[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2
Kathy Kleiman
kathy at kathykleiman.com
Wed Mar 5 22:05:59 UTC 2014
Hi Steve,
We are trying to track it down...
Best,
Kathy
:
>
> Kathy, apologies if I missed this, but could you provide links to/
> copies of those studies and results? Thanks.
>
> Steve Metalitz
>
> *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Kathy Kleiman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 05, 2014 8:47 AM
> *To:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat
> B, questions 1 and 2
>
> Hi Marika and All,
> I think the quote remains misleading in its context and placement. I
> recommend we a) delete it or b) clarify it and place it in context
> with explanatory text. For the bottom line is that regardless of the
> study drafters' personal opinions (and it is an opinion -- not what
> they were asked to study or prove in their study), it's wrong. Studies
> have been done; results have been found. If you protect
> people's/organization's privacy, the data they provide is more
> accurate. That's true of ccTLDs and gTLDs!
>
> Best,
> Kathy
>
>
>
> So, more proposed edits to come!:
>
> To further clarify, the quote in Kathy's email ('it is doubtful if
> these claims could be independently audited or verified') is a
> direct quote from the Interisle Study. It may be important to
> distinguish here between a _ccTLD_ study and a _gTLD_ study of P/P
> registrations. The Nominet opt-out programme is managed by Nominet
> and has specific eligibility requirements, this makes it
> presumably easier to 1) get access to the underlying data and 2)
> verify whether the data is accurate or not, which does not seem to
> have been the case for studies that have focused on accuracy of
> gTLD registration data (also presumably because without an
> accreditation program it is even hard to identify whether or not
> the researcher dealing with a P/P service as well as getting
> access to the underlying customer data).
>
> However, as said before, if you have any additional data or
> studies that are relevant to this question, please share these so
> that they can be added to the template.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org
> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
> *Date: *Tuesday 4 March 2014 16:07
> *To: *Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com
> <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
> *Cc: *"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates
> Cat B, questions 1 and 2
>
> All, please note that the information in the background section
> are all direct quotes from the Whois studies, Whois Review Team
> report or other studies. If you have any other studies/references
> that would be helpful to include, please share these with the list
> and I will be happy to add these to the document.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marika
>
>
> On 4 mrt. 2014, at 15:49, "Michele Neylon - Blacknight"
> <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>
> +1 to Kathy
>
> I recall seeing multiple studies stating exactly the same thing
>
> If you respect privacy then people will provide better quality
> data
>
> It's logical and obvious
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.co/
>
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
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> http://www.technology.ie
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> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
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> *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Kathy Kleiman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 4, 2014 1:46 PM
> *To:* Marika Konings; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated
> templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2
>
> Marika, Tx you for checking with Lesley! But the results of
> that study *were *shared with the Whois Review Team, so the
> idea that "it is doubtful if these claims could be
> independently audited or verified" is not true. It has been
> checked - in this field and many others. People have less
> incentive to mislead when they know their interests (including
> privacy) are protected.
>
> I'm happy to work with you on finding additional studies, and
> summaries of studies, but the opinion in the paper does need
> to be updated or removed.
>
> Tx,
> Kathy
> :
>
> Kathy, on the Nominet study, please note the information
> in the updated template for Cat B question 2 that was
> circulated last week. (see attached). I reached out to
> Lesley Cowley last week and she informed me that
> unfortunately the study is not publicly available.
> However, should there be any specific questions in
> relation to the data on opt-out, she would be do her best
> to try and assist.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com
> <mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>>
> *Date: *Tuesday 4 March 2014 14:23
> *To: *"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>"
> <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated
> templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2
>
> What Volker writes below makes sense to me, All. Provided
> the agreed upon 2013 RAA review of data has been done by
> someone, I don't see why we should duplicate it. The scope
> of our WG is p/p providers affiliated with registrars --
> so coordination of the review of the data, per the ICANN
> rules, in conjunction with the Registrar makes perfect
> sense to me.
>
> As does a "no-privacy penalty." What we have found
> (Nominet and others -- BTW no one on staff reached out to
> me to help dig out this study, can we do that this week?)
> is that when people know their data is private and
> protected, it is more accurate. That makes sense and
> complies with government advice from all corners. Even the
> US Federal Trade Commission says not to give out your name
> and phone number in a way that is open and unprotected!
>
> So I think we are already headed towards more accurate
> data...
> Best,
> Kathy
> :
>
> Hi Steven,
>
> if we can limit that obligation to those cases where
> no validation of the underlying data has been
> performed by the registrar of record, we might be
> getting somewhere. An independent obligation that
> duplicates work already done will help no one and
> confuse many.
>
> Volker
>
>
>
> Am 03.03.2014 19:51, schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
>
> Thanks Volker. It is precisely because "the
> registrars obligation only extends to the
> registrant of record, not to anyone who may use
> the domain name with permission of that
> registrant," that there should be an independent
> obligation on the part of the p/p service provider
> to validate its customer's contact information.
>
> Steve.
>
>
>
> *From:*Volker Greimann
> [mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 03, 2014 5:32 AM
> *To:* Metalitz, Steven;
> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review -
> updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2
>
> Hi Steven,
>
>
>
> Even when this assertion is relevant, it may not
> be persuasive, for a number of reasons. For
> example, the Whois data reminder obligation
> applies to the registrant of record. In the case
> of a proxy service, the registrant or record is
> the service, not its customer. If a Whois data
> reminder is sent to a non-proxy registrant and
> bounces back, then the RAA requires the registrar
> to re-verify. But a data reminder sent to a proxy
> service will almost never bounce back, and
> therefore there may be no RAA obligation to
> re-verify. This is so even if the customer data
> provided to the service is inaccurate or outdated.
> In this circumstance it is up to the p/p service
> accreditation standards to specify the conditions
> under which customer data must be re-verified.
>
>
> This depends on how the service is set up. One
> could suggest that if such required messages from
> the registrar do not reach the registrant, it
> could become the providers' obligation to perform
> the information requirements on its own. The
> registrar could then rely on the provider to
> perform its duties under the accreditation
> agreement with ICANN just at it performs its own
> obligations under the RAA.
>
> Please also remember that the registrars
> obligation only extends to the registrant of
> record, not to anyone who may use the domain name
> with permission of that registrant.
>
> V.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
>
>
> Volker A. Greimann
>
> - Rechtsabteilung -
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