<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">Hi Volker,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">

Thanks! I think it&#39;s important to put all of this in context, by the way: our experience has been that there&#39;s a lot of praise that should be given to many registrars for taking voluntary steps to reduce abuse on their platforms. Including, in many cases, Key-Systems. </div>

<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">I&#39;m just getting to a full work day, so I won&#39;t respond to all points, except to explain that I think you misunderstand my illegal drugs analogy; my apologies if it wasn&#39;t clear. Let&#39;s take a real life example of a rogue Internet pharmacy registered with Key-Systems: <u><a href="http://180-tramadol.com">180-tramadol.com</a></u>. This sells prescription drugs without a valid prescription or valid pharmacy licensure. It is a criminal enterprise. The &quot;dispensing pharmacy&quot; -- which was not appropriately licensed as such -- was raided by the DEA, and the supply shifted to coming from Vanuatu, making the drugs illegal to import into the target market because the drugs are unregulated. There are known deaths and overdoses associated with the larger network, which has gone by multiple names over the years: RxPayouts, Brick and Click, and more. </div>

<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">But: <u>this website does not violate German law</u>. (At least, the drug safety and pharmacy licensure laws that we are familiar with.) It&#39;s very important to understand why: <u style="font-weight:bold">they are only shipping to the US.</u> You cannot, no matter how hard you try, get the drugs shipped to Germany. Try it. In this case, it is not that the activity is legal under German laws. (Obviously, a prescription is required for prescription drugs in Germany, drugs cannot be fake, and so forth.) Rather, it is simply a nullity: it is neither legal nor illegal; rather, German laws simply aren&#39;t implicated at all because try as you might, the network will not ship drugs to Germany, precisely in the hope that you will insist on a court order. And so, the rogue pharma network targeting only the US thrives. </div>

<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">So, let me ask you this: knowing that, why do you think that this rogue online pharma network only targeting the US -- they have many websites with your company -- is choosing a registrar in Germany, outside of US jurisdiction? </div>

<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">Here is a suggestion: require these websites to transfer to a registrar in the US, since they are <u>only</u> selling drugs to customers in the US.  </div>

</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><font color="#073763" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">John Horton<br>President, LegitScript</font><div> <img src="https://static.legitscript.com/assets/logo-smaller-cdb8a6f307ce2c6172e72257dc6dfc34.png" width="96" height="21"><br>

<div><div><p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><b><font color="#444444">Follow</font><font color="#0b5394"> </font><font color="#000000">Legit</font><font color="#0b5394">Script</font></b>: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#cc0000">LinkedIn</font></a>  |  <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#6aa84f">Facebook</font></a>  |  <a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#674ea7">Twitter</font></a>  |  <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitScript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#bf9000">YouTube</font></a>  |  <font color="#ff9900"><u><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com" target="_blank">Blog</a></u></font>  |<font color="#ff9900">  <font style="font-weight:normal"><a href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts" target="_blank">Google+</a></font></font></p>

