUT: if you look at a city like Berlin (or Denver, Dallas,
Chicago): we aren’t just comparing population size! We are talking about domain name spaces, gTLDs! In that respect we ought to factor in the Internet penetration, the GDP and number of businesses (because they need domains – and Internet users will utilize
these domains to find the businesses), cultural and political importance, etc. If you factor all this in, and compare Berlin to Belarus (a country I truly admire, beautiful capital, our southern neighbor) or Azerbaijan (each of both have 10 million people):
Berlin uses WAY MORE domain names than these both. So suddenly a Million people city in an industrialized nation probably plays in the top 60% of countries – domain name usage wise.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">I am wrapping my head around cities and gTLDs for probably way too long (14 years). But most of the times I observe that most people just don’t understand how HYPER IMPORTANT cities are as an
organizational entity in the personal and business life of people. We are totally overprotecting country-geo-entities; but seemingly have no problem whatsoever that via the “non-geo use” loophole everybody and their greed grandma could snag up city based gTLDs
en masse.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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I think we either scrap the non-geo use provision altogether (which I personally do NOT support at all); or we at least elevate SIZEABLE cities to the same protection level as country subdivisions (these are by the way are often quite unknown, un-impacting
and typically relatively small population-wise. Inconsistent.)</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">And as the brand-cloud seemingly today admitted: there are ZERO “curative” rights in the case of a city-supported application vs. a brand application. It’s “big bucks win”. I am consulting companies
in regard to domain acquisition since 21 years now (started in 1997) – and let me tell you: contrary to the picture painted here in another message; most of the larger brands have no problems to slap several Million Dollars on a domain asset; if they really
want it. No chance for a city constituent, non-profit public benefit entity to survive at all. But my bigger concern are VC capital infused portfolio applicants who are simply applying for dozens of city names – declaring non-geo use. Obviously city supported
applications do currently NOT “top” non-geo use applications; and what then? They city supported applicant is likely non-profit AND had likely to make concessions to the city. Their business plan is much weaker – as they strive to be public-benefit and all.
How can they win an auction against VC funded applicants?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">The city gTLD process as we have set it up is HEAVELY stacked against the type of applicant that we always wanted to see: A good actor, public benefit, community supported, community owned & funded,
non-profit, etc. <br>
<br>
Unfair, not in the interest of the Internet user or the city constituents, not in sync with ICANN’s mandate. All we are asking for is to require city support for city name applications if the city is really BIG (in comparison to for example countries). And
if that cut-off size were a Million people. VC money will likely not go for cities with less than a Million people – the registrar channel won’t sell enough domains to sustain the application.<br>
<br>
Thanks,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">Alexander</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org"><span style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Marita Moll<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 20, 2018 9:10 AM<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Sorry Greg, no intention to be prejudicial. I am not arguing that the non-geo use clause be closed entirely. I am suggesting that it not be available in the case of very large cities.
If we are talking about cities of 1M people, that's about 500-600 cities, defined by an authoritative list we agree on. A good number will already be reserved as capital cities.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The word inventory makes it sound huge, like thousands of names are involved. That's not the case. It is very limited. I don't see that as an unreasonable compromise.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Marita</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On 8/20/2018 1:20 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I object to calling this feature a “loophole.” That is both prejudicial and incorrect as well. What we have is a reasonable limit
on the Consent right that was given to non-capitol cities in the prior round.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">From an end-user perspective, there is no presumption that a geo-use is superior to any other possible use of a given string.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">From a city perspective, nothing we are doing here limits the ability of a city to apply for a string related to their city name.
