[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI WG -- questions for list

Michele Neylon - Blacknight michele at blacknight.com
Fri May 23 09:40:25 UTC 2014 

Volker

It’s a legal requirement under Irish law – it’s also why you get all my contact details in every single email I send including the company’s address and registered number. The Irish legislation is worded in such a way that it just makes sense to put it all out there in every electronic communication rather than risk falling foul of the law.

We’re also obliged to follow the EU legislation with respect to cookies (not the edible variety unfortunately) and the Irish DPA has pursued Irish companies who were not complying.

As for levels of consensus and how they are reached, I’d tend to agree with your characterisation of matters.

Regards

Michele


--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Domains
http://www.blacknight.co/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://www.technology.ie
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
Locall: 1850 929 929
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Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 9:26 AM
To: John Horton; Michele Neylon - Blacknight
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI WG -- questions for list

Hi John,

maybe I am too European, but I actually think that putting your business details on your website is the norm and good practice. In fact, in the EEC, it is the law. When a service does not do this, or not properly, that is a usually a good sign that something is fishy. Usually a better sign than anything whois details can tell me.

At least all over Europe, lawmakers have thought long and hard about where to require this data to be placed, and they have agreed that the website is the best way to do it. I believe this should serve as a signal for our deliberations as well.

I think the use of "where similar legal requirements already exist" clearly makes the point that this is not the case around the world (yet).

Best,

Volker





Am 22.05.2014 18:47, schrieb John Horton:
I'd agree with Kiran that if possible, it's helpful to edit an existing document, so that everyone can see the tracked changes, including what's been removed. I'd be particularly interested in knowing what phrases seem inaccurate to others, or (to cite Volker's concern) drafted to favor one position. We (genuinely) are trying to propose a balanced statement that reflects the divergent views in the group, and welcome edits.

Although my sense was that Libby's version was fair and balanced, I'd like to flag my concern (with respect and appreciation for the draft, Volker!) about this sentence in Volker's version:

However, a number of other WG members, also representing their SO/AC/C, noted that where similar legal requirements already exist for the "online world", such disclosure is usually required to be contained under a prominent link on the web site as in the translation from the "offline world" to the "online world" legislators usually focussed on the content available under the domain name, not the domain name registration itself.

​ I understand that the paragraph includes the phrase "where similar legal requirements already exist" perhaps makes the statement technically accurate -- it's sort of a truism -- but it's really not a common enough legal requirement around the world that (in my opinion) it has relevance for this discussion or the WG's written answer. I think it leads the reader to (inaccurately) conclude that such requirements generally exist, and therefore any disclosure requirement in the Whois record for commercial-use entities would be duplicative. I don't believe that the data exist to support that conclusion. Reasonable minds can disagree as to the answer to Question 1, but I don't think we should imply that "Yes" is simply duplicative of already-existing legal requirements, as I think that phrase is (unintentionally, I'm sure) likely to favor the other position.


John Horton
President, LegitScript
 [https://static.legitscript.com/assets/logo-smaller-cdb8a6f307ce2c6172e72257dc6dfc34.png]



Follow LegitScript: LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com>  |  Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript>  |  Twitter<https://twitter.com/legitscript>  |  YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitScript>  |  Blog<http://blog.legitscript.com>  |  Google+<https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
Thanks for this Volker
I would be supportive of this language

Regards

Michele


--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Domains
http://www.blacknight.co/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://www.technology.ie
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%C2%A0%209183072>
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 4:57 PM
To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI WG -- questions for list

I can't support the amended language for obvious reasons. The draft proposed here is clearly drafted to favor one position. If we want to get anywere, we need a more balanced approach.

How about this:

1)

c)

As noted above, the WG appears to unanimously agree that the mere fact of a domain being registered as a commercial entity, or conducting commercial activity in other spheres, should not prevent the use of p/p domain name registration services.

