<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>Alexander,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It's very unlikely that the GNSO Council will initiate a PDP just to reach the same lack of outcome we reached. </div><div class="">And if the Council doesn't realise that, the same outcome is still very likely to happen in a new PDP. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It's hopeless to repeat the same process and expect a different outcome. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Rubens</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 11 Jul 2020, at 17:35, Alexander Schubert <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin" class="">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class=""><div class="">
<div class="">Kathy, Paul,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In the 2007 gNSO PDP the issue of "closed generics" has not been defined; but was left open. Accordingly the 2012 AGB was reflecting this policy vacuum; which forced the board to intervene.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">After the 2012 application round the Board gave clear instructions to the gNSO to develop new policy advice. A mini-micro "2006/2007"-style PDP: just for the very narrow aspect of "closed generics".</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We are right now exercising the "2012-AGB revision process"; it is authorized to revise the 2012 AGB; it is bound in this exercise by the 2007 PDP. This current forum has explicitly stated that it will abstain from leaving the 2007 policy advise picket fence.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As a result this current forum is not authorized to create new policy advice.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I guess we all hoped that somehow we all agree to a solution - then implement it; and hence avoid a formal (partial) new PDP.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It seems we have now reached agreement within this forum that this 2012-AGB-revision will not come up with a solution.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That's not a problem at all.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The board didn't require this forum to solve the problem. It instructed the gNSO to engage in a policy development process leading to new policy advice (in regard to the issue of "closed generics").</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So I suggest we stop wasting precious time: The gNSO has only about 1 year left to create new policy advice regarding the simple question: how shall closed generics be treated. We here are out of depth and need to let this go.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The NGPC specifically required the gNSO:</div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;" class=""><div dir="auto" class=""> "<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">A Policy Development Process with respect to operating exclusive generic strings in the 'public interest' should be undertaken by the community. Policy issues on 'closed generic' TLDs should be resolved through the multistakeholder process."</span></div></blockquote><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">This group here does not have the mandate to conduct a PDP that results in policy advice. We have concluded that we can provide no help, draft or suggestions. So let's simply throw the issue of "closed generics" into a tiny black box: "This working group could not resolve the issues around 'closed generics' and will therefore make no suggestions to their treatment. The gNSO will engage in a PDP - and upon their policy advice a final regulation will be implemented at such time it is available."</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">Closed generics aren't regulated now. So there is nothing for us to say about it. We can continue our 2012 AGB review (leaving closed generics in the black box) - and once the formal PDP creates a solution for closed generics: we add it afterwards. </span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">So these are the steps the gNSO (not this group here) will have to initiate:</span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">"</span><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class="">The rules for the revised GNSO PDP are outlined in</span><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class=""> </span><a href="http://www.icann.org/en/about/governance/bylaws#AnnexA" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">Annex A of the ICANN Bylaws</a><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class=""> </span><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class="">and the</span><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class=""> </span><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/council/annex-2-pdp-manual-16dec11-en.pdf" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">PDP Manual</a><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class="">. In addition, the graphics shown below have been developed to facilitate understanding of the</span><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class=""> </span><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/basics/consensus-policy/pdp#general" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">different steps</a><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class=""> </span><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(121, 114, 108); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;" class="">of the PDP which include:</span></div><ul style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 10px 0px; padding-left: 15px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><li style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(121, 114, 108); margin: 0px 0px 6px 10px;" class=""><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/basics/consensus-policy/pdp#Identification" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">Issue Identification</a></li><li style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(121, 114, 108); margin: 0px 0px 6px 10px;" class=""><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/basics/consensus-policy/pdp#Scoping" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">Issue Scoping</a> <em style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">(What is the issue?)</em></li><li style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(121, 114, 108); margin: 0px 0px 6px 10px;" class=""><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/basics/consensus-policy/pdp#Initiation" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">Initiation</a> <em style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">(Moving ahead with a PDP or not?)</em></li><li style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(121, 114, 108); margin: 0px 0px 6px 10px;" class=""><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/basics/consensus-policy/pdp#WG" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">Working Group</a> <em style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">(Exploring the issue in depth and developing recommendations)</em></li><li style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(121, 114, 108); margin: 0px 0px 6px 10px;" class=""><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/basics/consensus-policy/pdp#Council" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">Council Deliberation</a> <em style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">(Assess / affirm WG recommendations)</em></li><li style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(121, 114, 108); margin: 0px 0px 6px 10px;" class=""><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/basics/consensus-policy/pdp#Board" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">Board Vote</a> <em style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">(Final approval)</em></li><li style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(121, 114, 108); margin: 0px 0px 6px 10px;" class=""><a href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/basics/consensus-policy/pdp#Implementation" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(13, 56, 91); text-decoration-line: none;" class="">Implementation</a>"</li></ul><div class=""><font color="#79726c" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 12px;" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#131313" class="">Can we get this done within 3 month? The benefit of a new (very narrow defined) PDP: there is no "fallback solution". We are forced to create a compromise. It's completely seperate from our scope & group here.