[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc

Graeme Bunton gbunton at tucows.com
Mon Mar 23 22:44:17 UTC 2015

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for the suggestion. There's little doubt that John would have 
some interesting, and hopefully illuminating experience in this area.
However, I think we're too close to tomorrow's call to have him join us.

I'd like to suggest that after tomorrow's call we can take stock of 
where we're at, and decide if John can help us with his insight. Once 
there, we can then extend an invitation or not as the case may be.



On 3/23/2015 6:14 PM, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
> I forgot to add that John Berryhill would like to join us tomorrow. He 
> can speak from very direct experience to the difference between 
> working with "agents" of a copyright and trademark owner, or the 
> trademark/copyright owners and attorney directly. I think it will be 
> valuable insight - and inform our important discussion!
> Best,
> Kathy
> :
>> Hi Kiran,
>> Thank you for your comments. The agency issue worries some of us 
>> greatly.  By what authority is the "agency" established; what actual 
>> knowledge of the a) trademark or copyright owner's rights are there, 
>> b) by what expertise can he/she make an assessment of infringement 
>> and c) by what right, ability or authority can the signatory bind the 
>> trademark or copyright owner to the allegations being made.
>> I should note that the proposed changes follow the DMCA: for a Reveal 
>> Subpoena, the request must be done by an attorney for the Requester 
>> or by the Requester himself/herself/itself (in the US we call it "pro 
>> se").
>> Best,
>> Kathy
>> :
>>> Hi Kathy,
>>> Thanks for forwarding this to the group, and special thanks for 
>>> forwarding with enough time to review before the call!
>>> We can certainly discuss in more depth on the call tomorrow, but I 
>>> am not a fan of the changes in Section II.  I'm concerned about the 
>>> level of minutiae in the language, and I'm wondering how and why 
>>> that level of micromanagement will be helpful/probative information 
>>> to the Service Provider.  In very large companies, the trademark 
>>> owner/president/VP/partner, etc. isn't actually involved directly in 
>>> the enforcement activity. It should be enough to demonstrate agency, 
>>> as the previous language did.
>>> Perhaps I will have more later, but I wanted to float that to the 
>>> group before the call.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kiran
>>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>>> Policy Counselor
>>> MarkMonitor
>>> 415.222.8318 (t)
>>> 415.419.9138 (m)
>>> www.markmonitor.com
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>>> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:19 AM
>>> To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org; Metalitz, Steven; Graeme Bunton
>>> Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc
>>> Hi All,
>>> Steve and I talked on Friday, and he asked me to circulate a Revised 
>>> Reveal document -- which is attached.  This document has three types 
>>> of changes based on our discussion last Tuesday and subsequent 
>>> research:
>>> 1. To the title (reset pending further discussion) 2. To Section II, 
>>> the Request Templates to clarify the requester and his/her direct 
>>> knowledge of the alleged infringement and legal authority to 
>>> represent the Requester, and 3. Annex (reset to original pending 
>>> discussion with drafters over the narrow goals and intents of this 
>>> section)
>>> All other edits remain - to continue our excellent discussion of 
>>> high standards for disclosure, human rights issues, etc. There is 
>>> also much to discuss regarding follow-up processes (after the 
>>> Request) including
>>> a) when are appeals allowed and for whom, and b) how does a Provider 
>>> challenge an alleged "wrongful disclosure" of its Customer's 
>>> information?
>>> Best and have a good rest of weekend,
>>> Kathy

Graeme Bunton
Manager, Management Information Systems
Manager, Public Policy
Tucows Inc.
PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634

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