[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed approach for reviewing public comments
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Mon Jul 20 14:21:04 UTC 2015
They could probably read as such, but considering the legal risks that a
provider faces as the public face of the RNH, such a proposal would have
a severe impact on the exonomic and legal realities of existing services
to an extent that I do not believe we would come to consensus on that
interpretation.
We can of course devote (part of) a session to discussing the comments
in that context, of course.
Volker
Am 20.07.2015 um 16:16 schrieb Williams, Todd:
>
> But the Initial Report also provides that:
>
> “Nothing in this document prevents a Service Provider from adopting
> and implementing policies to publish the contact details of Customers
> in Whois, or to terminate privacy and proxy service to a Customer, for
> breach of Service Provider’s published Terms of Service, or on other
> grounds stated in the published Terms of Service, even if the criteria
> outlined in this document for a Request have not been met.”
>
> (Initial Report at 85).
>
> Why would the comments not be read as references to that as well?
>
> *From:*Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2015 10:09 AM
> *To:* Williams, Todd; James Gannon; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed
> approach for reviewing public comments
>
> Interpretation of the comments by looking at the context. The comments
> should be viewed in the context of this PDP which deals with proposed
> changes to the way these services operate, as well as the report which
> proposes a more loose reveal requirements not requiring a court order.
> In fact, one of the proposals specifically calls for a reveal
> requirement that does not necessitate a court order.
>
> So clearly, the comments should be read as references to that.
>
> Volker
>
>
> Am 20.07.2015 um 14:55 schrieb Williams, Todd:
>
> Thanks James and Volker. I’m curious how you interpret the
> comments to get to (a) rather than (b). The language from many of
> the comments is “No one’s personal information should be revealed
> without a court order.” How is that not almost verbatim to (b)?
>
> *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *James
> Gannon
> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2015 6:50 AM
> *To:* Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed
> approach for reviewing public comments
>
> Agreed Volker I would put my analysis in set A aswell.
>
> -James
>
> *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Volker
> Greimann
> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2015 11:37 AM
> *To:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed
> approach for reviewing public comments
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> these comments can be read in different ways:
>
> a) ICANN should not implement policy that requires disclosure
> without a court order, or
> b) no disclosure should be allowed without a court order.
>
> I tend to interpret the comments as being in the a) column.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
> Am 17.07.2015 um 21:42 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
>
> No, James, we should certainly consider those concerns but not
> necessarily change the report.
>
> The single concern raised more often than any other, I am
> positive, is that proxy services should not be permitted to
> disclose any information on their customer without a court
> order. That is not a standard that your service or any other
> that I know of can meet. We can change our report to make
> that a requirement for privacy/proxy service providers.
> Should we?
>
> Steve
>
> *From:*James M. Bladel [mailto:jbladel at godaddy.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 3:35 PM
> *To:* Metalitz, Steven
> *Cc:* Kathy Kleiman; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed
> approach for reviewing public comments
>
> Steve:
>
> With respect, if several thousand commenters raised issues
> that concern them, but are not addressed by our report, the
> our focus should be on changing the report, not discounting
> the comments.
>
> Thank you,
>
> J.
>
> ____________
>
> James Bladel
>
> GoDaddy
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2015, at 21:20, Metalitz, Steven <met at msk.com
> <mailto:met at msk.com>> wrote:
>
> I am all in favor of people identifying topics they
> believe need to be addressed by the WG. However, Kathy, I
> have to disagree with your premise, which is that the ten
> thousand plus comments reflect responses to our questions
> or even statements of agreement or disagreement to our
> consensus positions or report proposals. A much smaller
> (though still significant) number of comments do that, and
> those should be our top priority for review and response.
> But the vast majority of comments clearly are not
> responses to our report. These mass comments raise a very
> limited number of issues, which I don’t think we will that
> much difficulty dealing with once we have addressed the
> responses to our questions and the reasoned statements of
> agreement or disagreement with specific proposals we have
> made.
>
> Let’s get started on the more substantive comments,
> starting with the questions we did pose. We have subteams
> forming to start to tackle that, and the staff (and
> Graeme!) are providing some tools to try to help
> facilitate that. For those who don’t wish to join
> subteams, again, I agree it would be useful to identify
> (as you put it) the “major issues and concerns” that you
> find in the comments, with citations to those comments
> that you believe raise those major issues and concerns.