</div></div></div></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div>Hi John,<br>
      <br>
      thank you for your comments, and yes, we do our best to deal with
      obvious illegal activities reported to us because we think it is
      right, but not because there is a legal obligation to do so.<br>
      <br>
      First, I think Tim raised a very valuable point, which is that
      there needs to be a differentiation between what providers are
      doing voluntarily and what they are doing because it is required
      (be it by contract, law or other).<br>
      <br>
      Registrars (and p/p service providers even more so) do not share
      the same resources that banks do, nor do we have access to the
      same wealth of information about our customers. Therefore, we
      cannot be expected to investigate or make a determination of
      whether a service is illegal under our own jurisdiction unless it
      is obvious that it is. There are simply no ressources available
      for such investigations. If we have to &quot;figure it out&quot;, we are
      basically moving away from the obvious violations and moving into
      the territory of the courts and LEAs.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Second, your illegal drugs analogy is flawed since if a certain
      service were legal in the jurisdiction of the provider, but is
      being provided in a country where it is not, there simply is no
      requirement to take action, since no laws are being broken in his
      jurisdiction. If you are in the US and US laws are not being
      broken by publishing for example Nazi hatepages and propaganda,
      denying the holocaust or similar actions which are highly illegal
      in Germany but not in the US because the US has a different
      definition of free speech, then as much as I hate it there is no
      court in the US that would require the provider to take action.
      Similarly, if copyright laws are different in other countries, for
      example with regard to the date a creation enters the public
      domain, then a provider in a country where Mickey Mouse is already
      in the public domain should not be required to take action against
      a site that publishes Mickey Mouse cartoons just because the
      copyright protection period is longer in the US. As a German
      provider, I will adamantly refuse to enforce laws of a different
      country unless these laws match the laws of Germany. <br>
      <br>
      While it could be argued there may be a moral obligation in
      certain cases, there certainly is no legal obligation and we stop
      trying to construct super-national law that trumps national law.
      That is ultimately the job of national governments coming together
      and agreeing to international treaties. <br>
      <br>
      There also is no need to get a German court order, all you need is
      for a German court to confirm that a court order in a different
      court should be enforceable in Germany as well. There are
      sufficiently advanced legal instruments already in place.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
      <br>
      Volker<br>
      <br>
    </font></span></div><div><div class="h5">
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Hi
          all,</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">Thanks
          for the comments. Volker, thanks for your comments, and I
          should also note that LegitScript has been appreciative of
          Volker&#39;s company&#39;s (Key-Systems) approach to anti-abuse issues
          in the area we deal with. (And, Tim, we think GoDaddy&#39;s
          anti-abuse team is great and work with them closely.)</div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">That
          said, let me respond on a few points. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">First,
          I&#39;ll respond to Tim&#39;s question, and Volker&#39;s statement about
          banks. I<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">t&#39;s
            simply inaccurate that banks only take action based on legal
            requirements, law enforcement requests or court orders.
            LegitScript works closely with Visa and other credit card
            networks and through them with acquiring banks, so I feel
            comfortable stating that we know this area pretty well. The
            very firm position of the credit card networks is that
            acquirers are bound to ensure that the merchant&#39;s activity
            is legal in the cardholder&#39;s network as well as the
            merchant&#39;s network. No credit card network would put up with
            a bank insisting that they need a court order or law
            enforcement request. Generally, when that illegal activity
            is shown, the bank cancels not only the credit card account
            but the entire account. Without, I again emphasize, a court
            order or law enforcement request. (I should note here that
            I&#39;m not talking specifically about disclosure of the
            merchant&#39;s identity but about providing or canceling
            services in general.)</span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
          <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">I
            think that this is a useful analogy because, like in the
            ICANN sphere, it&#39;s a matter of contract. And it is required
            (not voluntary on the part of the bank.) Like in the ICANN
            sphere, we also see a common dynamic where -- I&#39;ll use
