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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi John,<br>
<br>
I was referring to activities that are illegal in one country, but
not in another, not activities that are illegal in both countries,
but only conducted in one. Different pair of shoes. as an example
of the latter, murder would be illegal in Germany as well, even if
it were committed elsewehere, as there is a statute against murder
here as well. While you may not be able to persecute an American
murder in Germany, the fact is that murder is illegal in Germany
as well. <br>
<br>
As for your concrete example, please contact our abuse dept if you
have not already done so as I cannot discuss such issues here and
have not reviewed this case. <br>
<br>
As to the "why" of why they chose us, I would hope that customers
chose us because we offer reasonable pricing and good customer
service levels togeher with a well-developed customer service
platform. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADW+euugVdQ=o+DFo4WTORLttTHopLhKyWYo3Jd8PuATTVMpEg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">Hi
Volker,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">
Thanks! I think it's important to put all of this in context,
by the way: our experience has been that there's a lot of
praise that should be given to many registrars for taking
voluntary steps to reduce abuse on their platforms. Including,
in many cases, Key-Systems. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">I'm
just getting to a full work day, so I won't respond to all
points, except to explain that I think you misunderstand my
illegal drugs analogy; my apologies if it wasn't clear. Let's
take a real life example of a rogue Internet pharmacy
registered with Key-Systems: <u><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://180-tramadol.com">180-tramadol.com</a></u>.
This sells prescription drugs without a valid prescription or
valid pharmacy licensure. It is a criminal enterprise. The
"dispensing pharmacy" -- which was not appropriately licensed
as such -- was raided by the DEA, and the supply shifted to
coming from Vanuatu, making the drugs illegal to import into
the target market because the drugs are unregulated. There are
known deaths and overdoses associated with the larger network,
which has gone by multiple names over the years: RxPayouts,
Brick and Click, and more. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">But:
<u>this website does not violate German law</u>. (At least,
the drug safety and pharmacy licensure laws that we are
familiar with.) It's very important to understand why: <u
style="font-weight:bold">they are only shipping to the US.</u> You
cannot, no matter how hard you try, get the drugs shipped to
Germany. Try it. In this case, it is not that the activity is
legal under German laws. (Obviously, a prescription is
required for prescription drugs in Germany, drugs cannot be
fake, and so forth.) Rather, it is simply a nullity: it is
neither legal nor illegal; rather, German laws simply aren't
implicated at all because try as you might, the network will
not ship drugs to Germany, precisely in the hope that you will
insist on a court order. And so, the rogue pharma network
targeting only the US thrives. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">So,
let me ask you this: knowing that, why do you think that this
rogue online pharma network only targeting the US -- they have
many websites with your company -- is choosing a registrar in
Germany, outside of US jurisdiction? </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">Here
is a suggestion: require these websites to transfer to a
registrar in the US, since they are <u>only</u> selling drugs
to customers in the US. </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"
color="#073763">John Horton<br>
President, LegitScript</font>
<div> <img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://static.legitscript.com/assets/logo-smaller-cdb8a6f307ce2c6172e72257dc6dfc34.png"
width="96" height="21"><br>
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style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><b><font
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<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Volker
Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Hi John,<br>
<br>
thank you for your comments, and yes, we do our best to
deal with obvious illegal activities reported to us
because we think it is right, but not because there is a
legal obligation to do so.<br>
<br>
First, I think Tim raised a very valuable point, which
is that there needs to be a differentiation between what
providers are doing voluntarily and what they are doing
because it is required (be it by contract, law or
other).<br>
<br>
Registrars (and p/p service providers even more so) do
not share the same resources that banks do, nor do we
have access to the same wealth of information about our
customers. Therefore, we cannot be expected to
investigate or make a determination of whether a service
is illegal under our own jurisdiction unless it is
obvious that it is. There are simply no ressources
