[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Our Statement/Kiran's Statement

Fri May 1 16:33:38 UTC 2015

Fantastic.  Mary, please add the signatories mentioned (LegitScript, DomainTools, Facebook) as well as MarkMonitor (company name, not individual) “on behalf of the proponents of the transactional distinction.”

Thanks,

Kiran

From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kawaguchi
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 9:27 AM
To: Prosser, Susan; Frank Michlick
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Our Statement/Kiran's Statement

Facebook can also be added to the supplemental statement
Susan Kawaguchi
Domain Name Manager
Facebook Legal Dept.

Phone - 650 485-6064

From: <Prosser>, Susan <susan at domaintools.com<mailto:susan at domaintools.com>>
Date: Friday, May 1, 2015 at 9:12 AM
To: Frank Michlick <frank at domaincocoon.com<mailto:frank at domaincocoon.com>>
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Our Statement/Kiran's Statement

DomainTools can be added as a reference to Kiran's supplemental statement as well.

-Susan

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:14 AM, Frank Michlick <frank at domaincocoon.com<mailto:frank at domaincocoon.com>> wrote:
Kiran,

I appreciate that you were able to put this together under the time
restrictions in place. Thank you also to John Horton who added his
company name to the list.

If you cannot name companies though due to the need to get approval,
maybe you could name the individuals (or they could speak up here) that
support/worded the statement.

So far we've got:

* Kiran Malancharuvil, Internet Policy Counselor, MarkMonitor
* Legitscript

I do think that any statement included with this report should be
attributable to the supporters/authors so the reader can take the
background into account when reviewing the statements. Comments that are
not clearly attributable, could  potentially weigh less in the eye of
the reader.

@Staff: Is there a way for you to include the authors/proponents in a
statement after its submission?

Best regards,
/Frank
--
Registrar Consultant - DomainCocoon Inc.

