[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability

Stephanie Perrin stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Mon Aug 18 20:41:39 UTC 2014 

I think there are four of us EWGers on this group....me, Susan, Carlton 
and Michele.  Sorry if I missed anyone.
I believe the recommendations that went into the EWG ought not to be 
taken as gospel, after all many of the privacy features that make them 
potentially acceptable are far from implemented.  It is also far from 
clear what would be in the RDS record,  and how public "public" is.  If 
all law firms got everything they wanted for a legal process behind the 
so-called gate, this discussion we are having would be moot, according 
to my reading of the text at least.
Susan is the principle author of those proxy recommendations and 
therefore is the authority.
Cheers Stephanie
On 14-08-18 2:52 PM, Don Blumenthal wrote:
> I should have read everything in the thread before responding. I see 
> your point, Volker. However, I would be more inclined to agree if we 
> were looking at something that it's reasonable to expect will happen. 
> Not to insult any of our dual PPSAI/EWG members, but I don't think 
> that can be said about any of the EWG recommendations now. It's too 
> early in its review process.
>
> As I said before, our work is complicated enough as it is. I suggest 
> dealing with the world we have now allowing for reasonably certain new 
> developments. Don't ask me what they might be.
>
> Don
>
> From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net 
> <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
> Date: Monday, August 18, 2014 at 2:28 PM
> To: Steven Metalitz <met at msk.com <mailto:met at msk.com>>, Valeriya 
> Sherman <VSherman at sgbdc.com <mailto:VSherman at sgbdc.com>>, "Williams, 
> Todd" <Todd.Williams at turner.com <mailto:Todd.Williams at turner.com>>, 
> PPSAI <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability
>
> Hi Steven,
>
> I disagree, because I am a strong believer in "building for the 
> future". I would hope that we can come up with policy recommendations 
> that will not be made obsolete in a few years time but rather form a 
> basis for future considerations. Therefore suggesting policy that 
> would work with already proposed future regimes is not only helpful, 
> but rather strongly advisable.
>
> I also see a very concrete harm in being required to receive 
> unsolicited communications that are like spam to me. Having to claer 
> out spam and unsolicited communications ot of my personal work mailbox 
> takes at least ten minutes out of each workday and that is after the 
> spam-filters have worked their magic. I therefore understand anyone 
> who desired that unwanted communications should be kept to a minimum.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
>
> Am 18.08.2014 20:21, schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
>>
>> Our job is to recommend accreditation standards for today's world, 
>> not for what may be the case if/when EWG recommendations are 
>> implemented.
>>
>> The "harm" inflicted by having something appear in one's mailbox 
>> needs to be kept in context.
>>
>> *From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net]
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 18, 2014 2:16 PM
>> *To:* Metalitz, Steven; Valeriya Sherman; Williams, Todd; 
>> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> this is currently the case, but I believe one of the suggestions of 
>> the EWG was that the country of the registrants residency be a field 
>> that is always published.
>>
>> An I maybe misphrased the "required to read". I meant it to mean "to 
>> have appear in his mailbox".
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 18.08.2014 20:05, schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
>>
>>     By definition, the jurisdiction of the registrant (p/p service
>>     customer)  is generally unknown to the third party at the time
>>     the relay request for the legal claim is made.
>>
>>     A registrant is definitely better off knowing about a "foreign"
>>     legal claim.  That is a separate question from whether a foreign
>>     court can claim jurisdiction over the registrant for that claim
>>     -- which is often a very complicated question that is by no means
>>     limited to where the registrant is physically present.
>>
>>     Finally, please, no one is "required to read" anything that is
>>     relayed to them.    I think that is common ground that was
>>     established much earlier in our discussion.
>>
>>     *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>     <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>     [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of
>>     *Volker Greimann
>>     *Sent:* Monday, August 18, 2014 1:15 PM
>>     *To:* Valeriya Sherman; Williams, Todd;
>>     gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability
>>
>>     Hi Valeriya,
>>
>>     just as a counterpoint, I do not believe it should be "any
>>     jurisdiction".
>>     I would accept jurisdiction of the registrant, the service
>>     provider and (if affiliated) the registrar, but thats where it
>>     stops. Why should a registrant based in Dubai be required to be
>>     bothered by a US legal instrument that is not legally binding on
>>     him? Why should a US registrant be required to read a Saudi legal
>>     complaint?
