[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc

Mary Wong mary.wong at icann.org
Mon Mar 23 23:28:19 UTC 2015

Hello - I meant to send the follow up message below to everyone, thanks!

From:  Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org>
Date:  Monday, March 23, 2015 at 19:26
To:  Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
Subject:  Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc

> Hi Stephanie and everyone,
> Others with more experience may be able to shed more light on the intent and
> history behind this provision in the WG Guidelines, but FWIW I believe the
> cost issue relates to the WG making a more formal request to the GNSO Council,
> to get an educational briefing or similar advice, e.g. from a subject matter
> expert or consultant. This could involve technical, legal or other specialty
> knowledge for which a paid opinion may be appropriate. However, the provision
> also permits a WG to seek input from “self formed groups and/or individuals”
> on a more informal basis, so my assumption is that the Guidelines provide a WG
> with the flexibility to consider which course of action would be the more
> efficacious and appropriate for its purpose.
> Cheers
> Mary
> Mary Wong
> Senior Policy Director
> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
> Telephone: +1 603 574 4892
> Email: mary.wong at icann.org
> From:  Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> Date:  Monday, March 23, 2015 at 19:16
> To:  Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org>
> Subject:  Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc
>> THanks Mary, very helpful.  Since there is no cost, my question would be, why
>> not?
>> cheers Stephanie
>> On 2015-03-23 19:11, Mary Wong wrote:
>>> Hello everyone, to follow up on Graeme¹s message, please note that Section
>>> 4.4 of the GNSO¹s Working Group Guidelines contains the following
>>> language:
>>> "If the WG determines that it needs additional educational briefings
>>> occurring upfront or as issues emerge during deliberations, it should
>>> identify its specific requests to the [Chartering Organization] including
>>> subject matter(s), type(s) of expertise, objectives, and costs. If
>>> additional costs are involved, prior approval must be obtained from the
>>> [Chartering Organization]. Additionally, a WG may, at any stage throughout
>>> its deliberations, decide to seek input from self formed groups and/or
>>> individuals with the aim of further informing WG members about matters
>>> that fall within the remit of the WG and which are of interest to the
>>> ICANN community."
>>> We hope this is helpful.
>>> Cheers
>>> Mary
>>> Mary Wong
>>> Senior Policy Director
>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
>>> Telephone: +1 603 574 4892
>>> Email: mary.wong at icann.org
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Graeme Bunton <gbunton at tucows.com> <mailto:gbunton at tucows.com>
>>> Date: Monday, March 23, 2015 at 18:44
>>> To: Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com> <mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com> ,
>>> "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org" <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>> <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org> ,
>>> "Metalitz, Steven" <met at msk.com> <mailto:met at msk.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc
>>>> Hi Kathy,
>>>> Thanks for the suggestion. There's little doubt that John would have
>>>> some interesting, and hopefully illuminating experience in this area.
>>>> However, I think we're too close to tomorrow's call to have him join us.
>>>> I'd like to suggest that after tomorrow's call we can take stock of
>>>> where we're at, and decide if John can help us with his insight. Once
>>>> there, we can then extend an invitation or not as the case may be.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Graeme
>>>> On 3/23/2015 6:14 PM, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
>>>>> I forgot to add that John Berryhill would like to join us tomorrow. He
>>>>> can speak from very direct experience to the difference between
>>>>> working with "agents" of a copyright and trademark owner, or the
>>>>> trademark/copyright owners and attorney directly. I think it will be
>>>>> valuable insight - and inform our important discussion!
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Kathy
>>>>> :
>>>>>> Hi Kiran,
>>>>>> Thank you for your comments. The agency issue worries some of us
>>>>>> greatly.  By what authority is the "agency" established; what actual
>>>>>> knowledge of the a) trademark or copyright owner's rights are there,
>>>>>> b) by what expertise can he/she make an assessment of infringement
>>>>>> and c) by what right, ability or authority can the signatory bind the
>>>>>> trademark or copyright owner to the allegations being made.
>>>>>> I should note that the proposed changes follow the DMCA: for a Reveal
>>>>>> Subpoena, the request must be done by an attorney for the Requester
>>>>>> or by the Requester himself/herself/itself (in the US we call it "pro
>>>>>> se").
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Kathy
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>> Hi Kathy,
>>>>>>> Thanks for forwarding this to the group, and special thanks for
>>>>>>> forwarding with enough time to review before the call!
>>>>>>> We can certainly discuss in more depth on the call tomorrow, but I
>>>>>>> am not a fan of the changes in Section II.  I'm concerned about the
>>>>>>> level of minutiae in the language, and I'm wondering how and why
>>>>>>> that level of micromanagement will be helpful/probative information
>>>>>>> to the Service Provider.  In very large companies, the trademark
>>>>>>> owner/president/VP/partner, etc. isn't actually involved directly in
>>>>>>> the enforcement activity. It should be enough to demonstrate agency,
>>>>>>> as the previous language did.
>>>>>>> Perhaps I will have more later, but I wanted to float that to the
>>>>>>> group before the call.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Kiran
>>>>>>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>>>>>>> Policy Counselor
>>>>>>> MarkMonitor
>>>>>>> 415.222.8318 (t)
>>>>>>> 415.419.9138 (m)
>>>>>>> www.markmonitor.com <http://www.markmonitor.com>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy
>>>>>>> Kleiman
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:19 AM
>>>>>>> To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org; Metalitz, Steven; Graeme Bunton
>>>>>>> Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>> Steve and I talked on Friday, and he asked me to circulate a Revised
>>>>>>> Reveal document -- which is attached.  This document has three types
>>>>>>> of changes based on our discussion last Tuesday and subsequent
>>>>>>> research:
>>>>>>> 1. To the title (reset pending further discussion) 2. To Section II,
>>>>>>> the Request Templates to clarify the requester and his/her direct
>>>>>>> knowledge of the alleged infringement and legal authority to
>>>>>>> represent the Requester, and 3. Annex (reset to original pending
>>>>>>> discussion with drafters over the narrow goals and intents of this
>>>>>>> section)
>>>>>>> All other edits remain - to continue our excellent discussion of
>>>>>>> high standards for disclosure, human rights issues, etc. There is
>>>>>>> also much to discuss regarding follow-up processes (after the
>>>>>>> Request) including
>>>>>>> a) when are appeals allowed and for whom, and b) how does a Provider
>>>>>>> challenge an alleged "wrongful disclosure" of its Customer's
>>>>>>> information?
>>>>>>> Best and have a good rest of weekend,
>>>>>>> Kathy
>>>> --
>>>> _________________________
>>>> Graeme Bunton
>>>> Manager, Management Information Systems
>>>> Manager, Public Policy
>>>> Tucows Inc.
>>>> PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai
>>>> -pdp-wg
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