[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed language concerning lawyers and P/P services

Wed Oct 21 09:13:19 UTC 2015

Also some registrars take orders over the phone, via email, fax, physical letter and in person
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From: <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Graeme Bunton
Date: Wednesday 21 October 2015 at 9:49 a.m.
To: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>"
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed language concerning lawyers and P/P services

Hi Kathy,

This will need a bit of work to accomodate different Registrar models.  Tucows for instance is primarily wholesale, and the vast majority of our registrations aren't via our website, but through that of one of our resellers.  It could be as simple as Registrars will not take registrations using proxy/privacy service providers who are not accredited through the process we have created.
Though,  that's more or less where I thought we were.

Graeme

On 2015-10-20 4:21 PM, Kathy Kleiman wrote:
All,
I think we may be going down a slightly misplaced path. The problem is the premise: the concept that registrars will not take registrations from unaffiliated p/p providers. We can begin the process of creating carve-outs, but that's a long path: web designers, children registering domain names for parents, parents registering domain names for school organizations don't even know they will be considered unaccredited providers.

Why don't define much more precisely what we mean and have discussed throughout our 2 years of work: that Registrars will not take registrations on their websites (using their DN registration systems) using proxy/privacy service providers who are not accredited through the process we have created.

Third parties such as attorneys, web designers, people registering domain names for their clubs, organizations and service groups will not need to be accredited by ICANN at this point in time. If they did, they would be in front of us, like the lawyers, arguing for an exception.

Best,
Kathy

On 10/20/2015 10:11 AM, McGrady, Paul D. wrote:

Unfortunately, it isn't possible to buy into the fictional premise  that attorneys and privacy/proxy services are fungible, which premise underpins these arguments that ICANN should meddle in the attorney-client relationship.

-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Novoa, Osvaldo
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 7:51 AM
To: Stephanie Perrin
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed language concerning lawyers and P/P services

+1
If our recommendations leave any type of p/p provider out, our work would have been for nothing.
Either we just leave p/p services open to everybody or we go over all our work and see what should be change in order not to infringe on the attorney/client relationship, so that we have one set of regulations for all the p/p service providers.  This point has been discussed inside our constituency and my position reflects the ISPCP stand.
Best regards,
Osvaldo

El 20 oct. 2015, a las 12:36 p.m., Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca><mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca><mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> escribió:

I don't find this wording acceptable.  Firstly, we had several rounds of discussion on this in the Working group, it sounds in this formulation as if it had not come up in the working group.
Secondly, we are not proposing that ICANN regulate attorney client relationships.  Are we not regulating Privacy Proxy service providers?  If lawyers are P/P providers, I see no reason to exempt them.  Thirdly, the issue of whether lawyers will become the major tool for criminals to escape (or delay significantly, almost as good) revelation of their identities is huge and is well within our remit to discuss.  If indeed having a special class of unregulated PP providers does indeed drive traffic to the lawyers it makes our efforts somewhat in vain.  I will leave it to the PP providers present to make the argument about unfair competition.
Cheers Stephanie

On 2015-10-19 11:33, Mary Wong wrote:
Dear WG members,
As you'll recall, at our face to face meeting on Friday, the WG discussed whether there is a need to clarify whether the WG"s proposed definition of P/P services includes, or should expressly exclude, lawyers and attorneys who, as service providers, do proxy service registrations for clients in light of concerns over the impact on the right to counsel. The co-chairs would like to offer the following language for your further discussion:

"The issue of whether or not accreditation standards would apply to attorneys was raised in public comments.  However, we believe it is outside of ICANN's remit to regulate attorney/client relationships and we believe that ICANN should avoid attempting to do so in any implementation of our proposed policy."

Please feel free to continue the discussion via email to this list.

Thanks and cheers
Mary

Mary Wong
Senior Policy Director
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
Telephone: +1 603 574 4889
Email: mary.wong at icann.org<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org><mailto:mary.wong at icann.org><mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>

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_________________________
Graeme Bunton
Manager, Management Information Systems
Manager, Public Policy
Tucows Inc.
PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634
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