On 2015-05-01 9:34 AM, Kiran Malancharuvil wrote:
> They are referenced as we had time to reference them in the submission.
>
> Keep in mind that we are, for the most part not individuals, but companies and constituencies. Using company names is not feasible when we are given two days to seek approval for a consolidated statement.
>
> If you want to know who was a proponent of this distinction, you can go back to transcripts and the list to parse out that information.
>
> K
>
> Kiran Malancharuvil
> Internet Policy Counselor
> MarkMonitor
> 415-419-9138<tel:415-419-9138> (m)
>
> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>
>> On May 1, 2015, at 6:30 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Kiran
>>
>> So who are the proponents of this position and how should they be referenced?
>>
>> In the case of Kathy & Co they are named clearly in the submission
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Michele
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>> http://www.blacknight.host/
>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>> http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
>> http://www.technology.ie
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072>
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>
>> Social: http://mneylon.social
>> Random Stuff: http://michele.irish
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 01/05/2015 04:47, "Kiran Malancharuvil" <Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com<mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Incidentally, I would note that the characterization of the statement as "Kirans statement" is incorrect. As stated before in several messes and as made clear in the text, the statement is from the proponents of the transactional distinction.
>>>
>>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>>> Internet Policy Counselor
>>> MarkMonitor
>>> 415-419-9138<tel:415-419-9138> (m)
>>>
>>> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>>>
>>>> On Apr 30, 2015, at 8:19 PM, Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We will reflect this change in the final text, thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>> Mary Wong
>>>> Senior Policy Director
>>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
>>>> Telephone: +1 603 574 4892<tel:%2B1%20603%20574%204892>
>>>> Email: mary.wong at icann.org<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Kiran Malancharuvil <Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com<mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com>>
>>>> Date: Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 22:30
>>>> To: Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>>
>>>> Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Our Statement/Kiran's Statement
>>>>
>>>>> We changed that to "these members of the PPSAI working group."
>>>>>
>>>>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>>>>> Internet Policy Counselor
>>>>> MarkMonitor
>>>>> 415-419-9138<tel:415-419-9138> (m)
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 30, 2015, at 7:26 PM, Kathy Kleiman
>>>>> <kathy at kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com><mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>> Thanks, but I think the "and" is correct and I would leave "as is."
>>>>>
>>>>> What I do object to though, is the conclusion of Kiran's statement which,
>>>>> although a Minority Statement, represents itself [as soliciting input on
>>>>> behalf of the entire PPSAI WG.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve, Graeme and Mary,
>>>>> I strongly request a change of "The PPSAI Working Group therefore desires
>>>>> public comment" to "The drafters of this supplemental statement desire
>>>>> public comment..."
>>>>>   (current text) "The PPSAI Working Group therefore desires public
>>>>> comment on the issue of encouraging transparent, non-anonymous WHOIS data
>>>>> for persons and entities engaged in active transactional commercial
>>>>> activity and provides the above-referenced white
>>>>> paper<https://www.legitscript.com/download/White_Paper_-_Commercial_Use_-_
>>>>> Jurisdictional_Analysis-May_11_2014.pdf> as background for consideration."
>>>>> We (as a whole WG) desire public comment on the issue as framed in the
>>>>> main report.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please confirm that this will change because Kiran's statement speaks
>>>>> only for its group.
>>>>> Tx,
>>>>> Kathy
>>>>> :
>>>>> Hi Kathy,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this. No objection here. One clarification: Is "mothers and
>>>>> seniors" accurate, or should it be "mothers or seniors"? I think the way
>>>>> it is currently written, someone could interpret you to be talking about
>>>>> mothers who are also senior citizens, which can certainly be true in the
>>>>> literal sense, but I believe that your intent is to be broader and note
>>>>> that while some home-based business are (impliedly) merely run by men or
>>>>> young folk, that some home-based businesses are run by mothers, while
>>>>> others are run by seniors, irrespective of their gender. I just wonder if
>>>>> the disjunctive might be better than the conjunctive in this particular
>>>>> case?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> John Horton
>>>>> President and CEO, LegitScript
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow LegitScript:
>>>>> LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com>  |
>>>>> Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript>  |
>>>>> Twitter<https://twitter.com/legitscript>  |
>>>>> YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitScript>  |
>>>>> Blog<http://blog.legitscript.com>  |
>>>>> Google+<https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Kathy Kleiman
>>>>> <kathy at kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com><mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>>> wrote:
>>>>> Dear Graeme, Steve, Mary and All,
>>>>> Attached please find our supplemental statement for inclusion in the
>>>>> Interim Report. Mary, could you please use the attached Word version as
>>>>> it has the formatting and highlights we seek to show in the published
>>>>> version.
>>>>>
>>>>> I include a pasted version below for easy reading.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Kathy
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -------
>>>>> Statement of Kathy Kleiman, James Gannon and Stephanie Perrin, Members of
>>>>> the Noncommercial Stakeholders Group