            illegal pharma as an example, again because I know it -- an
            illegal drug seller living in, say, Thailand targeting
            customers in Germany chooses a bank in the US (where German
            law enforcement has no jurisdiction), ships the drugs from
            China, and so forth. If the bank were to argue to Visa,
            &quot;Well, we&#39;re in the US and US laws aren&#39;t being broken. Get
            me a court order from the US.&quot; that argument would be
            immediately rejected and Visa would fine the bank. The
            reason is that the credit card network sphere is largely
            governed by contract, because -- just like we see in the
            ICANN world -- once companies start insisting on local court
            orders, it gives criminals an opportunity to pick safe
            havens. </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
          <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">As
            to search engines (responding to Tim&#39;s question about what
            other industries do, and whether it&#39;s voluntary or
            required), using Google as an example, their voluntary and I
            think very committed efforts (disclosure: we work closely
            with them as well as Bing/Yahoo) to stop rogue pharma from
            using their paid ad services also occurred pursuant to a
            half a billion (USD) fine and non-prosecution agreement.
            Microsoft and Yahoo quickly adopted the same standards after
            seeing what happened. Voluntary? Well, I think required is
            the better word: it&#39;s very clear in the search engine space
            that if you&#39;re running an ad program, it&#39;s your
            responsibility to make sure that the advertiser (again, in
            my area, rogue pharma) is operating legally both in the
            country where they are operating and where they are
            marketing drugs to. Otherwise, you can be held responsible
            for turning a blind eye to criminal activity and profiting
            from it.  </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
          <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">That
            said, Volker and others raise entirely valid points -- but
            the point I&#39;d make is, I think this group needs to achieve
            balance on all of these considerations, not discount those
            Gema and I  have raised. For example, V</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">olker
            (and separately Kathy) have both raised the point that a
            complainant could be anti-competitive or falsely claiming to
            be a victim. That&#39;s absolutely true. We see that too, and
            have to deal with it. I just dealt with a situation a few
            weeks ago where someone claiming to be a victim was, in
            fact, a rogue Internet pharmacy competitor. (But, we figured
            it out.) That doesn&#39;t take away from the fact that some
            complainants are, indeed, victims. These are not mutually
            exclusive, and we need to recognize that both dynamics exist
            -- not assume that all complainants are victims or are
            fraudulent. </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Coming
            back to the task at hand, I&#39;d encourage the group to
            consider those questions. They are just questions, which
            are, of course, designed to solicit better information and
            responses. If they can be improved and rewritten, I&#39;m all
            for it. And don&#39;t assume from this that I am suggesting that
            a complainant (seeming to be a victim) should be immediately
            told the registrant&#39;s identity -- that sounds like a
            horrible policy. We&#39;re only proposing questions here to
            elicit better information. </font></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
          </font></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif">I hope
            that information about credit card networks, banks and
            search engines is helpful. Please do not hesitate to let me
            know if I can clarify anything. </font></div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
        <div>
          <div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#073763">John Horton<br>
              President, LegitScript</font>
            <div> <img src="https://static.legitscript.com/assets/logo-smaller-cdb8a6f307ce2c6172e72257dc6dfc34.png" width="96" height="21"><br>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica"><br>
                  </p>
                  <p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><b><font color="#444444">Follow</font><font color="#0b5394"> </font><font color="#000000">Legit</font><font color="#0b5394">Script</font></b>: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#cc0000">LinkedIn</font></a>  |  <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#6aa84f">Facebook</font></a>  |  <a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#674ea7">Twitter</font></a>  |  <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitScript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#bf9000">YouTube</font></a>  |  <font color="#ff9900"><u><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com" target="_blank">Blog</a></u></font>  |<font color="#ff9900">  <font style="font-weight:normal"><a href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts" target="_blank">Google+</a></font></font></p>


