[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 17 June 2014 at 1400 UTC

Tue Jun 17 16:44:32 UTC 2014

Dear All,

Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 17 June 2014 at 14:00 UTC at:

 <http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140617-en.mp3> http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140617-en.mp3

On page: 

 <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#june> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#june

The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:

 <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/

Attendees: 

Steve Metalitz - IPC

Justin Macy – BC

Sarah Wyld - RrSG

Chris Pelling – RrSG

Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP

Darcy Southwell - RrSG

Graeme Bunton – RrSG

Don Blumenthal – RySG

Phil Marano – IPC

Susan Prosser- RrSG

Val Sherman – IPC

Tim Ruiz – RrSG

Griffin Barnett – IPC

Tatiana Khramtsova – RrSG

Libby Baney – BC

Susan Kawguchi – BC

Volker Greimann – RrSG

Kathy Kleiman – NCUC

Holly Raiche – ALAC

Alex Deacon – IPC

Tobias Sattler – RrSG

Todd Williams – IPC

Luc Seufer – RrSG

David Cake – NCSG

Stephanie Perrin – NCSG

Apologies:

Christian Dawson – ISPCP

Michele Neylon – RrSG

Jennifer Standiford – RrSG

ICANN staff:

Marika Konings

Amy Bivins

Terri Agnew

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:

 <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/

Wiki page:

 <https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg> https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Terri Agnew

-------------------------------

 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 17 June 2014:

Marika Konings: Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 17 June 2014

Osvaldo Novoa: Hello all

Chris Pelling: afternoon all

Tim Ruiz: can't here anything yet

Don Blumenthal: Can you hear me?

Terri Agnew: No we cant Don

Holly Raiche: No Kathy?

Terri Agnew: Kathy just joined

Kathy: I'm on!

Kathy: Hi All!

Kathy: Hi Holly!

Kathy: Don can we go back and look at D, 2 and 3 briefly too?

Kathy: tx!

Holly Raiche: Hi - and see you in London

steve metalitz: Suggest we handle edits to background information on list. 

Terri Agnew: Stephanie Perrin has joined

Kathy: Adding the following text:

Kathy: OUR STUDY ALSO SHOWS THAT IS IS TURE THAT: BANKS WHO HAVE NOT MAILICIOUSLY REGISTERED DOMAIN NAMES HAVE A HIGHER THAN AVERAGE RATE OF USE OF PROXY/PRIVACY REGISTRATION. STUDY LIMITIONS:  THE STUDY NOTES; “it is important to understandthat the selection we have made is not necessarily representative of the overall usage ofdomain names for lawful and harmless reasons.” 

Kathy: tx...

Kathy: Can someone please summarirze for those of us who missed the discussion?

Marika Konings: @Kathy - please see the WG response / discussion which summarizes last week's meeting

Marika Konings: WG responde / discussion column (sorry, forgot the last word)

David Cake: It is certainly true that people invent new forms of malicious conduct all the time. 

Terri Agnew: Phil Marano has joined

Stephanie Perrin: "without restricting the generality of the foregoing" usually works...with illustrative examples.

Holly Raiche: gree  - I think the Whois Study gives some examples we could use

Luc Seufer: is malicious really appropriate? Shouldn't it read illegal or alledgedly so?

steve metalitz: Here we are talking about reports, i.e., allegations that are within the scope of what the abuse contact needs to handle.  

Holly Raiche: @ Luc - there can be some behaviours that may be malicious, but not necessarily illegal in some jurisdictions

Luc Seufer: Thank Holly. That's why I thought, I don't like the idea of puting technical intermediary in the judge seat.

steve metalitz: @Kathy, your question will be discussed under "reveal."  This question is about what would be covered by abuse contact.  

Luc Seufer: Either something has been judged illegal or is blatnatly illegal (under the law of the p/p provider) and they need to act. Or they don't.

Chris Pelling: and agaim this comes does to where the P/P is located

Kathy: Interesting, tx Holly

Todd Williams: I may be missing something, but I don't see how the WG Preliminary Conclusion for D4 answers the question.  The question seems to be about what types of conduct would be covered by the point of contact, but then the answer talks about what kind of standardized reporting form to use.

Holly Raiche: I think there are two kinds of response: one by LEA for which the abuse point of contact would be used, and the other is other types of conduct

steve metalitz: NO Don we also need an indicative list,but open-ended. .

Libby Baney: @Luc regarding the applicable laws, in some cases it may be true that the relevant law is where the p/p is located, but in instances for example of online sales of medicines the laws where the patient/consumer is located are also applicable

Marika Konings: @Todd - the preliminary conclusion is only one part based on the conversation last week. 

Todd Williams: Thanks Marika

Tim Ruiz: ...or other forms of malicious contact that may yet be identified by ICANN Policy...

steve metalitz: @Kathy again, that is an issue for when a reveal or relay would be needed, not relevant to coverage.  

Kathy: @Steve, this seems to be our "reporting" question

Kathy: I think the preliminary conclusion is one of conduct and not reporting mechanisms...

Kathy: IMHO

Chris Pelling: @Libby, sorry but this still comes down to the location of the P/P provider, it is at the discretion of the P/P provider if they feel the service is being abused by any other law

Volker Greimann: @steve: Even revealing the identity to one person violates the privacy of the customer

Chris Pelling: totally correct @Volker 

Justin Macy: @Chris, I think the problem is when a law is in place to prevent a particular behavior in almost every jurisdiction and the registrant intentionally limits its activities to every jurisdiction, but the p/p providers.

steve metalitz: @Volker, this is why standards for reveal are important

Chris Pelling: @Justin, then sorry, but it is up to the PP provider whether/how they deal with it

Chris Pelling: some laws in the US and not law is the EU, and vice versa

steve metalitz: Support Don's proposals for London agenda.  Will need to drop off this call shortly.  See many of you in London!   

Graeme Bunton: Thanks Steve

Chris Pelling: safe trip Steve

Marika Konings: Yes, definitely

Kathy: Not huge numbers of handouts, but enough for people to read across the audience.... perhaps

Volker Greimann: I have no problem with revealing to LEAs of competent authority.

Volker Greimann: Anything beyond that will need extreme justification

Justin Macy: @Chris, jurisdictional legality isn't the only consideration in this. See spam, which isn't illegal in a number of jurisdictions.

Libby Baney: @Chris - the good news is that this group, by adopting good policies on the issue of malicious activity, relay/reveal, can address malicious activity

Libby Baney: @justin - right

Luc Seufer: @Justin as long as spammers only spam internet users in their jurisdiction where spamming is legal

Luc Seufer: ;-)

Justin Macy: @Luc, correct. :)

Chris Pelling: @Justin, agree, but it will never be stopped I am sorry to say, and it certanly wont make difference with regards the PP service, that comes down to going after the mail server

Graeme Bunton: i think we're all gearing up for travel

Kathy: Tx Don!

Chris Pelling: and the IP of the mail server is always open to show

Kathy: Safe travels, All

Chris Pelling: @libby again down to the discresion of the PP provider and their jurisdiction 

Chris Pelling: thanks Don

Chris Pelling: Sage travels all

Chris Pelling: Safe *

Holly Raiche: safe travels

Luc Seufer: Gratitude Don

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