>>>>>
>>>>> We respectfully submit that Section 1.3.3, 1.3.3, Specific Topics on
>>>>> which there is currently no consensus within the WG, of this PPSAI
>>>>> Executive Summary and Interim Report is incomplete.  There are a number
>>>>> of topics on which there is currently no consensus within the WG and
>>>>> which need considerable work. These are issues well known and deeply
>>>>> discussed.
>>>>> For the purposes of clarity and to lend depth to the comments and
>>>>> discussion to come, we submit this statement of how we would like to see
>>>>> Section 1.3.3 written.
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>>> 1.3.3, Specific Topics on which there is currently no consensus within
>>>>> the WG
>>>>> 1.3.3.1 REVEAL
>>>>> The WG¹s has not yet reached final preliminary conclusions on key details
>>>>> of its ³Reveal² recommendations (See Annex E of the Interim Report).
>>>>> There are many details still under discussion and for which the WG has
>>>>> not reached consensus. These include:
>>>>>
>>>>> -          What remedies should a Customer be allowed in the event that a
>>>>> Reveal Request was falsely made or the data was improperly used (current
>>>>> recommendations provide mechanism only for Provider action)?
>>>>>
>>>>> -          Should Requestors be allowed to escalate each and every
>>>>> rejection of a Reveal Request to a 3rd party forum, or should the WG seek
>>>>> to adopt reasonable standards and thresholds for such appeals to avoid
>>>>> unnecessary and time-consuming appeals?  (Note: a Request for
>>>>> Reconsideration is already a part of the recommended process the WG has
>>>>> agreed to by consensus.)
>>>>>
>>>>> -          What rights and protections should a Customer be allowed and
>>>>> encouraged to forth in her/his/its own defense to provide a reasonable
>>>>> defense for maintaining her/his/its privacy, even in the face of a
>>>>> copyright or trademark infringement allegation?
>>>>>
>>>>> -          How can Customers be protected from extraterritorial requests
>>>>> from Law Enforcement from outside their country, when the use of their
>>>>> domain name is for legal purposes in their own country, but perhaps
>>>>> purposes deemed illegal in other countries [Note: even Interpol refuses
>>>>> to act across national lines in matters of political, military, religious
>>>>> and racial issues because of the enormous differences of law. Article 3,
>>>>> Interpol Constitution]
>>>>> Input and comments would be helpful on these issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.3.3.2 THE COMPLEXITIES OF INTRUDING INTO NATIONAL LAW
>>>>> Although the WG agreed that the mere fact that a domain name is
>>>>> registered by a commercial entity or by anyone conducting commercial
>>>>> activity should not preclude the use of P/P services[1][1], there was
>>>>> disagreement over whether domain names that are actively used for
>>>>> commercial transactions (e.g. the sale or exchange of goods or services)
>>>>> should be prohibited from using P/P services.
>>>>> While most WG members did not believe such a prohibition is necessary or
>>>>> practical, some members believed that registrants of such domain names
>>>>> should not be able to use or continue using proxy or privacy services. [1]
>>>>> Other members of the WG noted that fundraising and membership drives are
>>>>> often performed by the very groups and organizations seeking
>>>>> privacy/proxy registration for protection, including minority political
>>>>> groups, minority religious organizations, ethnic groups, organizations
>>>>> committed to change of racial policies, gender orientation groups, and
>>>>> publications engaged in freedom of expression. These groups and their
>>>>> representatives note that, in the laws of their countries, the mere
>>>>> collection of a donation or membership fee does not change their status
>>>>> from ³non-commercial² to commercial. Others noted that ³non-profit²
>>>>> status is limited to only a few countries.
>>>>> Further, many of organizations, small businesses, home-based businesses
>>>>> (including those run by mothers and seniors) conduct their financial
>>>>> transactions through 3rd party e-commerce companies, such as PayPal, and
>>>>> thus are not processing the financial transactions directly. Accordingly,
>>>>> many members in the WG submit there is no reason to breach the
>>>>> proxy/privacy of organizations and businesses purely and solely for this
>>>>> reason.
>>>>> Many members many in the WG submit that content regulation is far beyond
>>>>> the scope of ICANN and properly the scope of national laws  some of
>>>>> which has taken initiatives in this area which are clearly defined and
>>>>> properly limited in scope and application (e.g., Germany).
>>>>> For those that argued that it is necessary and practical to limit access
>>>>> to P/P services to exclude commercial entities, the following text was
>>>>> proposed to clarify and define their position: ³domains used for online
>>>>> financial transactions for commercial purpose should be ineligible for
>>>>> privacy and proxy registrations.²
>>>>> This suggestion has been debated strongly by the members of the WG and
>>>>> has not reached consensus as others submitted that:
>>>>> "Attempting to distinguish the end purposes of a domain registration is
>>>>> not practicable for the purposes of determining eligibility for
>>>>> privacy/proxy services, and will unfairly discriminate against vulnerable
>>>>> groups, entrepreneurs, small businesses and organizations who wish to
>>>>> exercise their rights of freedom of expression rights on the Internet.
>>>>> Input requested on the full issues, including questions below:
>>>>> €        Should registrants of domain names associated with commercial
>>>>> activities and which are used for online financial transactions be
>>>>> prohibited from using, or continuing to use, privacy and proxy services?
>>>>> €        Is this type of content regulation outside of ICANN's scope and
>>>>> mandate and the proper province of national law?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] The WG notes that the WHOIS RT had specifically acknowledged that P/P
>>>>> services can be and are used to address legitimate interests, both
>>>>> commercial and non-commercial.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org><mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org><mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg
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