                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 6:03 AM, Tim
          Ruiz <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tim@godaddy.com" target="_blank">tim@godaddy.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="auto">
              <div>I agree with Volker. That said, I would be very
                interested in understanding how banks, credit card
                companies, and search engines actually deal with
                multi-jurisdictional issues. We may be able to glean
                some concepts that could be applied to p/p
                accreditation.</div>
              <span><font color="#888888">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Tim</div>
                </font></span>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                    On Jan 8, 2014, at 7:21 AM, &quot;Volker Greimann&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div>
                      <div>Hi all,<br>
                        <br>
                        to respond to John&#39;s comments:<br>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                          <div class="gmail_default">
                            <ul>
                              <li><font face="arial, helvetica,
                                  sans-serif" color="#073763">When an
                                  allegation of illegal activity is
                                  submitted to the p/p service provider,
                                  it is important to understand that it
                                  may be coming from a victim of the
                                  crime.
                                </font></li>
                            </ul>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <font color="#073763"><font face="arial,
                          helvetica, sans-serif">When an allegation of
                          illegal activity is submitted, it is important
                          to understand that it may be coming from
                          someone who merely claims to vbe a victim of a
                          crime, but is in fact not.
                        </font></font>The purposes for which someone may
                      want to see the underlying registrant data are
                      multifold and many of them are with the intent to
                      later harass the privacy service user, or worse.
                      We must remember in such cases that there may be a
                      very good reason why the registrant has opted for
                      whois privacy. It may therefore be essential for
                      the registrant to know who has inquired to have
                      messages relayed or to have the private data
                      revealed to be able to help the p/p service
                      provider better understand the situation. While I
                      understand there may be cases where a complainant
                      may also have an interest in keeping his identity
                      hidden, he can avail himself of a multitude of
                      methods to ensure this prior to launching the
                      complaint. I do not see this question as actually
                      necessary.
                      <br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div class="gmail_default">
                            <ul>
                              <li><font face="arial, helvetica,
                                  sans-serif" color="#073763">Similarly,
                                  I proposed an additional question
                                  regarding whether, if disclosure to
                                  the registrant is not required, it
                                  should be permitted even if law
                                  enforcement explains that it will
                                  jeopardize an investigation. The
                                  rationale for this is simply that in
                                  many cases -- in the offline world, as
                                  the online world -- disclosing this
                                  information puts a legitimate
                                  investigation at risk.
                                  <br>
                                </font></li>
                            </ul>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <font color="#073763"><font face="arial,
                          helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, but not all law
                          enforcement is created equal. Basically, I
                          would hold that the p/p operator is unable to
                          determine if an investigation is legitimate or
                          not. Therefore, the only law enforcement that
                          should receive </font></font>special
                      priviledges should be the law enforcement of the
                      country where the p/p service is based or operates
                      from.
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      No such privileges should be extended to private
                      organizations, no matter how well intentioned
                      unless they are specially authorized be the laws
                      of the country of the p/p operator.
                      <br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div class="gmail_default">
                            <ul>
                              <li><font face="arial, helvetica,
                                  sans-serif" color="#073763">The
                                  proposed questions pertaining to
                                  jurisdiction are based on the problem
                                  I identified (and Gema did, as well)
                                  in our earlier emails. I do feel that
                                  the way I&#39;ve written the questions can
                                  be clarified and improved, so I
                                  welcome anyone who would like to give
                                  that a shot. </font> </li>
                              <li><font face="arial, helvetica,
                                  sans-serif" color="#073763">Similarly,
                                  we propose a question that relates to
                                  the other business interests
                                  controlled by or affiliated with the
                                  p/p service. To explain this, we have
                                  sometimes seen that the criminal
                                  organization &quot;is&quot; the privacy/proxy
                                  service. (Currently, of course, there
                                  is no accreditation scheme, but the
                                  fact remains that is what we see, and
