<div dir="ltr">I agree with Heather, Sophie and others. My view is we should be pushing the other way, to make clear that governments do NOT have geo priority rights in the ICANN system. Too many governments exercised more power, within the amorphous ICANN system, than they could possibly ever have justified under international law or even their own domestic law. Those include the Amazon governments, the Persian Gulf governments, and the government of Montenegro (home of the not-famous "Bar" province), and of course the Spa fiasco. They deserve no more protection now. <div><br></div><div>I suggest a rule that if a name is not clearly listed as a capital city, etc., on a defined list appended to the AGB, then that name is free for anyone to operate as a TLD. That is the certainty that applicants deserve from ICANN, without regard to unforeseen whims of government bureaucrats. <div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Mike Rodenbaugh</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">RODENBAUGH LAW</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><a href="http://rodenbaugh.law" target="_blank">http://rodenbaugh.law</a> </div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 9:28 AM Sophie Hey <<a href="mailto:sophie.hey@valideus.com">sophie.hey@valideus.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Dear all,</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">I agree with Heather’s points articulated below. In particular, that ICANN should not:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940MsoListParagraph" style="color:black;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Be used as a body to enforce domestic law;<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940MsoListParagraph" style="color:black;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Determine against whom domestic law should/should not be enforced;<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940MsoListParagraph" style="color:black;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Impose prioritisation of “geographic” terms that is only mandated in some domestic laws on all applicants.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Further, ICANN has moved away from their original proof of concept application process for gTLDs. I am concerned that prioritising geo use would move back towards
ICANN making value judgments about individual applications – something which the community has previously decided against. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Kind regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Sophie Hey<br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Policy Advisor<br>
<b>Valideus</b><br>
D: +44 (0) 20 7421 8252<br>
E: <a href="mailto:sophie.hey@valideus.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">sophie.hey@valideus.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Heather Forrest<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 August 2019 12:20<br>
<b>To:</b> Katrin Ohlmer | DOTZON GmbH <<a href="mailto:ohlmer@dotzon.com" target="_blank">ohlmer@dotzon.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Proposed Agenda - Work Track 5 - 7 August 2019 at 20:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Katrin, all,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not support the changes to the AGB that are proposed here, because I do not believe that there is a sufficient rationale for making these changes. Among the many things about which we disagree in WT5, I hold onto our shared understanding
that the GNSO Council, the ICANN Board, and the broader community will demand that we provide a clearly articulated, reasonable rationale for any changes to the AGB. There isn't a clear rationale here for eliminating an independent Geographic Names Panel that
makes arms length, neutral evaluations of applications. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The proposed change A to Module 4 imposes on all applicants a requirement of certain countries' domestic law that has no equivalent in international law. I'm not at all arguing against prioritisation requirements in the domestic law of
any country, and no ICANN policy can take away those rights created under a country's domestic law. Those rights will always be recognised in national courts, and enforceable against (and only against) those subject to the law of that jurisdiction. ICANN is
not an appropriate body to enforce domestic law or even, taking a step back, to determine against whom domestic law should/should not be enforced (we can imagine disputes here in interpretation of, for example, "if the applicant for the geoTLD is based in
a country where national law gives precedent to city and/or regional names"). <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The proposed change B to Module 4 likewise gets ICANN into the business of deeming one party (larger population) as having more right than another party (smaller population). Again, problems of interpretation are inevitable (ie, where are
the boundaries when counting population, etc), and more importantly, this imposes a prioritisation that is mandated in only some domestic laws on all applicants, including those who are not otherwise subject to those laws. ICANN policy should, of course, not
impede the enforceability of domestic law, but it is not ICANN's job to be the enforcer. We can analogise here, love it or not, to the EPDP - the pre-GDPR WHOIS protocol embedded in the RAA and RRA made it impossible for contracted parties subject to the GDPR
to comply with that law. The EPDP's job is not to develop a policy that enforces GDPR, but rather to develop a policy under which it is possible for those parties subject to that law to comply with both ICANN contractual requirements and that law - it isn't
ICANN's role to determine who is subject to the GDPR, but simply to make that compliance possible under the ICANN contractual framework.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am concerned that we have now moved so far away in WT5 from the original 2007-2008 principles of the GNSO, which upheld what was even then a longstanding tradition in ICANN policy of not putting ICANN in the position of having to make
prioritsation decisions, ie, not determining one party as being more worthy than another. We struggled with concepts like auctions and so forth in 2007-2008 and in the years since to resolve conflicts, but the driving force behind those ideas was always to
provide an equal and fair opportunity unless international legal principles said otherwise. The specific body of international law on geographic names has not changed since then, so I do not feel that we are in a position to deviate from those now, as regards
this proposal or indeed any of our recommendations in WT5.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Heather Forrest<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 3:28 AM Katrin Ohlmer | DOTZON GmbH <<a href="mailto:ohlmer@dotzon.com" target="_blank">ohlmer@dotzon.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Dear All,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">as announced, I would like to provide the proposal of the geoTLD group on the topic 4 „Changes to string contention resolution“:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Update Applicant Guidebook, Chapter 2.2.1.4.4 with:</span></b><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">If an application for a string representing a geographic name is in a contention set with applications for identical strings that have not been identified as geographical