A number of WG members, representing their SO/AC/C, noted that in the “offline world” businesses often are required to register with the relevant authority as well as disclose details about their identity and location. These members suggested that domains used for commercial purposes should be ineligible for privacy and proxy registrations. However, a number of other WG members, also representing their SO/AC/C, noted that where similar legal requirements already exist for the "online world", such disclosure is usually required to be contained under a prominent link on the web site as in the translation from the "offline world" to the "online world" legislators usually focussed on the content available under the domain name, not the domain name registration itself. Further, these members argue that there may be valid reasons why domain name registrants using their domain names for commercial purposes may legitimately need the availability of such services.

There is further divergence within the WG between those members expressing the view that it is both necessary and practical to distinguish in the whois between domains used for a commercial purpose and those domains that are not used for a noncommercial purpose, and those members that expressed the view that it is neither practical nor necessary to require p/p service providers to make that distinction.

Volker
Am 22.05.2014 16:55, schrieb Libby Baney:
All -- as evidenced on last week's call, there is concern about the language in the draft conclusion for Cat C threshold question. Per the request for specific edits, attached are redlined edits to the template submitted for the group's consideration by FWD Strategies Int'l, LegitScript, MarkMonitor and DomainTools. We look forward to your comments and further discussion if needed.

Thanks,
Libby

www.FWDstrategies.com<http://www.FWDstrategies.com>


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>> wrote:
Following on from Steve's emails, please find attached the updated templates for C3 and D1, incorporating the notes from the meeting (if I've missed anything, please share your comments / edits with the mailing list). To re-emphasise the action items from the meeting:

  1.  Please provide your input on the draft preliminary conclusion for C threshold, C1 and C2 as circulated by Don. Several of you suggested removing the word 'overwhelming' from the draft. Are there any other proposed edits?
  2.  Please provide your input on question C3, especially if you are of the view that there should be differences in the data fields displayed for commercial entity and natural person P/P registrations.
  3.  Please provide your input on question D1, especially whether it would be desirable to have a public registry of P/P services contact information and a requirement to respond to enquiries both from P/P customers as well as those looking to contact P/P customers. Input on what would qualify as a 'response' and a possible timeframe for responses are also encouraged.
  4.  Kathy and James will provide an update at the next meeting on issues surrounding transfers between registrars of P/P registrations and possible questions the WG may want to address in this context.

Best regards,

Marika

From: <Metalitz>, Steven <met at msk.com<mailto:met at msk.com>>
Date: Tuesday 20 May 2014 18:06
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>, "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: PPSAI WG -- questions for list

Thanks to all participants on today’s call.  Following up on requests made on the call ----

Regarding Don’s draft preliminary text regarding questions C(threshold), C 1 and C2, please circulate your comments and (especially welcomed!) proposed edits.  Don’s draft is re-attached here for ready reference.

Regarding question C.3:  If the following applies to you, please respond on the list:

IF you believe that privacy/proxy services ought to be open to commercial entities under some circumstances, THEN should there be a difference in the data displayed for such registrations (vs. what is displayed for p/p registrations by natural persons)?  If the answer is YES, please specify the differences.

For myself I will say that my answer is NO, but I hope that any YES people will step forward on the list.

Thanks!

Steve Metalitz, vice chair



From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Marika Konings
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 3:39 PM
To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed Agenda - PPSAI WG Meeting

Dear All,

Please find below the proposed agenda for tomorrow's PPSAI WG Meeting.

Best regards,

Marika

Proposed Agenda – PPSAI WG Meeting – 20 May 2014

  1.  Roll Call / SOI
  2.  Review proposed preliminary conclusion for threshold question, C1 and C2 (as circulated by Don)
  3.  Review C3 – is additional response/discussion needed in light of item 2? (see template attached)
  4.  Continue deliberations on D1 (see updated template attached)
  5.  Next steps / confirm next meeting

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President
FWD Strategies International
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P: 202-499-2296<tel:202-499-2296>




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Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.



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Im Oberen Werk 1

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Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851

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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.



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