                                  I am happy to provide examples if need
                                  be.) To be very specific, we know of
                                  circumstances where a rogue Internet
                                  pharmacy network operates its own
                                  &quot;proxy&quot; service, or alternatively, the
                                  proxy service -- that is, the
                                  individuals who operate it -- also
                                  operates as affiliate marketers for
                                  rogue networks, using their own
                                  privacy/proxy service primarily for
                                  their own illegal purposes.</font>
                              </li>
                            </ul>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <font color="#073763"><font face="arial,
                          helvetica, sans-serif">Under an accreditation
                          scheme, if actual collusion can be proven,
                          that should probably be a reason to pull the
                          accreditation of the service.</font></font><br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div class="gmail_default">
                            <ul>
                            </ul>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
                            Finally, although I unfortunately had to
                            miss the call this morning, I believe that
                            some of the comments may have argued that
                            registrars (or, ICANN) should not have to
                            address criminal jurisdictional issues (that
                            is, multi-jurisdictional complexities). I&#39;d
                            note that banks, credit card networks and
                            search engine ad programs regularly have to
                            address precisely the same
                            multi-jurisdictional questions relating to
                            criminal activity on their platform and do
                            not simply leave it to law enforcement. I
                            would argue that there is no reason to
                            consider registrars a special case that are
                            for some reason exempt from having to
                            address the same issues that companies in
                            the financial and advertising sectors have
                            had to address, and have by and large done
                            so quite competently. I am confident that
                            the registrar community can competently do
                            the same.</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      John, please note that registrars are not (and are
                      nothing like) banks or credit card networks, which
                      are highly regulated by national laws. And even
                      banks take action only based upon legal
                      requirements, law enforcement requests or court
                      orders. To demand any more for less regulated
                      private companies is frankly ridiculous. <br>
                      <br>
                      Your new questions as to related to asking them
                      about applicability of foreign law enforcement
                      requests sound like an unrealistic wish list at
                      best. Providers bowing to every whim of foreign
                      law enforcement or organizations without actual
                      legal authority would expose themsemselves to
                      severe legal liability. <br>
                      <br>
                      Best,<br>
                      <br>
                      Volker<br>
                      <br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(7,55,99)">
                            Thank you for the opportunity to provide
                            this input, and I welcome any suggestions as
                            to how our suggestions can be improved or
                            refined. </div>
                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                            <div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><font face="arial,
                                  helvetica, sans-serif" color="#073763">John
                                  Horton<br>
                                  President, LegitScript</font>
                                <div> <img src="https://static.legitscript.com/assets/logo-smaller-cdb8a6f307ce2c6172e72257dc6dfc34.png" width="96" height="21"><br>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica">
                                        <br>
                                      </p>
                                      <p style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><b><font color="#444444">Follow</font><font color="#0b5394"> </font><font color="#000000">Legit</font><font color="#0b5394">Script</font></b>:
                                        <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank">
                                          <font color="#cc0000">LinkedIn</font></a> 
                                        |  <a href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#6aa84f">Facebook</font></a> 
                                        |  <a href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#674ea7">Twitter</font></a> 
                                        |  <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitScript" style="font-weight:normal" target="_blank"><font color="#bf9000">YouTube</font></a> 
                                        |  <font color="#ff9900"><u><a href="http://blog.legitscript.com" target="_blank">Blog</a></u></font>
                                         |<font color="#ff9900">  <font style="font-weight:normal"><a href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts" target="_blank">Google+</a></font></font></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 7, 2014
                              at 7:44 AM, Marika Konings <span dir="ltr">
                                &lt;<a href="mailto:marika.konings@icann.org" target="_blank">marika.konings@icann.org</a>&gt;</span>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                <div style="font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;word-wrap:break-word">
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <span>
                                    <div style="border-right:medium none;padding-right:0in;padding-left:0in;padding-top:3pt;text-align:left;font-size:11pt;border-bottom:medium none;font-family:Calibri;border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid;padding-bottom:0in;border-left:medium none">


