[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Company Disclosures - Irish Case

Tue Aug 18 15:32:11 UTC 2015

Hi Kiran,
in Germany (and mostly throughout the EU based on harmonized law), there are information and disclosure requirements for telemedia services. The information duties are different depending on the service or information offered, but they are conclusive, i.e. if you follow what is explicitly requested by law, then you are compliant. There is no such requirement for whois. 

I hope this helps.

Best,
Thomas
---
rickert.net

> Am 18.08.2015 um 16:26 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil <Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com>:
> 
> Thanks Michele,
> 
> I did read the entire document as well as the "leaflet" linked. Thanks again for providing. 
> 
> It hasn't been my experience that the absence of a direct reference to a parallel or complimentary issue in a law means that there is no law or legal standard governing or guiding that parallel or complimentary issue. 
> 
> Nor would I draw the somewhat surprising conclusion that Volker makes that requiring disclosure on a website makes Whois unnecessary. 
> 
> Question: who enforces this provision? How do consumers or consumer protection companies submit requests where that information is missing or incorrect? 
> 
> K
> 
> Kiran Malancharuvil 
> Policy Counselor
> MarkMonitor
> 415-419-9138 (m) 
> 
> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. 
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Kiran
>> 
>> If you read the entire document and the “leaflet” linked to they only talk about websites and pages on websites. There’s also an advisory that they put out some time back about email communications.
>> 
>> There is nothing anywhere that refers to whois in any shape or form. 
>> 
>> If all the contact details, company number etc., are on the website (and probably in the emails) then I doubt anyone really cares about what may or may not be in the public whois records. 
>> 
>> Bear in mind also that the .ie ccTLD public whois contains less detail than that of a gTLD:
>> domain:       blacknight.ie
>> descr:        Blacknight Internet Solutions Limited
>> descr:        Body Corporate (Ltd,PLC,Company)
>> descr:        Corporate Name
>> admin-c:      AAE553-IEDR
>> tech-c:       AAM456-IEDR
>> registration: 21-August-2003
>> renewal:      21-August-2016
>> holder-type:  Billable
>> wipo-status:  N
>> ren-status:   Active
>> in-zone:      1
>> nserver:      ns.blacknightsolutions.com
>> nserver:      ns2.blacknightsolutions.com
>> source:       IEDR
>> person:       Blacknight.com Hostmaster
>> nic-hdl:      AAE553-IEDR
>> source:       IEDR
>> person:       Blacknight.ie Hostmaster
>> nic-hdl:      AAM456-IEDR
>> source:       IEDR
>> 
>> If more detail, such as physical address, etc., were required under Irish law I’m pretty sure the .ie ccTLD would include in their whois output.
>> 
>> It’s also worth noting that the whois for .ie in common with most other ccTLDs rate limits queries.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Michele
>> 
>> --
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>> http://www.blacknight.host/
>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>> http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
>> http://www.technology.ie
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> Social: http://mneylon.social
>> Random Stuff: http://michele.irish 
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 18/08/2015 14:55, "Kiran Malancharuvil" <Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Michele,
>>> 
>>> I'm missing the part of the law that expressly states that this doesn't apply to Whois?  (implicit exclusions of the laws applicability would work too) Could you send that? Or maybe it's a case? 
>>> 
>>> Kiran Malancharuvil 
>>> Policy Counselor
>>> MarkMonitor
>>> 415-419-9138 (m) 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. 
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 18, 2015, at 5:25 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> One of the arguments some people put forward against privacy / proxy is one of “transparency”
>>>> 
>>>> Under Irish law limited companies (not businesses / sole traders) have disclosure obligations on their website(s)
>>>> These do NOT apply to whois
>>>> 
>>>> “Every limited liability company which has a website is also required to display either on its homepage or to be identified on its homepage, a readily accessible webpage on which the following appear:
>>>> 
>>>> the name and legal form of the company
>>>> the place of registration of the company and the number with which it is registered
>>>> the address of the registered office of the company
>>>> in the case of a company exempt from the obligation to use the company type (Companies Limited by Guarantee/Designated Activity Companies) as part of its name, the fact that it is such a company.
>>>> in the case of a company which is being wound up, the fact that it is being wound up
>>>> if the share capital of a company is mentioned on the website, the reference must be to the paid-up share capital"
>>>> 
>>>> And https://www.cro.ie/Registration/Company/Incidental-Obligations/Letterheads
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> So you will find Irish companies that are using proxy / privacy on the whois but who publish all their contact details on their website(s)
>>>> 
>>>> You’ll also notice that many of the European registrars (myself included) have our company details in our email signatures - whereas most Non-EU based companies don’t ….
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> 
>>>> Michele
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>>> http://www.blacknight.host/
>>>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>>>> http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
>>>> http://www.technology.ie
>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>>> Social: http://mneylon.social
>>>> Random Stuff: http://michele.irish 
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
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