>
> Steve
>
> *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Kathy Kleiman
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2015 6:34 PM
> *To:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A slightly revised proposed
> approach for reviewing public comments
>
> Hi Don, Steve, Graeme, Mary and all WG members,
> I would like recommend that we take a slightly different
> approach. We received over ten thousand comments, many
> coming from those who do not ordinarily participate in the
> ICANN process. They wrote to us us not only in response to
> our specific questions, but also to share agreement (and
> disagreement) to our consensus positions/report proposals,
> and to explain why proxy/privacy registrations are
> important to them. There has been a huge outpouring
> particularly on the last issue.
>
> While a few topics for cataloging these comments were
> presented on the call, with great respect, I do not think
> we have dealt with or cataloged all of the major issues
> and concerns raised by the comments yet. Before we leap
> forward to subteams and analysis, shouldn't we ask
> further, in writing, and with the whole of the WG
> participating -- have we gotten the topics right? Have we
> created sufficient topics to allow us to catalog the broad
> range of information, concerns and comments shared with us
> by so many commenters?
>
> I would like to request that we be able to take big
> breath, and a slightly (only slightly!) different
> approach. In preparation for Tuesday's call, could we all
> skim the comments -- with our array of expertise, insight,
> knowledge of aspects of our commenter base -- to come up
> with topics that we think the WG should evaluate in tour
> review? Perhaps if we can circulate the topics online, and
> then discuss them on Tuesday.
>
> Then we discuss how these topics/this substance might be
> overlaid on the subteam process laid out below and shared
> for the first time on last week's call. We will then have
> both substance and process! And we will know that we have
> considered all of the major issues arising from these
> important comments.
>
> If we go forward now without this evaluation, I fear we
> may be missing much of what the comments have to offer.
>
> Best and tx,
> Kathy
>
>
> *From:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Mary Wong
>
>
>
> *Sent:*14 July 2015 23:50
> *To:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] A proposed approach for
> reviewing public comments
>
> Dear WG members,
>
> Following from the WG call earlier today, the co-chairs
> and staff after some consultation would like to propose
> the following approach for your consideration:
>
> _1. Use of Sub Teams for Specific Topics_:
>
> * Sub-teams comprising a few WG volunteers each can be
> formed to do the initial review of public comments
> received on the three topics suggested by Steve on the
> call, i.e. (1) Section 1.3.2 of the Initial Report (on
> escalation of relay requests and the handling of
> disclosure/publication requests from third parties
> other than IP rights holders); (2) Section 1.3.3 (on
> the open question regarding online financial
> transactions); and (3) Annex E (the Illustrative
> Disclosure Framework).
> * To assist the WG evaluate the usefulness of sub teams,
> a sub team for Section 1.3.2 can be formed first and
> serve as a “test case” for the exercise.
> * As outlined on the call, a sub team will do a “first
> pass” through a template, based on the Public Comment
> Review Tool, that staff will populate with all the
> input received on that particular issue. The sub team
> will report back to the full WG in a timely fashion,
> including suggesting a WG response and/or proposed
> action in relation to the comments received.
> * Sub teams may elect to do their work via email and
> online tools (e.g. Google Docs or a wiki page), with
> or without supplemental conference calls. Any calls
> will be recorded and transcribed for transparency
> purposes, and drafts and other documents prepared
> using online tools will also be made available to the
> full WG. (Do note, however, that depending on call
> scheduling and timing, staff support may not be
> available for all requested calls if several sub teams
> are used concurrently.)
>
> *PLEASE VOLUNTEER FOR SUB TEAM 1.3.2 IF YOU ARE INTERESTED
> IN ASSISTING WITH THIS INITIAL REVIEW. *Staff will
> endeavor to provide the template tool for 1.3.2 to the sub
> team as soon as possible, hopefully by Monday.
>
> _2. Full WG Review of Other Comments to Continue in Parallel_:
>
> * Staff will “collapse” (per James’ suggestion on the
> call) all those template responses received that were
> simply a Yes or No answer to a question, without any
> further comment added – these will be reflected in the
> Public Comment Review Tool accordingly, as a single
> collective entry. The current Tool (covering
> Preliminary Recommendations 1 through 9) will be
> updated in time for the WG to begin this review on the
> next call.
>
> _3. Collated Information_:
>
> * In addition to the updated spreadsheet just circulated
> by Graeme, we can also send you archived mail files of
> the contributions received to the public comment
> forum, should you or your group wish to conduct
> searches through each comment yourselves.
>
> We hope the above will be helpful in facilitating good
> progress on the work to be done in preparation for the
> Final Report.
>
> Thanks and cheers
>
> Mary
>
> Mary Wong
>
> Senior Policy Director
>
> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
>
> Telephone: +1 603 574 4889
>
> Email: mary.wong at icann.org <mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>
>
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>
> Volker A. Greimann
>
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
>
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> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
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> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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>
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Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
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Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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