[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Company Disclosures - Irish Case

Tue Aug 18 16:08:18 UTC 2015

Agreed. So the question remains on the table.

Thanks James.

Kiran

Kiran Malancharuvil 
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138 (m) 

Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. 

> On Aug 18, 2015, at 9:07 AM, James M. Bladel <jbladel at godaddy.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with this.  I also agree with the reverse: That simply because one
> form of transparency (website operator) is required by law, it does not
> necessarily extend to other platforms (WHOIS, business directories, etc.)
> 
> Thanks‹
> 
> J.
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/18/15, 10:39 , "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of
> Kiran Malancharuvil" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of
> Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com> wrote:
> 
>> It doesn't really. How does an affirmative obligation to disclose one
>> thing divest of any discussion about transparency in another regard?
>> 
>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>> Policy Counselor
>> MarkMonitor
>> 415-419-9138 (m)
>> 
>> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>> 
>> On Aug 18, 2015, at 8:32 AM, Thomas Rickert
>> <rickert at anwaelte.de<mailto:rickert at anwaelte.de>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Kiran,
>> in Germany (and mostly throughout the EU based on harmonized law), there
>> are information and disclosure requirements for telemedia services. The
>> information duties are different depending on the service or information
>> offered, but they are conclusive, i.e. if you follow what is explicitly
>> requested by law, then you are compliant. There is no such requirement
>> for whois.
>> 
>> I hope this helps.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Thomas
>> ---
>> rickert.net<http://rickert.net>
>> 
>> 
>> Am 18.08.2015 um 16:26 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil
>> <Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com<mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonito
>> r.com>>:
>> 
>> Thanks Michele,
>> 
>> I did read the entire document as well as the "leaflet" linked. Thanks
>> again for providing.
>> 
>> It hasn't been my experience that the absence of a direct reference to a
>> parallel or complimentary issue in a law means that there is no law or
>> legal standard governing or guiding that parallel or complimentary issue.
>> 
>> Nor would I draw the somewhat surprising conclusion that Volker makes
>> that requiring disclosure on a website makes Whois unnecessary.
>> 
>> Question: who enforces this provision? How do consumers or consumer
>> protection companies submit requests where that information is missing or
>> incorrect?
>> 
>> K
>> 
>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>> Policy Counselor
>> MarkMonitor
>> 415-419-9138 (m)
>> 
>> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>> 
>> On Aug 18, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
>> <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Kiran
>> 
>> If you read the entire document and the ³leaflet² linked to they only
>> talk about websites and pages on websites. There¹s also an advisory that
>> they put out some time back about email communications.
>> 
>> There is nothing anywhere that refers to whois in any shape or form.
>> 
>> If all the contact details, company number etc., are on the website (and
>> probably in the emails) then I doubt anyone really cares about what may
>> or may not be in the public whois records.
>> 
>> Bear in mind also that the .ie ccTLD public whois contains less detail
>> than that of a gTLD:
>> domain:       blacknight.ie<http://blacknight.ie>
>> descr:        Blacknight Internet Solutions Limited
>> descr:        Body Corporate (Ltd,PLC,Company)
>> descr:        Corporate Name
>> admin-c:      AAE553-IEDR
>> tech-c:       AAM456-IEDR
>> registration: 21-August-2003
>> renewal:      21-August-2016
>> holder-type:  Billable
>> wipo-status:  N
>> ren-status:   Active
>> in-zone:      1
>> nserver:      
>> ns.blacknightsolutions.com<http://ns.blacknightsolutions.com>
>> nserver:      
>> ns2.blacknightsolutions.com<http://ns2.blacknightsolutions.com>
>> source:       IEDR
>> person:       Blacknight.com<http://Blacknight.com> Hostmaster
>> nic-hdl:      AAE553-IEDR
>> source:       IEDR
>> person:       Blacknight.ie<http://Blacknight.ie> Hostmaster
>> nic-hdl:      AAM456-IEDR
>> source:       IEDR
>> 
>> If more detail, such as physical address, etc., were required under Irish
>> law I¹m pretty sure the .ie ccTLD would include in their whois output.
>> 
>> It¹s also worth noting that the whois for .ie in common with most other
>> ccTLDs rate limits queries.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Michele
>> 
>> --
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>> http://www.blacknight.host/
>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>> http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
>> http://www.technology.ie
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> Social: http://mneylon.social
>> Random Stuff: http://michele.irish
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
>> Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 18/08/2015 14:55, "Kiran Malancharuvil"
>> <Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com<mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonito
>> r.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Michele,
>> 
>> I'm missing the part of the law that expressly states that this doesn't
>> apply to Whois?  (implicit exclusions of the laws applicability would
>> work too) Could you send that? Or maybe it's a case?
>> 
>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>> Policy Counselor
>> MarkMonitor
>> 415-419-9138 (m)
>> 
>> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>> 
>> On Aug 18, 2015, at 5:25 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
>> <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> One of the arguments some people put forward against privacy / proxy is
>> one of ³transparency²
>> 
>> Under Irish law limited companies (not businesses / sole traders) have
>> disclosure obligations on their website(s)
>> These do NOT apply to whois
>> 
>> ³Every limited liability company which has a website is also required to
>> display either on its homepage or to be identified on its homepage, a
>> readily accessible webpage on which the following appear:
>> 
>> the name and legal form of the company
>> the place of registration of the company and the number with which it is
>> registered
>> the address of the registered office of the company
>> in the case of a company exempt from the obligation to use the company
>> type (Companies Limited by Guarantee/Designated Activity Companies) as
>> part of its name, the fact that it is such a company.
>> in the case of a company which is being wound up, the fact that it is
>> being wound up
>> if the share capital of a company is mentioned on the website, the
>> reference must be to the paid-up share capital"
>> 
>> And 
>> https://www.cro.ie/Registration/Company/Incidental-Obligations/Letterheads
>> 
>> 
>> So you will find Irish companies that are using proxy / privacy on the
>> whois but who publish all their contact details on their website(s)
>> 
>> You¹ll also notice that many of the European registrars (myself included)
>> have our company details in our email signatures - whereas most Non-EU
>> based companies don¹t Š.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Michele
>> 
>> --
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>> http://www.blacknight.host/
>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>> http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
>> http://www.technology.ie
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> Social: http://mneylon.social
>> Random Stuff: http://michele.irish
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
>> Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>> 
>> 
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