available for such investigations. If we have to "figure
it out", we are basically moving away from the obvious
violations and moving into the territory of the courts
and LEAs.<br>
<br>
<br>
Second, your illegal drugs analogy is flawed since if a
certain service were legal in the jurisdiction of the
provider, but is being provided in a country where it is
not, there simply is no requirement to take action,
since no laws are being broken in his jurisdiction. If
you are in the US and US laws are not being broken by
publishing for example Nazi hatepages and propaganda,
denying the holocaust or similar actions which are
highly illegal in Germany but not in the US because the
US has a different definition of free speech, then as
much as I hate it there is no court in the US that would
require the provider to take action. Similarly, if
copyright laws are different in other countries, for
example with regard to the date a creation enters the
public domain, then a provider in a country where Mickey
Mouse is already in the public domain should not be
required to take action against a site that publishes
Mickey Mouse cartoons just because the copyright
protection period is longer in the US. As a German
provider, I will adamantly refuse to enforce laws of a
different country unless these laws match the laws of
Germany. <br>
<br>
While it could be argued there may be a moral obligation
in certain cases, there certainly is no legal obligation
and we stop trying to construct super-national law that
trumps national law. That is ultimately the job of
national governments coming together and agreeing to
international treaties. <br>
<br>
There also is no need to get a German court order, all
you need is for a German court to confirm that a court
order in a different court should be enforceable in
Germany as well. There are sufficiently advanced legal
instruments already in place.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
</font></span></div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Hi
all,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Thanks
for the comments. Volker, thanks for your
comments, and I should also note that
LegitScript has been appreciative of Volker's
company's (Key-Systems) approach to anti-abuse
issues in the area we deal with. (And, Tim, we
think GoDaddy's anti-abuse team is great and
work with them closely.)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">That
said, let me respond on a few points. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">First,
I'll respond to Tim's question, and Volker's
statement about banks. I<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">t's
simply inaccurate that banks only take action
based on legal requirements, law enforcement
requests or court orders. LegitScript works
closely with Visa and other credit card
networks and through them with acquiring
banks, so I feel comfortable stating that we
know this area pretty well. The very firm
position of the credit card networks is that
acquirers are bound to ensure that the
merchant's activity is legal in the
cardholder's network as well as the merchant's
network. No credit card network would put up
with a bank insisting that they need a court
order or law enforcement request. Generally,
when that illegal activity is shown, the bank
cancels not only the credit card account but
the entire account. Without, I again
emphasize, a court order or law enforcement
request. (I should note here that I'm not
talking specifically about disclosure of the
merchant's identity but about providing or
canceling services in general.)</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">I
think that this is a useful analogy because,
like in the ICANN sphere, it's a matter of
contract. And it is required (not voluntary on
the part of the bank.) Like in the ICANN
sphere, we also see a common dynamic where --
I'll use illegal pharma as an example, again
because I know it -- an illegal drug seller
living in, say, Thailand targeting customers
in Germany chooses a bank in the US (where
German law enforcement has no jurisdiction),
ships the drugs from China, and so forth. If
the bank were to argue to Visa, "Well, we're
in the US and US laws aren't being broken. Get
me a court order from the US." that argument
would be immediately rejected and Visa would
fine the bank. The reason is that the credit
card network sphere is largely governed by
contract, because -- just like we see in the
ICANN world -- once companies start insisting
on local court orders, it gives criminals an
opportunity to pick safe havens. </span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">As
to search engines (responding to Tim's
question about what other industries do, and
whether it's voluntary or required), using
Google as an example, their voluntary and I
think very committed efforts (disclosure: we
work closely with them as well as Bing/Yahoo)
to stop rogue pharma from using their paid ad
services also occurred pursuant to a half a
billion (USD) fine and non-prosecution
agreement. Microsoft and Yahoo quickly adopted
the same standards after seeing what happened.