We are just not reserving numerous possibilities exclusively for their choice when or if they look into the idea of a TLD. And we are not reserving “inventory” for private businesses that consult in the geo-name space. That would truly be outside our remit.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Best regards,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Greg</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 1:54 PM Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mmoll@ca.inter.net</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I totally agree with getting rid of the non-geo use loophole for large cities - at least those with 1M+ inhabitants.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">It just doesn't make sense that a non-geo use contender could beat out a collective of over1M people. This is a lot of people who would be disadvantaged, if it came to a contest.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I don't see the suggestion of having cities pass laws as very practical. It is within our mandate to make this recommendation and we should do it, on behalf of millions of citizens
of cities around the world.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Marita</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On 8/17/2018 2:10 PM, Alexander Schubert wrote:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Dear WT,</span><a name="m_-8281451006298984630_m_-82852475957322"></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Mike and Farzaneh have a point when they claim “Governments don’t OWN any of these codes”. And I concur with them: Governments do not “own” these codes. These codes identify
a “national subdivision” (IS0 3166-Alpha-2) or a “country”; hence they are identifiers. Not “owned” by nobody – like the air or the water isn’t “owned” by anybody. Yet we still strive to PROTECT the air and the water, right? So it is clean and everybody can
use it – and not one big company can pollute it just to make more money.<br>
<br>
And that is probably Kavouss’ narrative (a very valuable one!):<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
That these codes and names (ISO 3166 Alpha-2 & 3 and the country names) are important and of utter relevance for the people of the respective countries and subdivisions; and can’t simply be “taken” by some brand.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Seemingly some in this group see “Governments” as kleptomaniac entities that try to pry as much “public land” out of this gTLD application process as possible. But try to
look at this from another perspective:<br>
<br>
People are organized in hyper large “tribes” – the largest organizational entities probably being their countries, but also states and cities (hence we are protecting exactly these three silos right now). When I lived in Germany I felt first and foremost as
“Berliner”. As opposed to for example to “Bavarian” (who are the natural “enemy” of Berliners). I also felt being German of course. And European. Berlin, Germany and Europe are extremely important identifiers for me and my identity. These three geo-entities
obviously need to be governed by the people, for the people. By a Government of the people. And usually in Europe that’s how things are set up (sadly outside of Europe sometimes minorities dictate the majority what to do – but that’s another issue).<br>
<br>
I expect from the Berlin Government (the capital of Germany, a German State and on the 3166-2 country subdivision list), from the German Government and from the European Commission to make sure that the important identifiers “.berlin”, “.de”, “.deutschland”,
“.germany”, “.eu” and “.europe” are safeguarded from abuse or exclusive use by some “brand”! That the respective authorities make sure that these strings are readily available for ME as citizen and business owner (not for the Governments) to aid me in creating
domain names that help identifying my tribe(s).<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
I EXPECT that Governments “protect” these strings – ON BEHALF OF ME and all of the other citizens. This is all about the needs of THE PEOPLE, Governments are merely identifying such needs, and aid in protecting them.<br>
<br>
And the Governments are delivering! They do guard these identifiers – and I shall be thankful for it. Hence it bewilders me when “brand owners” are attempting to shame my elected representatives for protecting MY identifiers. By attacking the “Governments”
– in reality you attack the citizens these Governments have been elected by – and who they are govern.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">But I do agree that we ought to reign in the SCOPE of identifiers; and the degree of protection. By completely BANNING all country names and 3166 Alpha-3 codes – even if
the relevant Government would happily support such application – we at ICANN overprotect. It is then not anymore Governments who stop applications – it is ICANN that does. ICANN denies Governments to allow entities to apply. And does that even make sense?
Give Governments some authority – don’t decide ON THEIR BEHALF.<br>
<br>
<b>Which leads me to the one item we still haven’t solved:<br>
What about contention between a SIZEABLE geo-entity (with a LOT of citizens that want to use such string as identifier) and a generic term based application or a brand, or a small geo entity</b>. Examples:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="m-8281451006298984630m-8285247595732267424msolistparagraph" style="background:white">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">A
city constituent funded and owned .shanghai (24 Million people city) application vs. a brand “SHANGHAI” that claims “non-geo use”?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8281451006298984630m-8285247595732267424msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;background:white">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Right
now this would go into normal contention resolution; aka: either the city constituents raise a lot of money to buy the brand out; or they go into last resort auction and like the brand can easily outbid them.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8281451006298984630m-8285247595732267424msolistparagraph" style="background:white">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">A
Dallas, TX (7 Million people metro) city constituent funded and owned .dallas application vs. a “pseudo city application” for the city of Texas, Georgia, USA (a real U.S. city, even if small). Say their Major has been “bribed” in some way into signing a letter
of support! Such application wouldn’t come from the tiny city itself – likely some “vulture” would use a loophole here!</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8281451006298984630m-8285247595732267424msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt;background:white">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">As
per the current contention set rules as TWO DIFFERENT entities provided Government support BOTH applications would be put on hold – if there was no contention resolution BOTH applicants would get their application fees reimbursed. So there is zero risk for
the “vulture” – they can lean back and wait for the offers for a “buy out” rolling in! These applications would NOT be subjected to the last resort auction! A LOOPHOLE!</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">City names in contention is a conglomerate of glaring loopholes. Brands and vultures can declare “non-geo use” – and outbid the city constituents! A city community owned
and funded application is always financially “weak” – as they have to make all kinds of concessions to the city usually. The worst case is somebody coercing a small city major into signing a letter of support – and forcing the applicants for a large city to