names, the string contention will be resolved using the string contention procedures described in Module 4.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Update Applicant Guidebook, Module 4. with:</span></b><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">A// In case there is contention for a string where one application intends to use the string as a non-capital city name or designated the TLD to targeting it to
a geographic meaning, preference should be given to the applicant who will use the TLD for geographic purposes if the applicant for the geoTLD is based in a country where national law gives precedent to city and/or regional names.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="DE">RATIONALE: This would reflect national law e.g. in countries like Switzerland and Germany, where e.g. city names have more rights that holders of the same name.</span></i><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">B// If there is more than one applicant for an identical string representing a geographic name, and the applications have requisite government approvals, the applicant
with the larger no of inhabitants will prevail over the smaller one. As the criteria „size“ has been used in the CPE criteria, it is apparently a well-accepted criteria.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="DE">RATIONALE: This would reflect the current rule of the Applicant Guidebook „capital city has priority over smaller city.</span></i><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">I’m happy to explain our thoughts until our call, individually or on the list.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Kind regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Katrin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">DOTZON GmbH - digital identities for tomorrow<br>
Akazienstrasse 28<br>
10823 Berlin<br>
Deutschland - Germany<br>
Tel: +49 30 49802722<br>
Fax: +49 30 49802727<br>
Mobile: +49 173 2019240<br>
<a href="mailto:ohlmer@dotzon.consulting" target="_blank">ohlmer@dotzon.consulting</a><br>
<a href="http://www.dotzon.consulting/" target="_blank">www.dotzon.consulting</a></span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Besuchen Sie uns auf
<a href="https://de.linkedin.com/company/dotzon-gmbh" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a>.</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
DOTZON GmbH<br>
Registergericht: Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg, HRB 118598<br>
Geschäftsführer: Katrin Ohlmer<br>
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Akazienstrasse 28, 10823 Berlin</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span lang="DE"> Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Emily Barabas<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 6. August 2019 12:14<br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Proposed Agenda - Work Track 5 - 7 August 2019 at 20:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Please find below the proposed agenda for the Work Track 5 call tomorrow, 7 August 2019 at 20:00 UTC for 90 minutes:</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940gmail-m3570562108390612455gmail-m-6948882102649180358gmail-m4313396889057425669msolistparagraph">
<span lang="EN-US">Welcome/Agenda Review/SOI Updates</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940gmail-m3570562108390612455gmail-m-6948882102649180358gmail-m4313396889057425669msolistparagraph">
<span lang="EN-US">Closure of Discussion on Languages/Translations (see attached document summarizing proposals that have been discussed on recent calls)</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940gmail-m3570562108390612455gmail-m-6948882102649180358gmail-m4313396889057425669msolistparagraph">
<span lang="EN-US">Closure of Discussion on Non-AGB Terms</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940gmail-m3570562108390612455gmail-m-6948882102649180358gmail-m4313396889057425669msolistparagraph">
<span lang="EN-US">Closure of Discussion on Changes to String Contention Resolution</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940gmail-m3570562108390612455gmail-m-6948882102649180358gmail-m4313396889057425669msolistparagraph">
<span lang="EN-US">Final review of public comments - Proposals 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 37</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
<p class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940gmail-m3570562108390612455gmail-m-6948882102649180358gmail-m4313396889057425669msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:54pt">
<u></u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Please see the public comment summary document beginning on page 32: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1rsyxCEBd6ax3Rb-5Fw1kms-5FE9n29XL1-5Flw3Yp9XQ4TeCY_edit-3Fts-3D5ce64d6d&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=3BiY73bJkVd7CaVAsXrCwy6qPoNUAqdL-VMeZv9TdC4&s=JEegQK-bnMq7iB_tV6AxicCqF3GwM-h0bXIWCEMINpo&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rsyxCEBd6ax3Rb_w1kms_E9n29XL1_lw3Yp9XQ4TeCY/edit?ts=5ce64d6d#
[docs.google.com]</span></a>.</span><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940gmail-m3570562108390612455gmail-m-6948882102649180358gmail-m4313396889057425669msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:54pt;background:rgb(252,252,252)">
<u></u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:black"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">For reference, full text of comments is available at: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spreadsheets_d_1WKSC-5FpPBviCnbHxW171ZIp4CzuhQXRCV1NR2ruagrxs_edit-23gid-3D543808477&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=3BiY73bJkVd7CaVAsXrCwy6qPoNUAqdL-VMeZv9TdC4&s=y5q5Vv5ZFLioDRFYnTxSgnZn6UYnqs9lQvfGjC8BXn4&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WKSC_pPBviCnbHxW171ZIp4CzuhQXRCV1NR2ruagrxs/edit#gid=543808477
[docs.google.com]</span></a></span><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ol start="6" type="1">
<li class="gmail-m_-3499801964852525940gmail-m3570562108390612455gmail-m-6948882102649180358gmail-m4313396889057425669msolistparagraph" style="color:black;background:rgb(252,252,252)">
<span lang="EN-US">AOB</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind regards,</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Emily</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">Emily Barabas
</span></b><span lang="EN-US">| Policy Manager</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">ICANN</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> | Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Email:
<a href="mailto:emily.barabas@icann.org" target="_blank">emily.barabas@icann.org</a> | Phone: +31 (0)6 84507976</span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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