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Volker
>>
>>
>>     Am 18.08.2014 19:03, schrieb Valeriya Sherman:
>>
>>         Hi Volker,
>>
>>         A "legal communication" is certainly something we would have
>>         to carefully define as a group, but as a starting point, I
>>         would define it as any communication by an individual or
>>         entity that asserts a problem connected to the ownership
>>         or use of a domain name by the beneficial registrant based on
>>         _and_ citing the laws of any jurisdiction. The communication
>>         need not threaten a lawsuit, or be made by a law firm to
>>         constitute a "legal communication."  The
>>         communication would be submitted via the accepted,
>>         to-be-determined means of communication.
>>
>>         Best,
>>
>>         Val
>>
>>         Valeriya Sherman
>>         Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, L.L.P.
>>         1101 30th Street, N.W.
>>         Suite 120
>>         Washington, D.C. 20007
>>         Tel 202.944.3300
>>         Cell 303.589.7477
>>         vsherman at sgbdc.com <mailto:vsherman at law.gwu.edu>
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         *From:*Volker Greimann [vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>         <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>]
>>         *Sent:* Monday, August 18, 2014 10:08 AM
>>         *To:* Valeriya Sherman; Williams, Todd;
>>         gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability
>>
>>         Hi Valeriya,
>>
>>         Another narrower approach would be to ensure that
>>         _all_ communications that contain legal complaints are
>>         relayed without exception. To be clear, under this approach,
>>         there would be no content evaluation, other than to determine
>>         that any given communication is or contains a legal complaint.
>>
>>         What is a legal communication though? Does it have to include
>>         a threat of a law suit? Does it have to include formal legal
>>         representation by a law firm?
>>         Also, this should be limited to the means of communication
>>         offered by the service provider, i.e. if postal relay is not
>>         offered, legal communications by postal mail would face the
>>         same fate as spam, i.e. the bin...
>>
>>         Best,
>>
>>         volker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>
>>     Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Volker A. Greimann
>>
>>     - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Key-Systems GmbH
>>
>>     Im Oberen Werk 1
>>
>>     66386 St. Ingbert
>>
>>     Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>>
>>     Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>>
>>     Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net  <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Web:www.key-systems.net  <http://www.key-systems.net>  /www.RRPproxy.net  <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>>
>>     www.domaindiscount24.com  <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /www.BrandShelter.com  <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
>>
>>     www.facebook.com/KeySystems  <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
>>
>>     www.twitter.com/key_systems  <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>>
>>     Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>>
>>     Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>
>>     www.keydrive.lu  <http://www.keydrive.lu>  
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>
>>       
>>
>>     --------------------------------------------
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Best regards,
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Volker A. Greimann
>>
>>     - legal department -
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Key-Systems GmbH
>>
>>     Im Oberen Werk 1
>>
>>     66386 St. Ingbert
>>
>>     Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>>
>>     Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>>
>>     Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net  <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Web:www.key-systems.net  <http://www.key-systems.net>  /www.RRPproxy.net  <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>>
>>     www.domaindiscount24.com  <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /www.BrandShelter.com  <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>>
>>     www.facebook.com/KeySystems  <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
>>
>>     www.twitter.com/key_systems  <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>>
>>       
>>
>>     CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>>
>>     Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>>
>>     V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>
>>       
>>
>>     Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>
>>     www.keydrive.lu  <http://www.keydrive.lu>  
>>
>>       
>>
>>     This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>
>>       
>>
>>       
>>
>>       
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>   
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>   
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>   
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net  <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>   
>> Web:www.key-systems.net  <http://www.key-systems.net>  /www.RRPproxy.net  <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>> www.domaindiscount24.com  <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /www.BrandShelter.com  <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>   
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems  <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems  <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>>   
>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>   
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu  <http://www.keydrive.lu>  
>>   
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>   
>> --------------------------------------------
>>   
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>   
>> Best regards,
>>   
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>   
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net  <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>   
>> Web:www.key-systems.net  <http://www.key-systems.net>  /www.RRPproxy.net  <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>> www.domaindiscount24.com  <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /www.BrandShelter.com  <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>   
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems  <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems  <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>>   
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>   
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu  <http://www.keydrive.lu>  
>>   
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>   
>>   
>>   
>
> -- 
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web:www.key-systems.net  /www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com  /www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu  
>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web:www.key-systems.net  /www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com  /www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu  
>
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/attachments/20140818/c1680cb9/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list