</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#131313" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#131313" class="">Who can initiate a PDP? Could ALAC do that? Is someone from ALAC reading this? </font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#131313" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#131313" class="">Thanks,</font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#131313" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#131313" class="">Alexander</font></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;" class=""><font size="2" color="#131313" class=""><br class=""></font></span></div><div class=""><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;" class=""><font size="2" color="#131313" class=""><br class=""></font></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div id="composer_signature" class=""><div style="font-size:88%;color:#364f67" dir="auto" class="">Sent from my Samsung device</div></div><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">-------- Original message --------<br class="">From: Kathy Kleiman <<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" class="">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>> <br class="">Date: 7/11/20 18:46 (GMT+02:00) <br class="">To: "McGrady Paul D." <<a href="mailto:PMcGrady@taftlaw.com" class="">PMcGrady@taftlaw.com</a>>, Rubens Kuhl <<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" class="">rubensk@nic.br</a>>, Marc Trachtenberg via Gnso-newgtld-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org</a>> <br class="">Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Latest Version of Compromise Closed Generic Text <br class=""><br class="">Trust me, I understand the frustration. Perhaps more than anyone.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But we do not get to make up our own facts. The Board has acted, and the GAC has acted. We must operate within those constraints. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best, Kathy <br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote class=""><br class="">----- Original Message -----<br class=""><div style="width:100%;background:rgb(228,228,228);" class=""><div style="font-weight:bold;" class="">From:</div> "McGrady Paul D." <<a href="mailto:PMcGrady@taftlaw.com" class="">PMcGrady@taftlaw.com</a>></div><br class=""><div style="font-weight:bold;" class="">To:</div>"Rubens Kuhl" <<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" class="">rubensk@nic.br</a>>, "Marc Trachtenberg via Gnso-newgtld-wg" <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org</a>><br class=""><div style="font-weight:bold;" class="">Cc:</div><br class=""><div style="font-weight:bold;" class="">Sent:</div>Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:18:37 +0000<br class=""><div style="font-weight:bold;" class="">Subject:</div>Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Latest Version of Compromise Closed Generic Text<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" class="">+1 Rubens. We can’t substitute the facts as they are with Kathy’s view of how they should be.
</span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" class="">I too am disappointed that this WG did not reach agreement on an improvement to the status quo as the Board asked us to. Some of us tried by introducing thoughts on what a so-called closed generic in the public
interest would look like. But, those ideas didn’t stick. Our failure to come to an agreement doesn’t make the fact that we didn’t, somehow, “inaccurate.” What happened, happened, and editorializing about what that means is just another way of trying to
get an individual view of what the status quo is adopted by this group. We have been over and over and over this and I, very kindly and respectfully, resist this latest attempt.</span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" class="">Best,</span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="" class="">Paul</span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span style="" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in 0in;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> Gnso-newgtld-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="">gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Rubens Kuhl<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Friday, July 10, 2020 3:39 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Marc Trachtenberg via Gnso-newgtld-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Latest Version of Compromise Closed Generic Text</span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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</div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On 10 Jul 2020, at 17:15, Kathy Kleiman <<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" class="">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>> wrote:</p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class="">Hi Jeff,</span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class="">I'm sorry, but the language below is not accurate, and it must be. There is no way this group can agree to allow Closed
Generics outside the public interest framework required by the GAC in its Advice. Further, absent our agreement (and the GNSO’s approval), we have not meet the requirements of the Board's resolution on Closed Generics, and the bar does not simply "time out."</span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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<div class=""><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">The group haven't agreed on anything, so... </p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class=""><br class=""></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;" class="">
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<div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class="">I offer the language below as a substitution -- to accurately reflect the two “Closed Generic” policy requirements before
this WG and the GNSO -- the 2015 Board Resolution AND the GAC Advice. </span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div><div class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class="">No Agreement</span></u><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class="">: The Working Group was unable to
come to agreement on a policy that meets the GAC Advice requirements for “exclusive registry access for generic strings serving a public interest goal.” In keeping with the requirements of the 2015 Board resolution, as clarified in the Rationale, the GNSO
must “inform the Board on a regular basis with regards to the progress on the issue.” It has not done so. </span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div><div class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;">
<i class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class="">“The NGPC [ICANN Board New gTLD Program Committee] is also requesting that the GNSO specifically include the issue of exclusive registry access for generic strings serving a public interest goal
as part of the policy work it is planning to initiate on subsequent rounds of the New gTLD Program, and inform the Board on a regular basis with regards to the progress on the issue. The President and CEO should provide the GNSO with information needed to
support this request.” </span></i><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""><a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-21-en" class="">https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-new-gtld-2015-06-21-en</a></span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:'Helvetica Neue';" class="">Accordingly, in the absence of agreement by the Working Group on any new policy consistent with the GAC advice on public interest goals, the status quo is that Closed Generics would
not be allowed in subsequent rounds in line the Board’s resolution. The GNSO has not formulated or approved a policy in accordance with the Board’s wishes, as stated in the Rationale, and has not reported any progress to the Board, as requested in the Rationale.
Therefore, the Board’s resolution holds until such a policy is formulated and formally approved by the GNSO. </span></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">It's already known that we can't agree on what the status quo is, so retrying it one way or the other doesn't cut it. </p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Rubens</p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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