[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 26 August 2014 at 1400 UTC

Terri Agnew terri.agnew at icann.org
Tue Aug 26 17:26:27 UTC 2014

Dear All,


Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 26 August 2014 at 14:00 UTC at:


 <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140826-en.mp3> http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140826-en.mp3


On page: 

 <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:

 <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/



Steve Metalitz - IPC

Graeme Bunton – RrSG

Val Sherman – IPC

Griffin Barnett – IPC

Tatiana Khramtsova – RrSG

Frank Michlick – Individual

Volker Greimann-RrSG

Don Blumenthal – RySG

David Heasley-IPC

Jim Bikoff-IPC

James Bladel - RrSG

Michele Neylon – RrSG

Alex Deacon – IPC

Chris Pelling – RrSG

Stephanie Perrin – NCSG

Tobias Sattler – RrSG

Todd Williams – IPC

Kathy Kleiman – NCSG

Phil Corwin – BC

Justin Macy - BC

Lindsay Hamilton-Reid – RrSG

Susan Kawaguchi – BC

Kristina Rosette – IPC

Darcy Southwell – RrSG

Amr Elsadr – NCUC

Paul McGrady – IPC

Libby Baney – BC

Phil Marano – IPC


Apologies :

Holly Raiche – ALAC

Sarah Wyld - RrSG


ICANN staff:

Mary Wong

Marika Konings

Amy Bivins

Danielle Andela

Terri Agnew


** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **


Mailing list archives:

 <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/


Wiki page:

 <https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg> https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg


Thank you.

Kind regards,





 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 26 August 2014:

   Terri Agnew 2:Dear all, welcome to the PPSAI call on the 26th August 2014

  Tobias Sattler:Hi

  Stephanie Perrin:HI everybody!

  Graeme Bunton:G'morning Stephanie

  Kristina Rosette:Hi everyone.  I'll likely be on mute for most of the call.

  Don Blumenthal:I hope that everyone will be except when speaking. :)

  Stephanie Perrin:Good morning Graeme, how is my fav Canadian registrar doing?  

  Graeme Bunton:Just fine, thanks.   You should come visit!

  Chris Pelling:afternoon all 

  Michele Neylon:facilitator?

  Terri Agnew:Amr Elsadr and Kathy Kleiman has joined

  Terri Agnew:James Bladel has now joined

  Michele Neylon:we speak the good English we do

  Kristina Rosette:I've clearly missed this.  Why a facilitator?  

  Mary Wong:There will therefore be two facilitators - one from Incite (who some of you may have worked with as they are doing the ICANN Academy facilitation training) and Thomas, our "community facilitator", who will assist.

  Marika Konings:Thanks for those of you who already confirmed their participation. If there are others that have not done so yet, but are planning to participate in person or remotely, please let staff know off-list so we can take a a head-count

  Stephanie Perrin:what is the date again?

  Kristina Rosette:My question can be answered later, offline

  Marika Konings:Friday 10 October

  Terri Agnew:Don we are unable to hear you

  Don Blumenthal:OK. I'll experiment

  Mary Wong:@Kristina, the idea for the F2F all-day session is part of the FY15 pilot project approved by the GNSO Council - to select a current GNSO WG that's at a stage of its work and as such can benefit from a F2F session assisted by facilitators.

  Terri Agnew:Paul McGrady has joined

  Marika Konings:To add, this follows from GNSO Council discussions as well as ATRT2 recommendations

  Mary Wong:In London the Council agreed that our WG - since we're aiming for an Initial Report in early 2015 - would be a good choice for the pilot.

  Paul McGrady:Good morning all.  Sorry to be tardy.

  Terri Agnew:Val Sherman has joined

  Marika Konings:The idea is to explore whether facilitation as well as F2F time help PDP WGs in moving forward in their deliberations and what impact this potentially has on the overall timeline

  Kathy:Good questions

  Kathy:Hi All!

  Stephanie Perrin:@Mary and Marika, thanks for the reminders!

  Mary Wong:The proposed definitions are in the right hand side pod of your screen

  Terri Agnew:tatiana Khramtsova has joined

  Graeme Bunton:Agreed

  Kathy:Good definitions

  Kathy:person should mean individual, corporate, organizational

  Terri Agnew:David Heasley is on audio

  Kathy:@Mary/scribe:  I don't think legal entity/organizational is the same thing. They should and often are different.

  Bladel:"and lo, I looked upon the Revlataions in WHOIS..."

  Amr Elsadr:or "means revealing a person...,

  steve metalitz:"to reveal a" works 

  Kathy:not all organizations are incorporated, and many a collection of individuals

  Mary Wong:@James, per Kathy's comment, can you repeat your suggestion?

  Stephanie Perrin:so we should fix it...

  Kristina Rosette:Agree with Michele about  not changing the term.  Like Steve's suggested edit.

