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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>Jaap,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I agree, and therefore I for example usually always try to use these terms:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b>ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 Codes<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>these are the 2-letter codes used for ccTLDs, like “DE” for Germany<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>these are in Part 1 of “ISO 3166”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b>ISO 3166-1 Alpha-3 Codes<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>these are the 3-letter codes for countries like “DEU” for Germany<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>these are also in Part 1 of “ISO 3166”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b>ISO 3166-2 Country Subdivision Names </b>(NOT the “codes”!)<b><o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>These are usually states, provinces, districts, etc<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>these are in Part 2 of “ISO 3166”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>The “ISO 3166-2 Country Subdivisions” also have “codes” – but we do not protect the CODES but rather the NAMES! Example: There is a subdivision “Bayern” in Germany (Bavaria). The “code” is “DE-BY”. But that’s not what we protect. We protect the NAME itself: “Bayern”.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>It’s one thing how people call these in our working emails. And you are right: we should all be very precise. But we WT members usually know what is meant. When it comes to the AGB we really need to be SUPER precise – and very consistent! So my suggestion for the use in the AGB:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b>ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 Codes (alternatively: “alpha-2 codes listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard”)<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>the 2-letter country codes of ISO 3166 Part 1<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>these are real “codes” and not “names”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b>ISO 3166 -1 Alpha-3 Codes (alternatively: “alpha-3 codes listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard”)<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>the 3-letter country codes of ISO 3166 Part 1<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>these are real “codes” and not “names”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b>ISO 3166 -2 Country Subdivision Names (alternatively: “country subdivision names listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard”)<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>Officially called “principal subdivisions of countries“ and located in ISO 3166 Part 2<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>Again: here we target the NAME – not the “code” (we target “Bayern” and not “DE-BY”) – hence we do not say “Country Subdivision Codes” but “Country Subdivision Names”.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText>The 2012 AGB uses “<b><i><span style='color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>sub-national place name, such as a county, province, or state, listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard</span></i></b>” in section 2.2.1.4.2 (3) when it refers to “ISO 3166 -2 Country Subdivision Names”. ISO calls the CODES (which is not what we want to protect) “codes for identifying principal subdivisions of countries” and in other places “country subdivision codes”. I haven’t found the term “sub-national place name” in official ISO documents. So while it’s clear what is meant – it’s not ISO language. So the targeted strings are in my mind: “Country Subdivision Names” – and usually that column is always called “Subdivision Name”. We might want to consider to not use “sub-national place name” in the AGB anymore.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><br>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Alexander<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jaap Akkerhuis<br>Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2018 3:36 PM<br>To: gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org<br>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items -- remarks about ISO 3166 terminology used</p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>A quick scan of the working document shows rather inconsistent use of ISO 3166 related terms.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Quite some of these uses stem from citing the AGB. There is not a lot to do about that, we should not change history too much. But for the current document we could do better I hope.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Often one reads things like "codes listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard".<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>What really is meant here is "codes listed in the standard ISO 3166 Part 2". What makes this important is that people are confusing the -2 suffix with the length of the code. We should be more careful in using proper terminology and if one wants to use "3166-1" as a shortcut for "ISO 3166 Part 2" it should somewhere be explained.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>An example of unclear use is a sentence like:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText> "meaningful representations of a country or territory name on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText> the ISO 3166-2 standard"<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>What is really meant here? Country and territory names appear in ISO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>3166 Part one, ISO 3166 Part 2 talks about subdivisions only. (It might be quoted from an old AGB so can't be changed, but it is still confusing),<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Something like "ISO 3166 3-letter codes, country subdivisions (3166 Alpha-2)" becomes quite confusing very fast. in general ISO talks about alpha-3 etc. codes and 3166 Part 1 had alpha-2 and alpha-3 codes. ISO 3166 Part 2 is about codes for subdivision codes. These codes are not related to the alpha-3 codes of Part 1 but consist of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>alpha-2 codes from part 1 followed by "up to 3 characters".<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>The working document talks about alpha-3 or 2 codes, 2/3 characters, and 2/3 letter codes etc. Most times they seem to be used denoting the same but I'm not always when non-ASCII codes are involved.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I know, it is hard to be consistent it the terminology but it is worth the effort.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText> jaap<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>