[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 30 September 2014 at 1400 UTC

Nathalie Peregrine nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
Tue Sep 30 19:37:11 UTC 2014

Dear All,


Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 30 September 2014 at 14:00 UTC at:




On page: 

 <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep> http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:

 <http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/



Steve Metalitz - IPC

Graeme Bunton – RrSG

Griffin Barnett – IPC

Frank Michlick – Individual

Don Blumenthal – RySG

David Heasley-IPC

Jim Bikoff-IPC

Chris Pelling – RrSG

Kathy Kleiman – NCSG

Darcy Southwell – RrSG

Sarah Wyld – RrSG

Victoria Scheckler - IPC

James Bladel – RrSG

Val Sherman – IPC

Todd Williams – IPC

Keith Kupferschmid-IPC

Amr Elsadr-NCUC

Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP

Tatiana Khramtsova - RrSG

Phil Corwin-BC

Kristina Rosette – IPC

Phil Marano – IPC

Kiran Malancharuvil-IPC

Theo Geurts – RrSG

Susan Kawaguchi – BC

David Hughes – IPC

Justin Macy – BC

Stephanie Perrin – NCSG

Paul McGrady - IPC


Sean McInerney – no SOI

David Cake-NCSG

Libby Baney-BC

Michael Palage - RySG

Alex Deacon – IPC

Lindsay Hamilton-Reid – RrSG


Apologies :

Susan Prosser – RrSG

Michele Neylon – RrSG

Luc Seufer – RrSG

Christian Dawson – ISPCP

Carlton Samuels – At-Large

Holly Raiche – ALAC


ICANN staff:

Mary Wong

Marika Konings

Amy Bivins

Nathalie Peregrine



** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **


Mailing list archives:

 <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/


Wiki page:

 <https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg> https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg


Thank you.

Kind regards,





 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 30 September 2014:


  Nathalie  Peregrine:Welcome to the PPSAI WG meeting of 30 September 2014!

  Chris Pelling:afternoon all

  Theo Geurts:afternoon Chris

  Graeme Bunton:Hello all

  Darcy Southwell:Hello!

  Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all!

  vicky sheckler:hi

  Don Blumenthal:Be there is a minute. Phone issues again.

  Paul McGrady:Good morning everyone.

  Val Sherman:Good morning all

  Don Blumenthal:I can hear through the PC. Whjy not start the recording and do roll call.

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Don, the operator is dialing out to you shortly

  Kristina Rosette:Apologies for being late. 

  Don Blumenthal:I'm on the line.

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Amr Eslsadr has joined the call

  Mary Wong:We've tried to clarify in this updated document that the idea wasn't to not allow phones, but to minimize phone use (ie doesn't mean you can't receive messages, just asking that if you do to please step outside for that brief moment)

  Kristina Rosette:Thanks, Don.


  Kathy:oops - don't we have until Friday?

  Kristina Rosette:For those of us who will have to leave at 3 (Michele & me, perhaps others) for the SO/AC leaders meeting, will we have a  later opportunity to provide input on the topics discussed from 3 PM on at the F2F?

  Kristina Rosette:I'll take my answer off line, later.

  Kristina Rosette:thanks.

  Marika Konings:@Kristina - as not everyone will be able to participate in the meeting, whether it is in person or remote, the idea has always been that any conclusions would always go back to the list for any comments / suggestions from those that were not able to attend.

  Kristina Rosette:super, thanks, Marika

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Phil Marano has joined the call

  Kathy:@Mary, can you put that time/date into chart?


  Mary Wong:Wednesday 15 October, 8.15-9.45 a.m.

  Kristina Rosette:@Mary & Marika:  I'll miss whatever part of that Wednesday session conflicts with the GAC session on geonames.

  Mary Wong:@Kristina, thanks - we've been trying to minimize conflicts but that's getting harder and harder!

  Kristina Rosette:@Mary: understood (and agreed)

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Kiran Malancharuvil has joined the call

  Kathy:@Mary: can we add "inquiry into freedom of expression+ concerns" to Notes? Tx!

  Chris Pelling:can the dics be released please so I can move it now I have made it alrger ?

  Chris Pelling:docs*

  Mary Wong:@Chris, the doc is unsync'ed so you should be able to move it up and down and enlarge with the + button.

  Chris Pelling:@Mary, up and down yes, not left to right

  Chris Pelling:The Hand (PAN) isnt working here

  Marika Konings:Chris, do note that the document is only one page

  Chris Pelling:@Mariika, unless it is a single coloum I cant see it 

  Chris Pelling:http://gyazo.com/f17169baacc6ac3c0a4308c3a4137fd0

  Chris Pelling:thats what I see

  Chris Pelling:sorryu for the white on black

  Kristina Rosette:um, well, if they don't respond, we don't see anything.  seriously.