  Mary Wong:@Steve, @Kristina - does the current formulation in the pod now work?

  Bladel:@Mary:  "person, legal entity, or organization..."

  Bladel:someting like that.

  Stephanie Perrin:@michele so how about we define "reveal":  used in this context as a noun....etc

  Stephanie Perrin:I certainly like it better Steve!

  Graeme Bunton:I think so too, steve

  Kathy:I would like to recommend thalt we talk about publication after disclosure (the details, that is)

  Mary Wong:I've linked the word "Reveal" (capitalized) to the specific issue of Whois contact details - hope that helps

  Kathy:Tx Steve!

  Mary Wong:Note that in the charter questions for this category, in addition to a specific question about safeguards (Q4) there are also Qs for, e.g.: "7.           What specific alleged violations of the provider’s terms of service, if any, would be sufficient to trigger publication of the registrant/owner’s contact information?"

  Terri Agnew:Don is back on telephone

  Mary Wong:@Steve, yes we were - let us know if we should do that (the compilation is on Template E)

  Mary Wong:Apologies - Template E only has the provider responses for Relay; we will compile and add  for Reveal to Template F.

  Amr Elsadr:@James: Curious about the recent events leading to requiring the indication of a more formal process. :)

  Amr Elsadr:Thanks James.

  Bladel:@Amr - sure, let's catch up in LA. :)

  Terri Agnew:Libby Baney has joined audio

  Kathy:Hi Don, can address general issues now?  

  Kathy:Intro statements - so to speak?

  Kathy:That's where Steve was going...

  Bladel:that was me.  Don't want to be unfair to Steve. :)

  Don Blumenthal:Thanks, Kathy. I didn't hear Steve's question.

  Bladel:NOt sure how we/ICANN could effectively do that.

  Amr Elsadr:Not sure how limitations on 3d parties can be imposed at all.

  Marika Konings:We've updated the template with the information from the sample relating to reveal and will upload that now in Adobe Connect (and distribute following the call)

  Kathy:I like the idea of notifying the customer first ...

  Kathy:@Amr, we might seek to limit further access to that requestor... and there may be data protection law limitations as well

  Kathy:Steve et all: forgive the phrasing, but is "mere allegation" enough? 

  Amr Elsadr:@Kathy: Not sure what you mean by limited access. Can't contact information be copied down?

  steve metalitz:@Kathy, prima facie evidence 

  Bladel:"digital asylum."

  Terri Agnew:Phil Marano has joined

  Kathy:tx James!

  Kathy:Also, if we provide good guidance, most of the Requestors will probably honor the limitations...

  Bladel:As service providers, our first duty is to our businesses.  But we cetainly don't want to jeopardize anyone's (or the public's) safety.

  Bladel:@Michele - exactly.  Copyright of religious materials to squelch criticims.  Or building religions around racism/hate speech in an effort to call it "protected speech"

  Michele Neylon:James - we've had all sorts of fun

 Kathy:So are we moving towards an endorsement of p/p processes and due processes...? 

  Kathy:@Mary/scribes,  could we expand Notes to include Jusrisdiction/due process generally?

  Susan Kawaguchi:@ James do you have an idea on how often you would "nuke" the domain name? 

  Amr Elsadr:@Kathy: +1

  Justin Macy:@Michele and @James, but what if you are just a p/p provider and don't have authority of taking down a website? 

  Michele Neylon:Justin - the domain has to be with a registrars

  Michele Neylon:it cannot be registered magically

  Graeme Bunton:I don't think anything we'

  Justin Macy:Right, but if I'm a p/p provider I don't have to be affiliated with a registrar. Right?

  Michele Neylon:and the proxy / prviacy provider cannot pull a domain as easily as a registrar or registry

  Graeme Bunton:ve discussed prevents a service provider from acting on a violation of it's toS

  Kathy:+1 Volker 

  Amr Elsadr:@Volker: +1 on baselines. :)

  Kathy:@Volker: Interesting, it may a terms of service issue, not a Reveal issue...

  Mary Wong:@Kathy, @Volker, note this Q in Cat F to follow: "7.              What specific alleged violations of the provider’s terms of service, if any, would be sufficient to trigger publication of the registrant/owner’s contact information?"

  Paul McGrady:Sorry that my Internet connection keeps dropping

  Kathy:@Mary -- or takedown...

  Kathy:@James, digital asylum is a great term

  Don Blumenthal:Kathy, no matter how one might define "asylum."

  Alex Deacon:@James - +1 on following the 80/20 rule here.  


  Graeme Bunton:yep, good discussion everyone

  Bladel:"baseline" is good.  But we should pursue ideas liek "illegal activity" vs. speicifcally naming conduct, etc.

  Darcy Southwell:Thanks

  Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.




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