[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 03 March 2015 at 1500 UTC

Nathalie Peregrine nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
Tue Mar 3 17:04:48 UTC 2015

Dear All,

Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 03 March 2015 at 15:00 UTC. at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-03mar15-en.mp3

On page:


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:



Frank Michlick – Individual

Justin Macy - BC

Val Sherman – IPC

Griffin Barnett – IPC

Kathy Kleiman – NCSG

Darcy Southwell – RrSG

Todd Williams – IPC

David Heasley - IPC

Chris Pelling - RrSG

Steve Metalitz - IPC

Graeme Bunton – RrSG

Jim Bikoff - IPC
Michele Neylon- RrSG

Holly Raiche – ALAC

Vicky Scheckler – IPC

Kiran Malancharuvil – IPC

David Cake – NCSG

Volker Greimann – RrSG

 Alex Deacon –IPC

Sarah Wyld – RrSG
Carlton Samuels – ALAC
Stephanie Perrin – NCSG
Susan Prosser - RrSG

Apologies :

Don Blumenthal – RySG

James Bladel - RrSG

ICANN staff:

Marika Konings

Mary Wong

Nathalie Peregrine

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:

Wiki page:


Thank you.

Kind regards,



 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 03 March 2015

 Nathalie  Peregrine:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 03 March 2015