Voluntary? Well, I think required is the
better word: it's very clear in the search
engine space that if you're running an ad
program, it's your responsibility to make sure
that the advertiser (again, in my area, rogue
pharma) is operating legally both in the
country where they are operating and where
they are marketing drugs to. Otherwise, you
can be held responsible for turning a blind
eye to criminal activity and profiting from
it. </span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">That
said, Volker and others raise entirely valid
points -- but the point I'd make is, I think
this group needs to achieve balance on all of
these considerations, not discount those Gema
and I have raised. For example, V</span><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">olker (and
separately Kathy) have both raised the point
that a complainant could be anti-competitive
or falsely claiming to be a victim. That's
absolutely true. We see that too, and have to
deal with it. I just dealt with a situation a
few weeks ago where someone claiming to be a
victim was, in fact, a rogue Internet pharmacy
competitor. (But, we figured it out.) That
doesn't take away from the fact that some
complainants are, indeed, victims. These are
not mutually exclusive, and we need to
recognize that both dynamics exist -- not
assume that all complainants are victims or
are fraudulent. </span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial,
sans-serif">Coming back to the task at hand,
I'd encourage the group to consider those
questions. They are just questions, which are,
of course, designed to solicit better
information and responses. If they can be
improved and rewritten, I'm all for it. And
don't assume from this that I am suggesting
that a complainant (seeming to be a victim)
should be immediately told the registrant's
identity -- that sounds like a horrible
policy. We're only proposing questions here to
elicit better information. </font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial,
sans-serif">I hope that information about
credit card networks, banks and search engines
is helpful. Please do not hesitate to let me
know if I can clarify anything. </font></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif" color="#073763">John Horton<br>
President, LegitScript</font>
<div> <img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://static.legitscript.com/assets/logo-smaller-cdb8a6f307ce2c6172e72257dc6dfc34.png"
width="96" height="21"><br>
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0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><b><font
color="#444444">Follow</font><font
color="#0b5394"> </font><font
color="#000000">Legit</font><font
color="#0b5394">Script</font></b>:
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<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at
6:03 AM, Tim Ruiz <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tim@godaddy.com"
target="_blank">tim@godaddy.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>I agree with Volker. That said, I would
be very interested in understanding how
banks, credit card companies, and search
engines actually deal with
multi-jurisdictional issues. We may be
able to glean some concepts that could be
applied to p/p accreditation.</div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tim</div>
</font></span>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jan 8, 2014, at 7:21 AM, "Volker
Greimann" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>Hi all,<br>
<br>
to respond to John's comments:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_default">
<ul>
<li><font face="arial,
helvetica, sans-serif"
color="#073763">When an
allegation of illegal
activity is submitted to
the p/p service
provider, it is
important to understand
that it may be coming
from a victim of the
crime. </font></li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#073763"><font
face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif">When an allegation
of illegal activity is
submitted, it is important to
understand that it may be coming
from someone who merely claims
to vbe a victim of a crime, but
is in fact not. </font></font>The
purposes for which someone may want
to see the underlying registrant
data are multifold and many of them
are with the intent to later harass
the privacy service user, or worse.
