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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Dear WG,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The board requested the GNSO 5 years ago to create policy advice (recommendations) pertaining closed generics – so that the board would not have to intervene again in the next round(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>We can’t simply completely ignore the board’s request and instead just reiterate their comments in our report. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The 2007/2008 PDP failed to create policy advice/recommendations in regard to closed generics. The reason was that no immediate consensus could be established back then – and obviously nobody thought the issue of closed generics would ever create big headaches.<br><br>After the 2012 round we are much wiser: We now know that closed generics are a very troublesome occurrence. The board clearly instructed us to go back to the drawing board. It was very troublesome for the GAC. Troublesome for the board. Especially troublesome for the applicants. To not provide these stakeholders with clear advice is cruel.<br><br>Since 2007 13 years went by. To my understanding domains are being used in commerce since only 1994 (before 1994 commercial use of the Internet was not legitimized; at least in the U.S.). That’s 26 years of legal, commercial use of the DNS – and half of that time is 13 years. So arguably 13 years is an extremely long period of time in regards of commercial DNS issues: the community’s priorities have changed in the meantime. Just because 13 years ago we agreed to not solve the problem doesn’t mean we can still avoid solving the issue at hand.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Policy advice / recommendations aren’t decided by a handful of individuals. Working groups aren’t deciding the fate of the DNS. We can discuss the matter and plot policy drafts. But ultimately it is the Internet Community which needs to decide. It seems we have two camps: one that supports a “everything goes approach”. The other camp wants to remain in the boundaries of the public interest.<br><br><b>So in a first iteration we might simply clarify this underlying policy boundary:<o:p></o:p></b></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Is ICANN and the new gTLD process bound to serve the public interest – and should by extension closed generics bound to serve the public interest?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>It’s a straight forward yes or no question. Both camps may make their claims – and then we let the Community decide. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Either the community will decide that public interest is not a guiding principle in the realm of the extension of the DNS.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Or it will decide that the extension of the DNS will have to follow the principle of public interest: and that includes closed generics.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>That’s not ours (this WG) to decide. We can make our cases – the Community has to decide. How long does that take? 4 weeks? 3 month? Let’s start today! We can lay out the cases within a week (everything has been said 100 times). Then we ask for feedback from the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Once we have clarified that central question we can then on the basis of the result make our final claims: Each camp lays out how they envision a possible introduction of closed generics in the next rounds. We then again let the community decide.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>But this won’t work without clarifying the basic question whether the introduction of new gTLDs have to be in the public interest.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Alexander<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com [mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 13, 2020 2:20 AM<br><b>To:</b> alexander@schubert.berlin<br><b>Cc:</b> gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Latest Version of Compromise Closed Generic Text<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The bottom line at this point is that the only reason to include anything other than what the Board actually resolved is to add commentary supporting a particular point of view on whether closed generics should be allowed and if so, when. The only thing we can agree upon is that we can't agree. So let the Board speak for itself and people who read the report can interpret it as they will. <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Marc H.Trachtenberg</b> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Shareholder<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Greenberg Traurig, LLP<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>77 West Wacker Drive<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chicago, IL 60601<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Office (312) 456-1020<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mobile (773) 677-3305<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Jul 12, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Alexander Schubert <<a href="mailto:alexander@schubert.berlin">alexander@schubert.berlin</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='color:#0E0E3F'>*EXTERNAL TO GT*</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Jeff,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Let me start by highlighting your good stewardship in this group. I am amazed how you lead us - and how you orbit around all aspects of this PDP. Very good job.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regarding the ".disaster" example:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That's the problem with examples; they initially make sense - but when diving into details: they might turn out not so good. In the case of the Red Cross applying for any generic term based new gTLD: just because their work is so extraordinary humanitarian doesn't mean any potential generic gTLD is deemed to be worthy to be taken by them. So when people poked holes in this example then less as to prove no example can be given - but more to prevent having an insufficient example in our WG report.