                                      <span style="font-weight:bold">From:
                                      </span>Kathy Kleiman &lt;<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>&gt;<br>
                                      <span style="font-weight:bold">Date:
                                      </span>Tuesday 7 January 2014
                                      16:38<br>
                                      <span style="font-weight:bold">To:
                                      </span>Marika Konings &lt;<a href="mailto:marika.konings@icann.org" target="_blank">marika.konings@icann.org</a>&gt;<br>
                                      <span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:
                                      </span>Fwd: Draft Grouping of
                                      Charter Questions - some edits<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Hi Marika, could
                                        you post this to our working
                                        group?
                                        <div>
                                          <div><br>
                                            <div><br>
                                              <br>
                                              -------- Original Message
                                              --------
                                              <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
                                                <tbody>
                                                  <tr>
                                                    <th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap>Subject:
                                                    </th>
                                                    <td>Draft Grouping
                                                      of Charter
                                                      Questions - some
                                                      edits</td>
                                                  </tr>
                                                  <tr>
                                                    <th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap>Date:
                                                    </th>
                                                    <td>Tue, 07 Jan 2014
                                                      10:35:02 -0500</td>
                                                  </tr>
                                                  <tr>
                                                    <th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap>From:
                                                    </th>
                                                    <td>Kathy Kleiman <a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">
&lt;kathy@kathykleiman.com&gt;</a></td>
                                                  </tr>
                                                  <tr>
                                                    <th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap>To:
                                                    </th>
                                                    <td><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></td>
                                                  </tr>
                                                </tbody>
                                              </table>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <div>Hi All,<br>
                                                Hopefully you have seen
                                                the proposed edits I
                                                just to the SG-C Input
                                                Template (I haven&#39;t seen
                                                them posted).
                                                <br>
                                                <br>
                                                Attached here are some
                                                inputs to the Draft
                                                Grouping of Charter
                                                Questions - with an
                                                organizational-type
                                                perspective being added.
                                                The world is really not
                                                just
                                                commercial/individual,
                                                but truly one of
                                                commercial,
                                                noncommercial and
                                                individual (as ICANN has
                                                organized its
                                                non-contracted parties).
                                                <br>
                                                <br>
                                                For a religious group,
                                                political group, hobby
                                                group, dissident group
                                                may be organized as a
                                                limited liability
                                                company to protect the
                                                members in case someone
                                                falls in the building,
                                                but that does not
                                                nullify the fact that
                                                the group is engaged
                                                primarily and fully in
                                                noncommercial speech (as
                                                the wide array of
                                                members of NCSG show).<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Again edits highlighted
                                                and hopefully visible. I
                                                would like to see much
                                                more discussion on this
                                                issue in our next
                                                meeting and over the
                                                list.<br>
                                                Best,<br>
                                                Kathy<br>
                                                 <br>
                                                :<br>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I will miss the
                                                      first 30 minutes
                                                      due to another
                                                      obligation, but
                                                      will join as soon
                                                      as I can.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                                                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
                                                          gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
                                                          [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
                                                          <b>On Behalf
                                                          Of </b>Marika
                                                          Konings<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          Monday,
                                                          January 06,
                                                          2014 4:30 AM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg]
                                                          Proposed
                                                          Agenda - PPSAI
                                                          PDP WG Meeting</span></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dear
                                                        All,</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Please
                                                        find below the
                                                        proposed agenda
                                                        for the next
                                                        PPSAI PDP WG
                                                        meeting (Tuesday
                                                        7 January at
                                                        15.00 UTC).</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Best
                                                        regards,</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Marika</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Proposed
                                                          Agenda – PPSAI
                                                          PDP WG Meeting
                                                          – 7 January
                                                          2013</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span>1.<span>      
                                                          </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Roll Call / SOI</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span>2.<span>      
                                                          </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Review &amp;
                                                        finalise SG/C
                                                        Template (see
                                                        revised version
                                                        attached)</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span>3.<span>      
                                                          </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Review &amp;
                                                        finalise SO/AC
                                                        Outreach Letter
                                                        (see revised
                                                        version
                                                        attached)</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span>4.<span>      
                                                          </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Input to EWG
                                                        Survey (see
                                                        attached)</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span>5.<span>      
                                                          </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Update on WG
                                                        members survey
                                                        (to participate,
                                                        please go to <a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/86N33WX" target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/86N33WX</a>) </span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span>6.<span>      
                                                          </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Review proposed
                                                        charter question
                                                        groupings (see
                                                        latest version
                                                        attached)</span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><span>7.<span>      
                                                          </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Next steps &amp;
                                                        confirm next
                                                        meeting</span></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <br>
                                                <fieldset></fieldset>
                                                <br>
                                                <pre>_______________________________________________
Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
<a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></pre>


                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                            </div>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </span></div>
                                <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
                                <a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                                <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><br>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br>
                        <fieldset></fieldset>
                        <br>
                        <pre>_______________________________________________
Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
<a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></pre>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <pre cols="72">-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken 
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a> 

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken 
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a> 

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.



</pre>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
                      <span>Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br>
                      <span><a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
                      <span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></span></div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
            <a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
            <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre cols="72">-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken 
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a> 

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken 
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a> 

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.



</pre>
  </div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>