<div><div dir="auto">I’m familiar with the entities known as the Noncommercial Stakeholder Group and the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and I’m reasonably confident Kathy can speak to their views, particularly since EFF is a member of the NCSG (but perhaps not of this WG, or if so, not particularly active).</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I’m not familiar with any entity known as the Public Interest Community. Indeed I’m pretty sure there is no such monolithic entity. I’m not even quite sure what the phrase refers, but to the extent I understand it, it is a diverse group of entities that does not speak with one voice or a single perspective.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I doubt we can ascribe a single position to the “public interest community.”  To the extent we try, it makes no sense to lump it in with NCSG and EFF (and I look skeptically on any attempt to do so). Indeed, I would expect At Large to have a firmer grasp on this group of entities than NCSG — particularly since I believe the public interest community (as I try to understand it) looks primarily to the interests of individual internet users, as does At Large.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Greg</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 6:41 PM Kathy Kleiman <<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>All,</p>
    <p>Mandatory PICS are unchanging. You can't resolve an Objection
      with a Mandatory PIC. It would require a Voluntary PIC -- which
      has become a misnomer, and a complete garbage can of everything
      applicants wanted to throw into the kitchen sink. There are
      longstanding objections to "voluntary PICs" from the Noncommercial
      Stakeholder Group, Electronic Frontier Foundation and the Public
      Interest Community (as we discussed many times). There is no
      high-level agreement on including them -- and they were not part
      of the Round 1 rules. </p>
    <p>We agreed in last week's call that you could *amend the
      application* to settle an Objection.  That puts the private
      Objection settlement out for fuller and fairer review -- which is
      fair.  Changes to public portion of applications would be subject
      to public comment -- and hopefully notification to all who have
      filed comments and therefore are likely interested in following
      changes to that application.  Publication and public notice on
      significant changes to applications (with public comment) to
      settle an Objection <b>was </b>done in Round 1. <br>
    </p>
    <p>But there was no question that there is a <u>high level
        Disagreement </u><u>to settling disputes with changes to PICs
        --  because mandatory PICs are fixed and unchanging.   </u>This
      high level Disagreement was raised in every Objections call until
      last night. <i>Surely we are not saying that if you miss one
        discussion in the dead of night, you have waived all previous
        objections?  </i><br>
    </p>
    <p>I'm assuming GAC objections were the topic at issue here -- and
      can settled with changes to the application itself. <b> </b>Many,
      many changes to public portions of applications were made in
      response to the GAC in Round 1.  <i><br>
      </i></p>
    <p>Best,  Kathy</p>
    <p>Kathryn Kleiman, American University Washington College of Law</p></div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div>On 9/26/2019 6:13 PM, Aikman-Scalese,
      Anne wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      
      
      
      
      <img src="cid:16d853c3d721bff92041" style="width:31px;max-width:100%">
      <div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-312248627501402405__GoBack"></a>Regarding
          the last call and the possible high level agreement on
          resolving Objection proceedings with mandatory PICs, it’s
          important to note that there is no private right of action to
          enforce a PIC.  The current PIC Dispute Resolution procedure –
          PICDRP (see attached) provides for various steps to be taken
          in resolving the PIC complaint and if unresolved, ICANN  at
          its SOLE discrestion, can invoke a a Staning Panel or
          undertake a compliance investigation.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">So the points I am raising here are:<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">(1) Proceeding on the report of a PIC
          violation rests in the sole discretion of ICANN<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">(2) The expense of the Compliance
          investigation and/or Standing Panel is an expense of ICANN.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Accordingly, it may be appropriate to
          consider adopting a private right of action (rather than
          forcing the expense on ICANN) in connection with the
          enforcement of mandatory PICs adopted for purposes of
          resolving an Objection proceeding.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">In fact, the PICDRP originally contained a
          provision allowing the enforcement issue to be taken to a
          third party provider.  However, that draft did not survive.<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Anne<u></u><u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
        <table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
          <tbody>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#af272f">Anne
                      E. Aikman-Scalese</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">Of
                    Counsel</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">520.629.4428
                    office</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">520.879.4725
                    fax</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com" title="Email User" target="_blank"><span style="color:#af272f">AAikman@lrrc.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">_____________________________</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><img src="cid:16d853c3d72a2d7fd182" border="0" style="width:115px;max-width:100%"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">Lewis
                    Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">One
                    South Church Avenue, Suite 2000</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">Tucson,
                    Arizona 85701-1611</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://lrrc.com/" title="Lewis
                      Roca Rothgerber Christie Webpage" target="_blank"><span style="color:#af272f">lrrc.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:2.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><img src="cid:16d853c3d72a677c7153" border="0" style="width:120px;max-width:100%"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:2.0pt;line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">Because
                    what matters</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top">
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:105%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#323232">to
                    you, matters to us.™</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:105%;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
            <tr>
              <td style="width:3.5in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="336" valign="top"><br>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <hr>
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