We must remember in such cases that
there may be a very good reason why
the registrant has opted for whois
privacy. It may therefore be
essential for the registrant to know
who has inquired to have messages
relayed or to have the private data
revealed to be able to help the p/p
service provider better understand
the situation. While I understand
there may be cases where a
complainant may also have an
interest in keeping his identity
hidden, he can avail himself of a
multitude of methods to ensure this
prior to launching the complaint. I
do not see this question as actually
necessary. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">
<ul>
<li><font face="arial,
helvetica, sans-serif"
color="#073763">Similarly,
I proposed an additional
question regarding
whether, if disclosure
to the registrant is not
required, it should be
permitted even if law
enforcement explains
that it will jeopardize
an investigation. The
rationale for this is
simply that in many
cases -- in the offline
world, as the online
world -- disclosing this
information puts a
legitimate investigation
at risk. <br>
</font></li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#073763"><font
face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif">Agreed, but not all
law enforcement is created
equal. Basically, I would hold
that the p/p operator is unable
to determine if an investigation
is legitimate or not. Therefore,
the only law enforcement that
should receive </font></font>special
priviledges should be the law
enforcement of the country where the
p/p service is based or operates
from. <br>
<br>
No such privileges should be
extended to private organizations,
no matter how well intentioned
unless they are specially authorized
be the laws of the country of the
p/p operator. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">
<ul>
<li><font face="arial,
helvetica, sans-serif"
color="#073763">The
proposed questions
pertaining to
jurisdiction are based
on the problem I
identified (and Gema
did, as well) in our
earlier emails. I do
feel that the way I've
written the questions
can be clarified and
improved, so I welcome
anyone who would like to
give that a shot. </font>
</li>
<li><font face="arial,
helvetica, sans-serif"
color="#073763">Similarly,
we propose a question
that relates to the
other business interests
controlled by or
affiliated with the p/p
service. To explain
this, we have sometimes
seen that the criminal
organization "is" the
privacy/proxy service.
(Currently, of course,
there is no
accreditation scheme,
but the fact remains
that is what we see, and
I am happy to provide
examples if need be.) To
be very specific, we
know of circumstances
where a rogue Internet
pharmacy network
operates its own "proxy"
service, or
alternatively, the proxy
service -- that is, the
individuals who operate
it -- also operates as
affiliate marketers for
rogue networks, using
their own privacy/proxy
service primarily for
their own illegal
purposes.</font> </li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#073763"><font
face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif">Under an
accreditation scheme, if actual
collusion can be proven, that
should probably be a reason to
pull the accreditation of the
service.</font></font><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">
<ul>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
Finally, although I
unfortunately had to miss the
call this morning, I believe
that some of the comments may
have argued that registrars
(or, ICANN) should not have to
address criminal
jurisdictional issues (that
is, multi-jurisdictional
complexities). I'd note that
banks, credit card networks
and search engine ad programs
regularly have to address
precisely the same
multi-jurisdictional questions
relating to criminal activity
on their platform and do not
simply leave it to law
enforcement. I would argue
that there is no reason to
consider registrars a special
case that are for some reason
exempt from having to address
the same issues that companies
in the financial and
advertising sectors have had
to address, and have by and
large done so quite
competently. I am confident
that the registrar community
can competently do the same.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
John, please note that registrars
are not (and are nothing like) banks
or credit card networks, which are
highly regulated by national laws.
And even banks take action only
based upon legal requirements, law
enforcement requests or court
orders. To demand any more for less
regulated private companies is
frankly ridiculous. <br>
<br>
Your new questions as to related to
asking them about applicability of
foreign law enforcement requests
sound like an unrealistic wish list
at best. Providers bowing to every
whim of foreign law enforcement or
organizations without actual legal
authority would expose themsemselves
to severe legal liability. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
Thank you for the opportunity
to provide this input, and I
welcome any suggestions as to
how our suggestions can be
improved or refined. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font
face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif"
color="#073763">John
Horton<br>
President, LegitScript</font>
<div> <img
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://static.legitscript.com/assets/logo-smaller-cdb8a6f307ce2c6172e72257dc6dfc34.png"
width="96" height="21"><br>
<div>
<div>
<p
style="margin:0.0px
0.0px 0.0px
0.0px;font:12.0px
Helvetica"> <br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><b><font
color="#444444">Follow</font><font color="#0b5394"> </font><font
color="#000000">Legit</font><font
color="#0b5394">Script</font></b>: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com"
style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"> <font color="#cc0000">LinkedIn</font></a>
| <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" style="font-weight:normal"
target="_blank"><font
color="#6aa84f">Facebook</font></a> | <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://twitter.com/legitscript"
style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#674ea7">Twitter</font></a>
| <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitScript"
