[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc

Kathy Kleiman kathy at kathykleiman.com
Mon Mar 23 22:14:57 UTC 2015

I forgot to add that John Berryhill would like to join us tomorrow. He 
can speak from very direct experience to the difference between working 
with "agents" of a copyright and trademark owner, or the 
trademark/copyright owners and attorney directly. I think it will be 
valuable insight - and inform our important discussion!


> Hi Kiran,
> Thank you for your comments. The agency issue worries some of us 
> greatly.  By what authority is the "agency" established; what actual 
> knowledge of the a) trademark or copyright owner's rights are there, 
> b) by what expertise can he/she make an assessment of infringement and 
> c) by what right, ability or authority can the signatory bind the 
> trademark or copyright owner to the allegations being made.
> I should note that the proposed changes follow the DMCA: for a Reveal 
> Subpoena, the request must be done by an attorney for the Requester or 
> by the Requester himself/herself/itself (in the US we call it "pro se").
> Best,
> Kathy
> :
>> Hi Kathy,
>> Thanks for forwarding this to the group, and special thanks for 
>> forwarding with enough time to review before the call!
>> We can certainly discuss in more depth on the call tomorrow, but I am 
>> not a fan of the changes in Section II.  I'm concerned about the 
>> level of minutiae in the language, and I'm wondering how and why that 
>> level of micromanagement will be helpful/probative information to the 
>> Service Provider.  In very large companies, the trademark 
>> owner/president/VP/partner, etc. isn't actually involved directly in 
>> the enforcement activity. It should be enough to demonstrate agency, 
>> as the previous language did.
>> Perhaps I will have more later, but I wanted to float that to the 
>> group before the call.
>> Thanks,
>> Kiran
>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>> Policy Counselor
>> MarkMonitor
>> 415.222.8318 (t)
>> 415.419.9138 (m)
>> www.markmonitor.com
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman
>> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:19 AM
>> To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org; Metalitz, Steven; Graeme Bunton
>> Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc
>> Hi All,
>> Steve and I talked on Friday, and he asked me to circulate a Revised 
>> Reveal document -- which is attached.  This document has three types 
>> of changes based on our discussion last Tuesday and subsequent research:
>> 1. To the title (reset pending further discussion) 2. To Section II, 
>> the Request Templates to clarify the requester and his/her direct 
>> knowledge of the alleged infringement and legal authority to 
>> represent the Requester, and 3. Annex (reset to original pending 
>> discussion with drafters over the narrow goals and intents of this 
>> section)
>> All other edits remain - to continue our excellent discussion of high 
>> standards for disclosure, human rights issues, etc. There is also 
>> much to discuss regarding follow-up processes (after the Request) 
>> including
>> a) when are appeals allowed and for whom, and b) how does a Provider 
>> challenge an alleged "wrongful disclosure" of its Customer's 
>> information?
>> Best and have a good rest of weekend,
>> Kathy

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