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Hello all!
  Nathalie  Peregrine:@ Holly, the operator is dialing out to you now
  Holly Raiche:Morning all
  Val S:Hello all! David Heasley also on audio bridge.
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Perfect audio
  Nathalie  Peregrine:noted Val!
  Chris Pelling:Good  afternoon all
  Chris Pelling:can the document be unlocked please
  Chris Pelling:so we can zoom in ? :)
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Done, Chris
  Chris Pelling:thanks :)
  Frank Michlick:It's warm here in florida ;-)
  Frank Michlick:But I'm heading back to Monreal on Thursday
  Frank Michlick:montreal
  Graeme Bunton:I spent last week in Mexico, and that was much much nicer than home
  Kathy Kleiman:Switchboard working well - I got in quickly...
  Frank Michlick:nice, I've never been to Mexico yet
  Vicky sheckler:hi
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Extra apology from James Bladel
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Phil Corwin has joined the call
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Stephanie Perrin has joined the call
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Darcy Southwell is on the audio bridge
  Stephanie Perrin:Apologies for tardiness
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Darcy has now joined the AC room
  Michele Neylon:ALLEGED
  Michele Neylon::)
  Holly Raiche:Agre with Michele (and Kathy) - add ALLEGED
  Stephanie Perrin:Ditto.
  Michele Neylon:that was me twice
  Michele Neylon:though I'm sure Kathy would agree
  Kathy Kleiman:Tx for clarification III D, Steve!
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Sorry I'm late, hello everyone.
  Justin Macy:Great thanks!
  Mary Wong:Other groups of requestors identified included LEA (as Michele is saying) and groups like anti-phishing or consumer protection groups.
  Michele Neylon:he has spoken previously ..
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Agree with Dick.  He shouldn't be restricted to speaking only on LE requests.
  Volker G.:Hi Dick, the problem is how do we differentiate between "good LEA" and "bad LEA"
  Holly Raiche:Agree with Michele - the difficult issue is the reveal issue when access is not sought in relation to criminal matters
  Kathy Kleiman:@ Mary: will it be possible to post my comments in the Adobe?
  Michele Neylon:LEA can contact An Garda Siochana and they'll get a request to us we can act on
  Volker G.:Michele, you see why they think this is difficult: most outsiders will not even be able to spell that... ;-)
  dick leaning:we will need to go with Interpols members - 190 or so i think will be a start
  Michele Neylon:Volker and that's my problem why? :)
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Carlton Samuels has joined the call
  Mary Wong:For non-US WG members, the DMCA is the US statute that deals with requests to online service providers to take down allegedly infringing copyrighted content
  Carlton Samuels:Howdy all. My apologies for late coming in. Unavoidably delayed
  Mary Wong:There is similar legislation in a number of other countries.
  Michele Neylon:not in all unfortunately
  Michele Neylon:there's nothing in Ireland
  Mary Wong:@Michele, yes - it's not a universal scheme
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Do gangs have trademark attorneys?  (untapped client base??)
  Stephanie Perrin:@Kiran, absolutely, and lots of money to pay for them!
  Michele Neylon:Kiran - don't you watch "The Good Wife"? the drug dealer in that can afford very nice suits and expensive lawyers
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I wonder if anyone every TM'd "the crip side"
  Kiran Malancharuvil:@Michele - I don't watch TV!
  Stephanie Perrin:I understand they settle their tattoo wars here in Canada rather differently, without the aid of lawyers....
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Susan Prosser has joined the call
  Michele Neylon:Kiran - did I mention TV? :)
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Well... to clarify, I haven't seen "The Good Wife" !
  Mary Wong:@Todd, I believe your read is the intended interpretation.
  Mary Wong:(i.e. while the Customer must state its reasons for not wanting disclosure the Provider is not obliged to pass that on or to do so verbatim - although it may.)
  Mary Wong:On Section 512(h) of the DMCA - although a requestor is obliged to seek a subpoena from a court, the court does not have discretion to investigate or refuse/
  Kathy Kleiman:@Todd and Mary: language clarification would be great!
  Carlton Samuels:@Speaker: In this context when it comes to privacy and disclosure it must be for the 'fringe' that takes pride of place!
  Kathy Kleiman:@Graeme: agreed!  Plus "safety valve" is a new term and concept -- one to think about
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I think we need to be careful about building processes that are built around a very minute minority of cases.
  steve metalitz:@Stephanie, as a matter of historical fact, Whois has been publicly accessible since its inception.
  Kathy Kleiman:@Kiran, due process for majority and minority cases is never a waste of time.... as I truly believe you agree
  Stephanie Perrin:Steve, I certainly understand that the directory is public, but the data elements may not be.  THat is the issue.
  Kiran Malancharuvil:Not a waste of time, I NEVER said that, but we can't build a process on a hypothetical outlying case.
  Carlton Samuels:If the process developed is fair to the 'fringe' then I would consider all others as adequately covered
  Carlton Samuels:@Holly:  I agree.  There was a time 'compelling' meant 'clear and present danger' is anticipated.
  Kathy Kleiman:hnjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjgvbbbbbbbbb
  Kathy Kleiman:Sorry, cat on the keyboard :-)
  Holly Raiche:@ Carlton - the issue now is whether it could mean issues involving trade marks!
  Vicky sheckler:the fact is that whois has been public since its inception. very diffferent than other cases where the inofrmation was never public
  Kiran Malancharuvil:@Kathy - same thing when Lily is on the call with me!  ;)
  Holly Raiche:@ Kathy - so your cat is participating :)
  Kiran Malancharuvil:WHATTTTTTTTTTTTT
  Kiran Malancharuvil:SHOCKING
  Kathy Kleiman:@Holly, yes!
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I'm framing that page of the transcript.
  Kathy Kleiman:+1 Carlton: "fair to the fringe" is also how US speech law operates...
  Volker G.:whois was intended as a technical service, not a general information service. Sysadmins would use it to find other sysadmins if something did not work right.
  Carlton Samuels:@Michele: +1. Too much on the provider and it makes the decision to terminate that much easier.
  Stephanie Perrin:What Michele said is precisely my concern.  The cost is not sufficient to guard against abuse, therefore there needs to be third party review paid separately.
  Vicky sheckler:we need to be aiming for a simple process to obtain contact information where there is reasonable basis for the request, with appropriate safeguards to prevent abuse
  Kiran Malancharuvil:@Vicky - correct and simply stated
  Holly Raiche:@ Carlton - agree. And at Vicki - the trick is working out what is a 'reasonable basis'
  Frank Michlick:Keep in mind that anything that increases cost for registrars will increase cost for consumers. Most registrars have very low margins when it comes to domain name reigistrations. Some (i.e. Tucows) that have not charged for whois privacy in the past have started doing so over the last year or so.
  Frank Michlick:So the question is what additional value or protection it creates compared to the cost of doing so and if that's reasonable.
  Kathy Kleiman:@Graeme: can I ask Michele a quest?
  Vicky sheckler:agree w/ michele that this can't be too complicated
  steve metalitz:@Graeme, David Hughes (not on Adobe) asks fto be in queue.
  Graeme Bunton:Got it
  Mary Wong:@Kathy, IIIB gives the provider some options/discretion in deciding which response is appropriate. There does not seem to be a default disclosure requriement.
  Todd Williams:Lowered my hand because Mary just made the point I was going to make on IIIB.
  Graeme Bunton:Thanks Todd
  Kathy Kleiman:Who is talking?
  Mary Wong:David Heasley
  Val S:David Hughes
  Mary Wong:Oops, sorry, Hughes!
  Kathy Kleiman:@Mary and All, then we should certainly clarity that  disclosure for default (when political minorities, religious minorities, ethnic etc. ) is not an automatic loss and Reveal
  Carlton Samuels:@David: You're looking for a solution between "Do nothing" and "Wait for the judge"?
  Stephanie Perrin:And you expect that to be easy?
  steve metalitz:@Carlton, David Hughes is not on Adobe.
  Kathy Kleiman:@Carlton and earlier: "fringe" is key - because that is where they political and minority groups live (and yes, they use, criticize and critque trademarks and trademark owners)
  Holly Raiche:@Carlton - Agree - it's about what, in Vicki's erm, is reasonable, or in the words of the draft is 'copelling'
  Kathy Kleiman:But the Friday after, we are sleepwalking....
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I have to drop off.  Thanks so much everyone!
  Kathy Kleiman:The IGO F2F was hard because we were soo tired
  Kathy Kleiman:(Singapore
  Michele Neylon:I'd prefer the Friday before
  Michele Neylon:or even over the weekend
  Holly Raiche:@Stephannie - ALAC Exec meets Friday morning - but free in the afernoon
  Kiran Malancharuvil:I won't be able to add dates to my travel to BA.
  Michele Neylon:but the Friday after for me simply doesn't work
  Mary Wong:Note that we do need to confirm this soon as Constituency Travel is starting to set deadlines for nominations of supported travelers.
  dick leaning:am with Michele - Friday before please
  Darcy Southwell:F2F the Friday or weekend before ICANN 53 makes more sense to me.
  Holly Raiche:Friday before really is beter
  Val S:+1 - Friday before is better
  Stephanie Perrin:GNSO is on the weekend...either Friday before, or after....
  Philip Corwin:Also would prefer Friday prior, rather than after
  Chris Pelling:from a remote pov, friday before is better certainly
  Chris Pelling:doodle poll
  Frank Michlick:Thank you everyone. I probably won't be in Buenos Aires, so I may only participate remotely.
  Stephanie Perrin:Anyone for Thursday before?
  Michele Neylon:Doodle it
  Frank Michlick:Thank you everyone.
  Michele Neylon:Stephanie I could do the Thursday before *possibly* not sure
  Mary Wong:Will do, thanks
  Val S:thanks all
  Stephanie Perrin:Thanks Graeme
  Chris Pelling:Thanks Graeme
  Carlton Samuels:Thanks Graeme. Bye all
  David Cake:thanks all

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