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No identities of criminals are effectively protected by privacy
services, provided they are required to reveal such identities to
law enforcement of appropriate jurisdiction. <br>
<br>
Private individuals, vigilantes or other interested parties on the
other hand have no real legitimate interest to receive data on
alleged criminals data unless they want to take matters best left to
LEAs into their own hands.<br>
<br>
There is a reason why even criminals have the right to privacy and
not to have their full names and likenesses published. Heck, in
Japan, TV stations even mosaic handcuffs of suspects.<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:alpine.LRH.2.03.1401201119060.24895@sanctuary.coldrain.net"
type="cite">
<br>
<br>
Hi Tim,
<br>
<br>
The harm is protecting the identities of criminnals. And I
consider undermining whois a harm, as well
<br>
<br>
--bob
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014, Tim Ruiz wrote:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">What are the problems commercial entities
that use p/p have caused?
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jan 20, 2014, at 8:11 AM, "Bob Bruen"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bruen@coldrain.net"><bruen@coldrain.net></a> wrote:
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Volker,
<br>
<br>
I was merely responding to Stephanie's comments about the
difficulties, not advocating a position.
<br>
<br>
However, as you are aware, I do advocate barring commercial
entities from using p/p, because the use has already caused
harm and we should fix that. The providers created the problem
in the first place, so allowing them to continue to control it
simply continues the problem.
<br>
<br>
The discussion of all this is the point of this group (and
other groups).
<br>
<br>
--bob
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Mon, 20 Jan 2014, Volker Greimann
wrote:
<br>
<br>
I agree that it would be possible to bar commercial entities
from using p/p services, however I am not sure it is the
<br>
sensible thing to do. Certainly, there is abuse, but by
creating a blanket prohibition, i fear more damage will be
done to
<br>
legitimate interests than good is done to illegitimate ones.
<br>
In the end it should be up to the provider which categories
of clients it accepts.
<br>
Volker
<br>
Am 20.01.2014 02:08, schrieb Bob Bruen:
<br>
<br>
Hi Stephanie,
<br>
<br>
It is entirely possible to decide to bar commercial
entities, create a definition of "comercial entities" and
<br>
then deal with those which appear to problematical.
<br>
<br>
The fraudsters probably will not be a set up as a
legitimate bussiness, but their sites can be identified as
<br>
spam, malware, etc types and thus taking money,
therefore a business. I am sure there are other methods to
deal
<br>
with problem domain names.
<br>
<br>
In general, exceptions or problems should not derail a
process.
<br>
<br>
--bob
<br>
<br>
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
<br>
<br>
I dont want to keep beating a dead horse
here....but if there is a resounding
<br>
response of "yes indeed, bar commercial entities
from using P/P services", then
<br>
how are you going to propose that p/p proxy
service providers determine who is a
<br>
commercial entity, particularly in jurisdictions
which have declined to regulate
<br>
the provision of goods and services over the
Internet? I don't like asking
<br>
questions that walk us into corners we cannot get
out of. Do the fraudsters we
<br>
are worried about actually apply for business
numbers and articles of
<br>
incorporation in the jurisdictions in which they
operate? I operate in a
<br>
jurisdiction where this distinction is often
extremely difficult to make. THe
<br>
determination would depend on the precise use
being made of the domain
<br>
name....which gets ICANN squarely into content
analysis, and which can hardly be
<br>
done for new registrations, even if t were within
ICANN's remit. I am honestly
<br>
not trying to be difficult, but I just have not
heard a good answer to this
<br>
problem.
<br>
Stephanie Perrin
<br>
On 2014-01-19, at 4:38 PM, Holly Raiche wrote:
<br>
<br>
Jin and all
<br>
I agree with Jim here (and Don earlier). The
important task here is
<br>
agreeing on the questions to be asked of the
SO/ACs. So we need to get
<br>
back to framing the questions - not answering
them, however tempting that
<br>
may be.
<br>
<br>
So the question of whether 'commercial entities'
should be barred is still
<br>
a useful question to ask. The next question
would be whether there are
<br>
possible distinctions that should be drawn
between an entity that can use
<br>
the service and one that can't and, if so, where
is the line drawn. I agree
<br>
with the discussion on how difficult that will be
because many entities
<br>
that have corporate status also have reasonable
grounds for wanting the
<br>
protection of such a service (human rights
organisations or women's refuges
<br>
come to mind). But that is the sort of response
we are seeking from
<br>
others outside of this group - so let's not
prejudge answers. Let's only
<br>
frame the questions that will help us come to
some sensible answers.
<br>
Otherwise, we'll never get to the next steps.
<br>
<br>
And my apologies for the next meeting. I have a
long day ahead on
<br>
Wednesday (Sydney time) and taking calls at
2.00am won't help. So Ill read
<br>
the transcript and be back in a fortnight (2
weeks for those who do not use
<br>
the term)
<br>
<br>
Holly
<br>
<br>
On 16/01/2014, at 5:39 AM, Jim Bikoff wrote:
<br>
<br>
Don and all,
<br>
<br>
As we suggested earlier, and discussed in the
last Group
<br>
teleconference, it might be helpful, as a next
step, if we reached a
<br>
consensus on the groups of questions before
sending them out to
<br>
SO/ACs and SG/Cs.
<br>
<br>
This would involve two steps: First, agreeing on
the name of each
<br>
group; and second, streamlining the questions in
each group.
<br>
<br>
In the first step, we could consider alternative
headings (perhaps
<br>
REGISTRATION instead of MAINTENANCE).
<br>
<br>
And in the second step, we could remove
duplicative or vague
<br>
questions.
<br>
<br>
This crystallization would make the questions
more approachable, and
<br>
encourage better responses.
<br>
<br>
I hope these ideas are helpful.
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
Jim
<br>
<br>
James L. Bikoff
<br>
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, LLP
<br>
1101 30th Street, NW
<br>
Suite 120
<br>
Washington, DC 20007
<br>
Tel: 202-944-3303
<br>
Fax: 202-944-3306
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jbikoff@sgbdc.com">jbikoff@sgbdc.com</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Don Blumenthal <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org"><dblumenthal@pir.org></a>
<br>
Date: January 14, 2014 11:09:23 AM EST
<br>
To: PPSAI <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"><gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org></a>
<br>
Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Carlton's closing
chat question
<br>
Carlton posted an issue that shouldn’t wait
a week:
<br>
<br>
“John came up with 4 groups. Do we have a notion
that others
<br>
might be extracted? And where do we
include/modify questions
<br>
to address Stephanie's issue?"
<br>
<br>
Jim had four groups and an umbrella Main
category, which may be
<br>
instructive in itself in guiding how we proceed
<br>
organizationally. Regardless, the consensus of
commenters has
<br>
been that his document is a significant
improvement over where
<br>
we were before, and I suggest that we use it as a
baseline.
<br>
However, we still have work to do on it. Feel
free to suggest
<br>
modifications.
<br>
<br>
Don
<br>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
--
<br>
Dr. Robert Bruen
<br>
Cold Rain Labs
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://coldrain.net/bruen">http://coldrain.net/bruen</a>
<br>
+1.802.579.6288
<br>
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<br>
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<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
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