[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 16 September 2014 at 1400 UTC

Nathalie Peregrine nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
Tue Sep 16 17:48:19 UTC 2014

Dear All,


Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 16 September 2014 at 14:00 UTC at:




On page: 



The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:

 <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/



Steve Metalitz - IPC

Graeme Bunton – RrSG

Griffin Barnett – IPC

Frank Michlick – Individual

Don Blumenthal – RySG

David Heasley-IPC

Jim Bikoff-IPC

Chris Pelling – RrSG

Kathy Kleiman – NCSG

Justin Macy - BC

Susan Kawaguchi – BC

Kristina Rosette – IPC

Darcy Southwell – RrSG

Paul McGrady – IPC

Phil Marano – IPC

Sarah Wyld – RrSG

Victoria Scheckler - IPC

Michele Neylon – RrSG

Lindsay Hamilton-Reid – RrSG

James Bladel – RrSG

Val Sherman – IPC

Luc Seufer – RrSG

David Hughes - IPC

Alex Deacon – IPC

Carlton Samuels – At-Large

Todd Williams – IPC

Phil Corwin – BC

Michael Palage - RySG

Sean McInerney – no SOI



Apologies :

Holly Raiche – ALAC

Christian Dawson – ISPCP

Volker Greimann - RrSG



ICANN staff:

Mary Wong

Marika Konings

Amy Bivins

Danielle Andela

Nathalie Peregrine


** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **


Mailing list archives:

 <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/


Wiki page:

 <https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg> https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg


Thank you.

Kind regards,





 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 16 September 2014:

Nathalie  Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the PPSAI call on the 16th September 2014

  Graeme Bunton:g'morning all

  Mary Wong:Hello everyone

  Carlton Samuels:morning all

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Hello Carlton, presence noted for attendance

  Chris Pelling:afternoon all

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Kathy Kleiman and Paul McGrady have joined the AC room

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Vicky Scheckler is also in the AC room

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Susan Kawaguchi has joined the call

  Nathalie  Peregrine:David Hughes is on the audido bridge only

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Kristina Rosette has joined the Ac room

  Carlton Samuels:+1. P/P Service Should be a separate contract

  Kathy:+1 James and Carlton

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Frank Michlick has joined the AC room

  Carlton Samuels:Not only because providers need not be registrars but given the range of issues that is the best holistic approach

  Graeme Bunton:I think James captured that well

  Mary Wong:@James, everyone, we'll certainly take that back to the Registrar Team, thank you.

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Luc Seufer has joined the AC room

  Bladel:Did we lose Don?

  Mary Wong:I can hear him

  Graeme Bunton:i can hear him

  Nathalie  Peregrine:we can hear you

  Bladel:sorry I dropped...redialing.

  Chris Pelling:bit this is one registgrars terms

  Chris Pelling:but *

  Don Blumenthal:Two with Tucows. :)

  Kathy:Question for James: Does DBP offer any opportunity for customer to respond prior to disclosure or publication?

  Carlton Samuels:@Kathy: That is also my question..which leads directly to Steve's

  Chris Pelling:Sorry Don, I was meaning to do with Steve's points.  We are the same as TuCows in that we do not host websites or material

  Chris Pelling:We would essentially be doing the same as TuCows

  Don Blumenthal:Chris, thanks for the clarificaiton. I didn't want Graeme to feel left out.

  Chris Pelling:well you can add a third as we would be the same as TuCows :)

  Mary Wong:@Kathy @James, from the DBP website: "When DBP receives certified or traceable courier mail or legal notices addressed to Your domain name, in most cases, DBP will attempt to forward the mail to you via email. If You do not respond to the DBP email and/or the correspondence DBP has received regarding Your domain name registration concerns a dispute of any kind or otherwise requires immediate disposition, DBP may immediately reveal Your identity and/or cancel the DBP private registration service regarding either the domain name registration(s) in question. This means the Whois directory will revert to displaying Your name, postal address, email address and phone number that you provided to DBP."

  Bladel:Well, there's no Gala on wednesday...

  Mary Wong:From our review of the DBP terms provided in response to us, they also reserve the right to resolve all third party claims, and take any other action necessary if there is a TM violation.

  Luc Seufer:@James do you think I could fight against one of those .kids? Seems to be the only option for me not to get knock down  too swiftly

  Kathy:Tx James!  3 questions:

  Kathy:1. Can the customer respond to the allegations?

  Kathy:Tx Graeme!

  Kathy:2. Can the customer know before publication?

  Kathy:3. Can the customer take other actions to prevent publication, e.g, takedown

  Graeme Bunton:The customer would know

  Don Blumenthal:Chris, it would be shorter than the auction prooces

  Kathy:Graeme, is there any writing from Tucows that we might use as an example?