style="font-weight:normal"
target="_blank"><font
color="#bf9000">YouTube</font></a> | <font color="#ff9900"><u><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blog.legitscript.com" target="_blank">Blog</a></u></font>
|<font
color="#ff9900">
<font
style="font-weight:normal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts"
target="_blank">Google+</a></font></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 7:44 AM,
Marika Konings <span
dir="ltr"> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:marika.konings@icann.org"
target="_blank">marika.konings@icann.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div
style="border-right:medium
none;padding-right:0in;padding-left:0in;padding-top:3pt;text-align:left;font-size:11pt;border-bottom:medium
none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:#b5c4df
1pt
solid;padding-bottom:0in;border-left:medium
none"> <span
style="font-weight:bold">From:
</span>Kathy Kleiman
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>><br>
<span
style="font-weight:bold">Date:
</span>Tuesday 7
January 2014 16:38<br>
<span
style="font-weight:bold">To:
</span>Marika
Konings <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:marika.konings@icann.org" target="_blank">marika.konings@icann.org</a>><br>
<span
style="font-weight:bold">Subject:
</span>Fwd: Draft
Grouping of Charter
Questions - some
edits<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000">Hi
Marika, could you
post this to our
working group?
<div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<br>
--------
Original
Message
--------
<table
border="0"
cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th
valign="BASELINE"
align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap">Subject: </th>
<td>Draft
Grouping of
Charter
Questions -
some edits</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th
valign="BASELINE"
align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap">Date: </th>
<td>Tue, 07
Jan 2014
10:35:02 -0500</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th
valign="BASELINE"
align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap">From: </th>
<td>Kathy
Kleiman <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">
<kathy@kathykleiman.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th
valign="BASELINE"
align="RIGHT"
nowrap="nowrap">To: </th>
<td><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<div>Hi All,<br>
Hopefully you
have seen the
proposed edits
I just to the
SG-C Input
Template (I
haven't seen
them posted).
<br>
<br>
Attached here
are some
inputs to the
Draft Grouping
of Charter
Questions -
with an
organizational-type
perspective
being added.
The world is
really not
just
commercial/individual,
but truly one
of commercial,
noncommercial
and individual
(as ICANN has
organized its
non-contracted
parties). <br>
<br>
For a
religious
group,
political
group, hobby
group,
dissident
group may be
organized as a
limited
liability
company to
protect the
members in
case someone
falls in the
building, but
that does not
nullify the
fact that the
group is
engaged
primarily and
fully in
noncommercial
speech (as the
wide array of
members of
NCSG show).<br>
<br>
Again edits
highlighted
and hopefully
visible. I
would like to
see much more
discussion on
this issue in
our next
meeting and
over the list.<br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br>
<br>
:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I will miss the
first 30
minutes due to
another
obligation,
but will join
as soon as I
can.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf
Of </b>Marika
Konings<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Monday,
January 06,
2014 4:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg]
Proposed
Agenda - PPSAI
PDP WG Meeting</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dear
All,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Please
find below the
proposed
agenda for the
next PPSAI PDP
WG meeting
(Tuesday 7
January at
15.00 UTC).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Best
regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Marika</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Proposed
Agenda – PPSAI
PDP WG Meeting
– 7 January
2013</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:1.0in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>1.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Roll Call / SOI</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:1.0in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>2.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Review &
finalise SG/C
Template (see
revised
version
attached)</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:1.0in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>3.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Review &
finalise SO/AC
Outreach
Letter (see
revised
version
attached)</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:1.0in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>4.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Input to EWG
Survey (see
attached)</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:1.0in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>5.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Update on WG
members survey
(to
participate,
please go to <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/86N33WX"
target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/86N33WX</a>) </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:1.0in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>6.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Review proposed
charter
question
groupings (see
latest version
attached)</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:1.0in"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>7.<span>
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Next steps &
confirm next
meeting</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing
list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></span></div>
</blockquote>
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</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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