  Paul McGrady:Those stats are hard to come by because if they don't respond we don't know why they don't respond.

  Graeme Bunton:knowing how many have no response is still useful

  Marika Konings:@Chris - not sure what is going on but we are getting you the link so you can download the document.

  Chris Pelling:aha - perfect

  Graeme Bunton:we need to understand the volume of the issue from the requestor side as well

  Marika Konings:@Chris - please try if this works: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/49355456/Cat%20F%20Questions%20at%20a%20Glance%20PDF.pdf?version=1 <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/49355456/Cat%20F%20Questions%20at%20a%20Glance%20PDF.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1412087616515&api=v2> &modificationDate=1412087616515&api=v2

  Kathy:Oh good, not immediately!

  Chris Pelling:bingo Marika :) :)

  steve metalitz:@Graeme, why?  What would that tell you if you knew how many requests entity X sends to all providers?

  Amr Elsadr:I wonder if there is any legislation that may influence a p/p provider's ability to reveal customer data to a 3rd party or even LE. Do we need data on this as well?

  Bladel:@Steve:  If there is an absence of data, that is still useful.  WE would better understand where the "holes" are.

  Chris Pelling:To be honest Steve I think it would be good to receive some stats from the requestors side so we can see how big a problem this is from your side

  Kathy:@Stephanie, Amr and All, can we ask Staff to look into how disclosures to third parties are handled under some data protection laws?

  Kristina Rosette:I don't mean this to sound snarky, but I, for one, wouldn't be spending 3 hours a week on this WG, if the issue wasn't considered a problem.

  Keith Kupferschmid:There are many more trademark and copyright owners than p/p services. thus, any information we would get from the IP owner side whiel somewhat helpfuil would be less helpful thaninfo we could get from the p/p services.

  Kathy:It's in scope

  Kristina Rosette:I have a different question:  I seem to recall that a call or 2 ago, several of the providers expressed surprise (or I took it that way) that there are providers not affiliated with registrars.   Has the RrSG been tracking any data?

  Stephanie Perrin:As a followup to my comments, it would be useful if p/P providers have had complaints to data commissioners after a reveal/disclosure/publication, if they could share the results of the investigations....

  Chris Pelling:I doubt it @Kristina, but, I am certainly not the person to ask re rrsg keeping stats etc

  Bladel:If they aren't affilated, how would the RrSG be able to track data?

  Bladel:Honestly, the only unaffilated services we encounter are the folks who "spoof" these services by copying WHOIS data.

  Kristina Rosette:@James: That's my point.  If most are affiliated with registrars (which was my takeaway from that conversation), I was wondering if the RrSG had tracked any data or put out a request for it.  

  Kathy:@Kristina, do you think we could get data from the IPC/BC about requests for Reveal and Relay?

  Kathy:Such data would be very valuable to better understand what is happening

  Kristina Rosette:@Kathy:  We can certainly get the word out.

  Kristina Rosette:Speaking only for IPC, of course.

  Kathy:@Kristina, tx you!

  Bladel:Maybe...sounds like two major consumers of these mechanisms prefer "Relay"

  Kathy:@Don, I have the same sense --- that Reveal may not now be as important as Relay

  Kathy:I can't hear Vicky :-(

  Susan Kawaguchii:No we should be discussing a standard reveal process 

  Susan Kawaguchii:but we should not be doing so thinking it may result in wholesal release of a registrants contact information

  Kristina Rosette:@Susan:  +1 (as to standard reveal)

  Kiran Malancharuvil:James, I wouldn't say we "prefer" relay insofar as that might be interpreted as us saying we don't value good policy on reveal. we are just saying that we historically use relay because that's the most appropriate way to deal with the kind of requests we make.

  Kiran Malancharuvil:+1 to Susan

  Val Sherman:+1 Susan and Vicky -- we should discuss what a standard reveal process should look like

  Bladel:More data is never a bad thing, even if it is acknowledged to be incomplete.

  Keith Kupferschmid:Agree with Val and Vicki, we need to continue our discussion of what a standard reveal process would look like.  Yes, we need data but I think we can continue the discussion while we collect this data.

  Graeme Bunton:a few hands left up i think

  Bladel:I'm sorry, I have to drop.  Thanks all.

  Chris Pelling:I am sorry to sound blunt, but the type of data being requested is NOT easy to simply pull out

  Paul McGrady:Sorry for keeping my hand up!

  Chris Pelling:I am probably lucky, I can count on one hand how many we have had

  Graeme Bunton:Thanks Paul

  Chris Pelling:BUT some providers cant

  Mary Wong:@kathy, right - I'm just suggesting that for Publication the group may be closer than we'd thought. But we may still need to discuss Disclosure

  Kathy:@Mary - takedown too!

  Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.

  Kathy:It's an option we have discussed a lot

  Theo Geurts:thanks all

  Darcy Southwell:Thanks, bye.


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