buy them out. If such applicant is lucky, nobody applied for the large city – and he has a city designated gTLD – and would be allowed to MARKET it as city TLD! GREAT. The citizens of the large city are wholly unprotected from exploitation. If both cities
are in ONE country – maybe national law can help. But if they are in different countries?<br>
<br>
We need to better protect the larger city-populations (people who live in sizable cities). We create all kinds of protections for 3-lettercodes or country subdivisions – but we do not protect these very large geo-communities very good. Why? Inconsistent. It
is OK that we have the “non-geo use provision in place for small cities”. But SIZEABLE cities need a protection equal to country subdivisions (elimination of non-geo use). Even if we were to define “sizable” at a real high number. Million people cities mean:
at least a million people that identify with the name! At least a million people who are robbed of their possibility to use city-based gTLD domains. A city robbed of their possibility to conduct city destination marketing, eGovernment and similar things under
one nice identifier (usually cities reserve strings for official use, such as 911.city, townhall.city, visit.city, etc).<br>
<br>
Question: If a “brand” (whatever the definition is – probably a simple TM registration for US $250 does the trick) claims a string; and is in contention with a sizeable city:<br>
If we keep the “non-geo use” loophole alive; what can the citizens of such city do? Does the current AGB provide for a successful path in “objection” (so called “curative rights”)? Or wouldn’t the brand simply declare that they have “TM rights” – thus the objection
would be unsubstantiated? Lawyers here: Would a city objection against a brand application have ANY chance of success? Please be honest! I know you are fiercely defending your position – but I also know that you are honest: how would you defend a brand against
such objection? Would you simply cave in?<br>
<br>
We have soon the “consensus call” on city applications – but I don’t see that we have a clear understanding of the implications of contentions. Yes: in the 2012 round there were no problems. But then only a small percentage of brands claimed their strings,
and only a few cities (of which many were capitals) did so. The next wave will contain more brands and less capitals but WAY more cities – plus “tricksters” will try to make a buck: We need to pay more attention.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
Thanks,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Alexander</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Arasteh<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Freitag, 17. August 2018 08:35<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Mike Rodenbaugh<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple"><mike@rodenbaugh.com></span></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Edmon<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:edmon@dot.asia" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple"><edmon@dot.asia></span></a>; leonard obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple"><gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org></span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Dear All</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Yes they are valuable for those countries too</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">There should be a fair treatment of these TLDs but not over warehousing for merely commercial and brand purposes</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Alexander’s suggestion may be a middle ground solution </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Regards</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Kavouss .</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Sent from my iPhone</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
On 17 Aug 2018, at 03:08, Mike Rodenbaugh <<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mike@rodenbaugh.com</span></a>> wrote:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">That over 600 very valuable 2- and 3-letter combos that could be TLDs, and yet are reserved for no legitimate reason. Countries certainly
don't own LL codes that don't correspond to current countries. And they also don't "own" the 3-letter codes that do show up on an ISO list, merely because they are on that list. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">It seems to me that many in this group are reopening the discussion as to all other 'geo' terms, and so these valuable names need to
be thrown back into the mix as well.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br clear="all">
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Mike Rodenbaugh</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">RODENBAUGH LAW</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frodenbaugh.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpmcgrady%40winston.com%7Cafdc47ac5e054d7492f108d606a3c85a%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636703697848336641&sdata=UWDK1I6LmXr1mP5Q9M3pakExQTW06pulcbhgwkE1tNc%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://rodenbaugh.com</span></a> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 8:22 PM, Nick Wenban-Smith <<a href="mailto:Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Hi Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Just to take the point here, the LL (all combinations 26 x 26 = 676 in total, of which approaching half are already in use as ccTLDs) plus the ISO
3166 alpha 3 LLL combinations which correspond to existing country and territory names (less than 300 of the 17,500 odd LLL combinations) can’t in any reasonable context be framed as ‘a large subset … reserved for no reasons whatsoever’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Up until now there seems to be a strong consensus for the long and short form country and territory names plus all the LL combinations and LLL combinations
which correspond to ISO 3166 to continue to be excluded from any gTLD processes – for the reasons expressed on many threads up to this point about sovereignty over national assets and whether these could fall under domestic internet community policies (subsidiarity)
or ICANN GNSO policies.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If we can’t settle on that as for the 2012 AGB round then there will be a substantial opposition to any new gTLDs whatsoever so let’s not go there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I’ve said my piece on geo names falling below the hierarchy of capital cities; I think those are fair game for legit non geo uses.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Best wishes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
<<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mike
Rodenbaugh<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>10 August 2018 03:35<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Edmon <<a href="mailto:edmon@dot.asia" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">edmon@dot.asia</span></a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>leonard obonyo via Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Note the first sentence in the RFC that Alexander cites: "This memo provides information for the Internet community. This memo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre style="background:white"> does not specify an Internet standard of any kind."<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Since this WT5 appears to want to reopen every "geographic" issue imaginable, we need to add 2-character LL and 3-character geo TLDs to the mix.