  Graeme Bunton:Kathy - nope!

  Kathy::-) OK

  Kristina Rosette:Would it also be possible for the providers to supply some general information about the percentage of requests for disclosure are successful (and even better if that information is available by "claim" type)?  It would be a good benchmark to have, I think.

  Vicky Sheckler:in thinking about standards/current practices, it would be useful to understand context in terms of reason for request ( law enforcement, third party claims of IP infringement, other, etc.) 

  Graeme Bunton:Kristina - that sort of transparency reporting is going to be beyond the majority of providers at the moment i bet.

  Michele Neylon:Kristina - we'd do a transparency report *if* we had enough to talk about

  Michele Neylon:of anything .. 

  Michele Neylon:we get one UDRP per year (on average)

  Kathy:how did you know, Michele?


  Chris Pelling:this year I think we have had 2 or 3 UDRP's if that helps

  Nathalie  Peregrine:please remember to state your names for the transcript

  Carlton Samuels:@Michele: Don't forget to add the civil law enforcement agencies

  Paul McGrady:I'm having trouble following the conversation.  Lots of overlapping speakers.

  Carlton Samuels:@Don: Yes, +1. Its a mess

 Kathy:Could someone post this definition?

  Vicky Sheckler:+1 for james's comment

  Val Sherman:+1 James

  Bladel:3.18.2 Registrar shall establish and maintain a dedicated abuse point of contact, including a dedicated email address and telephone number that is monitored 24 hours a day, seven days a week, to receive reports of Illegal Activity by law enforcement, consumer protection, quasi-governmental or other similar authorities designated from time to time by the national or territorial government of the jurisdiction in which the Registrar is established or maintains a physical office. Well-founded reports of Illegal Activity submitted to these contacts must be reviewed within 24 hours by an individual who is empowered by Registrar to take necessary and appropriate actions in response to the report. In responding to any such reports, Registrar will not be required to take any action in contravention of applicable law.

  Carlton Samuels:@Kathy: +1. Very good point

  Carlton Samuels:Thereafter it moves upto MLATs and such. No reinvention of the wheel

  Michele Neylon:MLATs

  Michele Neylon:such fun :)

  Kathy:@James, tx and useful def. 

  Carlton Samuels:@Michele: I knew that would cause a chuckle out of ya

  Kathy:it includes the jurisdiction concept

  Michele Neylon:Carlton - there was some good discussion about jurisdiction at IGF

  Mary Wong:Following up on Steve's point, note that DBP has separate policies for UDRP, TM/Copyright Notices, and Subpoenas from LEA.

  Carlton Samuels:@Michele: Yessir

  Chris Pelling:however the person who requests the information is not bound by any agreement though

  Darcy Southwell:How would a P/P provide enforce?

  Chris Pelling:exactly Don

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Sean McInerney has joined the AC room

  Vicky Sheckler:kathy re: good faith standard approach

  Kathy:Domains by Proxy language:

  Kathy:A good faith statement, under penalty of perjury, from either thecopyright holder or an authorized representative of the copyrightholder, stating that the use of the copyright content by the allegedinfringer (i) infringes the copyright holder’s rights and (ii) is notdefensible.

  Chris Pelling:to be honest, I do not think the complainee will really care, we have seen clear DMCA complaints which reading them are fraudulant 

  Vicky Sheckler:Chris - while there are some abuses, most rightsholders do take the langauge seriously

  Chris Pelling:@Vicky, this is why we only provide on court order as we have something in hand we can then go back with

  steve metalitz:Murder is a good analogy?  Not where I sit....

  Chris Pelling:thats not a bad thought Michele

  Don Blumenthal:We have talked about murder and ICANN boxing on this call. I'm getting a bad feeling.

  Chris Pelling:depends if you get away with it steve :)


  Chris Pelling:not that I have ever done it, but, I am sure some people have and have got away with it

  Chris Pelling:surely you are inocent until proven cuilty, and the only ones that can do that are LEA or Courts ?

  Chris Pelling:just trying to think the flow for proof essentially

  Chris Pelling:cuily = guilty

  Luc Seufer:is there any country where making a false declaration isn't punishable?

  Graeme Bunton:James' sports team IS the worst.

  Luc Seufer:The one with a bird as logo?

  Don Blumenthal:Whichever team it is?

  Chris Pelling:@Luc you have to be able to enforce the punishment

  Chris Pelling:for example you are in the EU

  Kathy:Alot to think about - including the range of legal ways people use domain names (that tick other people off)

  Kathy:tx Don!

  Chris Pelling:thanks :)


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