[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Company Disclosures - Irish Case

Wed Aug 19 20:21:58 UTC 2015

On August 19, 2015 at 10:27 vgreimann at key-systems.net (Volker Greimann) wrote:
 > Hi Barry,
 > 
 > this should be seen in the context of the demands for differentiation 
 > based upon use of the website, i.e. transactional vs. non-transactional.
 > Whois has no additional benefit for domains used for websites where the 
 > ownership information has to be displayed anyway. Hence privacy is more 
 > than appropriate for such domains.

Yes but the set of domains in WHOIS is a super-set of the set of
domains which reach websites, a much larger super-set.

The set of domains with active DNS are somewhere in between the entire
WHOIS and websites with contact info in coverage but probably a lot
closer to WHOIS since registries tend to default DNS servers on
purchase even if only generic.

These could be measured fairly easily.

But for example domains which are only used for email would be in the
DNS but have no website associated. Very common use of domains.

And those which reach a website within a jurisdictional domain (in the
legal sense) which requires contact information such as you describe
for Germany -- less those not in compliance perhaps due to local lax
enforcement (not particularly Germany) -- is even smaller, probably
much smaller.

Also there's the issue of WHOIS and language.

Required contact information on a website would presumably be in the
owner or marketing target's local language and character set.

I don't know or don't remember what the proposed requirements vis a
vis language and character set is for (a new) WHOIS. I suppose I could
go read the proposal again.

Is that important?

There are other localization issues such as how postal addresses are
formatted or even what constitutes a satisfactory address for website
contact information by local law vs WHOIS (as proposed.)

Well, we all know this. But in terms of the website contact info is it
satisfactory to the purpose? Are you for example ok with contact info
on a website only in Tagalu or Xhosa?

As I said earlier it would be more productive to work forward from use
cases rather than various individuals' abstract notion of "contact
information".

For example is the goal to have enough information available to
initiate legal service on a domain owner? Or to market to a domain
owner? Or to just send them a Valentine's day card (N.B. tomorrow,
8/20, is Chinese Valentine's day)?

I know, all of that...easy hand-wave.

This is why I take the more deconstructed view to just ask IETF to add
a new WHOIS RR and let owners (optionally) put their info into their
DNS zones as a public-facing database perhaps with some suggestions on
format, language, etc.

And that reduces the entire problem to what is required of registries
at point of sale and update and by implication ICANN, plus access
issues.

 > Am 18.08.2015 um 19:50 schrieb Barry Shein:
 > > On August 18, 2015 at 15:26 vgreimann at key-systems.net (Volker Greimann) wrote:
 > >   >
 > >   > So there is absolutely no need for whois in Europe.
 > >
 > > (IF the domain is associated with a website?)
 > >
 > > So make WHOIS just a DNS record maintained by the domain owner however
 > > they see fit, or not.
 > >
 > > If someone finds that inadequate they can proceed with whatever they
 > > would do to obtain customer records from any company in any situation
 > > such as request the records from the source.
 > >
 > > For DNS that's a registrar or ICANN, but for a phone number for
 > > example that would be the phone company or source of the phone number
 > > -- if found in a newspaper ask the newspaper if they have more contact
 > > information for an advertiser and would they be willing to share that
 > > information.
 > >
 > > Other sources likely exist, try googling the domain name for its owner
 > > or search sources such as corporate listings or legal cases.
 > >
 > > And if that response is inadequate to their needs seek authority from
 > > a court of competent jurisdiction or similar (trade regulator, etc.)
 > > to compel disclosure from whomever one sees as a potentially
 > > productive source.
 > >
 > > I keep coming back to the question of what are the use cases for
 > > WHOIS?
 > >
 > > Not just "to find the owner of a domain", but for what purposes and
 > > how and why that should be supported? And to what level of (enforced)
 > > quality?
 > >
 > 
 > -- 
 > Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
 > 
 > Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
 > 
 > Volker A. Greimann
 > - Rechtsabteilung -
 > 
 > Key-Systems GmbH
 > Im Oberen Werk 1
 > 66386 St. Ingbert
 > Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
 > Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
 > Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
 > 
 > Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
 > www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
 > 
 > Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
 > www.facebook.com/KeySystems
 > www.twitter.com/key_systems
 > 
 > Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
 > Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
 > Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
 > 
 > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
 > www.keydrive.lu
 > 
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 > 
 > --------------------------------------------
 > 
 > Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
 > 
 > Best regards,
 > 
 > Volker A. Greimann
 > - legal department -
 > 
 > Key-Systems GmbH
 > Im Oberen Werk 1
 > 66386 St. Ingbert
 > Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
 > Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
 > Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
 > 
 > Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
 > www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
 > 
 > Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
 > www.facebook.com/KeySystems
 > www.twitter.com/key_systems
 > 
 > CEO: Alexander Siffrin
 > Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
 > V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
 > 
 > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
 > www.keydrive.lu
 > 
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