That is a large subset of potentially very valuable and useful names, reserved for no legitimate reason whatsoever.<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Mike Rodenbaugh</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">RODENBAUGH LAW</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:32 PM, Edmon <<a href="mailto:edmon@dot.asia" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">edmon@dot.asia</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">IDN "cc"TLDs already broke (free from) that also.<br>
Edmon<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
From: Mike Rodenbaugh <<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mike@rodenbaugh.com</span></a>><br>
Sent: 10 August 2018 2:43:34 AM GMT+10:00<br>
To: Alexander Schubert <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">alexander@schubert.berlin</span></a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.<br>
<br>
What purpose does that distinction serve anyone? I think it is meaningless<br>
and entirely unnecessary, depriving the world of many very valuable<br>
two-character TLDs that have no reason to be sitting idle.<br>
<br>
Mike Rodenbaugh<br>
RODENBAUGH LAW<br>
tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087<br>
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frodenbaugh.com&data=02%7C01%7Cpmcgrady%40winston.com%7Cafdc47ac5e054d7492f108d606a3c85a%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636703697848336641&sdata=UWDK1I6LmXr1mP5Q9M3pakExQTW06pulcbhgwkE1tNc%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://rodenbaugh.com</span></a><br>
<br>
On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 2:57 AM, Alexander Schubert <<br>
<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">alexander@schubert.berlin</span></a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear Annabeth, dear Carlos,<br>
><br>
> I agree with Annabeth. RFC 1591 (who doesn't know it by heart: check<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fietf.org%2Frfc%2Frfc1591.txt&data=02%7C01%7Cpmcgrady%40winston.com%7Cafdc47ac5e054d7492f108d606a3c85a%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636703697848336641&sdata=8jzkMQGvhCxVM4Nj%2BNFajFjwEzgZfuipvArVNY%2FcnNY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ietf.org/rfc/rfc1591.txt</span></a>)
cemented the one and only real differentiator<br>
> in the DNS:<br>
> That there are ccTLDs; operated and organized by authority (which may be<br>
> deligated like in .tv) of countries/nations. And that these are two<br>
> character strings. That everything exceeding two characters are gTLDs.<br>
><br>
> If we want to keep this (rather artificial - but to date well working)<br>
> BASE order of the DNS; we should refrain from assigning two character<br>
> gTLDs. It's a TINY amount of potentially available strings anyway.<br>
><br>
> The two character vs more than two character distinction needs to be<br>
> uphold; BOTH WAYS (no three letter ccTLDs).<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Alexander<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Sent from my Samsung device<br>
><br>
><br>
> -------- Original message --------<br>
> From: Annebeth Lange <<a href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">annebeth.lange@norid.no</span></a>><br>
> Date: 8/8/18 23:48 (GMT+02:00)<br>
> To: Carlos Raul Gutierrez <<a href="mailto:carlosraul@gutierrez.se" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">carlosraul@gutierrez.se</span></a>><br>
> Cc:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call<br>
> on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.<br>
><br>
> Hi Carlos<br>
><br>
> Could I ask you for one clarification? If we open up for some<br>
> 2-letter/letter combinations in the GNSO process, they will automatically<br>
> be gTLDs. You don’t think that will disturb the distinction we have had<br>
> from the beginning that 2-characters are ccTLDs and 3 or more gTLDs?<br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
> Annebeth<br>
><br>
><br>
> Annebeth B Lange<br>
> Special Adviser International Policy<br>
> UNINETT Norid AS<br>
> Phone: +47 959 11 559<br>
> Mail:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:annebeth.lange@norid.no" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">annebeth.lange@norid.no</span></a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 8. aug. 2018 kl. 22:43 skrev Carlos Raul Gutierrez <<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:carlosraul@gutierrez.se" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">carlosraul@gutierrez.se</span></a>>:<br>
><br>
> My comments to today's call:<br>
><br>
> 1. “The ICANN Community may want to consider whether a future process<br>
> should be established or determine if, when, and how specific interested<br>
> parties, such as relevant government authorities, may apply for country and<br>
> territory names” This paragraph is the only sensible part of a<br>
> forward-looking recommendation and should/could be redrafted. I wonder if<br>
> it could be enhanced, or if the only way to go is deletion as CW<br>
> suggested. A shorter more concise version? A more “liberal” version? How<br>
> about: “ICANN may consider applications by specific interested parties,<br>
> such as relevant authorities, of strings that are not current or future<br>
> countries or territories.” Ps: The text in Recommendation 1 “reserving ALL<br>
> two character letter letter” combinations- can be enhanced. I wonder if<br>
> it’s truly ALL, or if the potential for future countries and potential<br>