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alexander <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id="composer_signature"><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;color:#364F67'>Sent from my Samsung device<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Jeff Neuman <<a href="mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com">jeff@jjnsolutions.com</a>> <br>Date: 7/12/20 18:36 (GMT+02:00) <br>To: George Sadowsky <<a href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>> <br>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org</a> <br>Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Latest Version of Compromise Closed Generic Text <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks George for keeping the dialogue going and I think this is very helpful.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So, I presented an example before (and in) the initial report that I came up with. The example was an application for .disaster by the International Red Cross. The application (made up by me) was to have second level names given to specific disasters to serve as the official Red Cross fund raiser for these events. Examples include HurricaineMaria.disaster, covid19VA.disaster, covid19UK.disaster, etc. Users would know that if they went to these sites and donated, that the money would actually be going to the official Red Cross and to official sources. The goal would be to drastically reduce the amount of fraud to end users from fake fundraising campaigns.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Those that opposed closed generics did not agree that this would be good enough. They argued that generic words should be open to all “competitors” and why should the Red Cross monopolize a word/string. They come from the very traditional view that second level domains should be available to all (with restrictions). It is a view of end users being the registrants of domains as opposed to end users being those that use the Internet in general. Opponents argued “why couldn’t they just apply for .redcross” or “why cant they just make it open”? So essentially it became a debate about words and generic ness and who has a right to them as opposed to looking at the application itself to see if it served a public interest goal. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>When it became apparent that even in this humanitarian extreme example that members of the working group were unwilling to consider the application that we decided to end the discussion because it was clear that no example would satisfy the “serving a public interest goal” to members of the group. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I hope that helps explain a little bit more how we got here and that we have indeed tried to discuss some examples. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Get <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/o0ukef__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!VFYmMUj6rLqzvQYxqjU02Kinys6WMsx-qvncEa1LBXK4V3G66AraAqvp5U1t0bOOWF0$">Outlook for iOS</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></div><div id=divRplyFwdMsg><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> George Sadowsky <<a href="mailto:george.sadowsky@gmail.com">george.sadowsky@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 12, 2020 9:35:12 AM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff Neuman <<a href="mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com">jeff@jjnsolutions.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Kleiman Kathy <<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org</a> <<a href="mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org">gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Latest Version of Compromise Closed Generic Text</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks, Jeff, for a thorough and and balanced response. I have several comments and suggestions, interspersed in the text below.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 11, 2020, at 11:50 PM, Jeff Neuman <<a href="mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com">jeff@jjnsolutions.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks George. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This is helpful, but I am not sure that any part of the Board resolution or rationale necessarily supports the notion that the default position be an outright ban. In reading the resolution and rationale again, one could read that as meaning that the board was not looking to ban closed generics altogether, but was looking for guidance as to how applications for closed generics could be evaluated as “serving a public interest goal.”<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Gnso-newgtld-wg mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org">Gnso-newgtld-wg@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!VFYmMUj6rLqzvQYxqjU02Kinys6WMsx-qvncEa1LBXK4V3G66AraAqvp5U1tDn1BScM$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-wg__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!VFYmMUj6rLqzvQYxqjU02Kinys6WMsx-qvncEa1LBXK4V3G66AraAqvp5U1tDn1BScM$</a> <br>_______________________________________________<br>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/privacy/policy__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!VFYmMUj6rLqzvQYxqjU02Kinys6WMsx-qvncEa1LBXK4V3G66AraAqvp5U1t79nX2yM$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!VFYmMUj6rLqzvQYxqjU02Kinys6WMsx-qvncEa1LBXK4V3G66AraAqvp5U1t79nX2yM$</a> ) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/privacy/tos__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!VFYmMUj6rLqzvQYxqjU02Kinys6WMsx-qvncEa1LBXK4V3G66AraAqvp5U1t5yO8t_M$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!VFYmMUj6rLqzvQYxqjU02Kinys6WMsx-qvncEa1LBXK4V3G66AraAqvp5U1t5yO8t_M$</a> ). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal>If you are not an intended recipient of confidential and privileged information in this email, please delete it, notify us immediately at <a href="mailto:postmaster@gtlaw.com">postmaster@gtlaw.com</a>, and do not use or disseminate the information.<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>