> combinations is really much less broad? Could that be qualified somehow? I<br>
> can’t think of a future .xx or .ññ country or territory and maybe we could<br>
> tweak the language to open this a bit and garner broad community support to<br>
> move forward.<br>
><br>
> 2. Other than recommendation #1, I object strongly the text to "keep geo<br>
> names from the delegation" in any other recommedation, unless a clear<br>
> rationale is added to the recommendation<br>
><br>
><br>
> 3. I hope no draft goes out before a substantial non-AGB names discussion<br>
> has taken place, including to geographic related, cultural, linguistic and<br>
> other social elements, ,like Apache Nation<br>
><br>
><br>
> Best regards<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ---<br>
> Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:carlosraul@gutierrez.se" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">carlosraul@gutierrez.se</span></a><br>
> +506 8837 7176<br>
> Aparatado 1571-1000<br>
> COSTA RICA<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> El 2018-08-08 05:09, Emily Barabas escribió:<br>
><br>
> Dear Work Track members,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Please find attached suggested revisions to the draft recommendations<br>
> shared yesterday. Please note that this revised text includes<br>
> clarifications and typo corrections only. Feedback on some of the more<br>
> substantive issues will be discussed further on today's call.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
><br>
> Emily<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From: *Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</span></a>> on<br>
> behalf of Martin Sutton <<a href="mailto:martin@brandregistrygroup.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">martin@brandregistrygroup.org</span></a>><br>
> *Date: *Monday, 6 August 2018 at 14:45<br>
> *To: *"<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a>><br>
> *Subject: *[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] WT5 Agenda, Work Plan & Consensus Call<br>
> on Country & Territory Names - Please review before our call.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Dear Work Track members,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Please find below the proposed agenda for the WT5 call on Wednesday 8<br>
> August at 13:00 UTC:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> 1. Welcome/Agenda Review/SOI Updates<br>
> 2. Review of Consensus Call Process and Work Plan<br>
> 3. Consensus Call on Country and Territory Names<br>
> 4. Wrap Up - Non-AGB Terms<br>
> 5. AOB<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On our upcoming call, the leadership team will introduce a work plan aimed<br>
> at wrapping up WT5's work and delivering an Initial Report by the end of<br>
> September. In maintaining this timeline, the leadership is seeking to<br>
> ensure that Work Track 5 inputs can be effectively integrated into the work<br>
> of the broader New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP Working Group in time for<br>
> delivery of the PDP's Final Report. A copy of the work plan is attached.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> As outlined in the work plan, the leadership team will be holding a series<br>
> of consensus calls on potential recommendations to include in WT5's Initial<br>
> Report. These will be introduced in clusters, with the first set of<br>
> recommendations focusing on country and territory names. The draft<br>
> recommendations, which will be discussed on Wednesday, are attached. *Work<br>
> Track members are encouraged to review and provide feedback on these draft<br>
> recommendations prior to the call on Wednesday*. The leadership team will<br>
> officially open the consensus call on this topic following Wednesday's<br>
> call. For more information on the consensus call process that will be<br>
> followed, please see the GNSO Working Group Guidelines, Section 3.6:<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgnso.icann.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Ffile%2Ffield-file-attach%2Fannex-1-&data=02%7C01%7Cpmcgrady%40winston.com%7Cafdc47ac5e054d7492f108d606a3c85a%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636703697848336641&sdata=5tPAZsMtAaecqOOYth%2BEcK8kT6NWj2haeKX5mFCx8l8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/annex-1-</span></a><br>
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> .<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> If you need a dial out for the upcoming call or would like to send an<br>
> apology, please email<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gnso-secs@icann.org</span></a>.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> WT5 Co-Leads<br>
><br>
> Annebeth Lange<br>
><br>
> Javier Rua<br>
><br>
> Olga Cavalli<br>
><br>
> Martin Sutton<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a><br>
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><br>
> <Draft Recommendations - country and territory names - v4.pdf><br>
><br>
> <Draft Recommendations - country and territory names - v4.docx><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<br>
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><br>
><br>
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><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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<pre style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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