<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">Hi Alex – the WG Charter does not expressly limit the work of this WG to only P/P services provided by entities affiliated with a Registrar. </div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">Perhaps the 2013 RAA has created a bit of confusion in this respect. It requires Registrars and those of its Affiliates that offer P/P services to comply with the terms of the temporary P/P Specification (with Affiliates defined in terms of corporate control). It also requires that a Registrar's Resellers comply with the Specification until such time as ICANN establishes a P/P Accreditation Program. As such, the 2013 RAA as currently written applies to affiliated P/P services (including any distributed through a Reseller).</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><br></div><div><span style="line-height: 21.75px; text-align: left; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.589844); ">The RAA does seem to envisage that "Among other features, the Proxy Accreditation Program [to be established by ICANN] may require that: (i) proxy and privacy registration services may only be provided in respect of domain name registrations by individuals or entities Accredited by </span><abbr title="Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers" style="border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dotted; line-height: 21.75px; text-align: left; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.589844); ">ICANN</abbr><span style="line-height: 21.75px; text-align: left; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.589844); "> pursuant to such Proxy Accreditation Program; and (ii) Registrar shall prohibit Resellers from knowingly accepting registrations from any provider of proxy and privacy registration services that is not Accredited by </span><abbr title="Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers" style="border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: dotted; line-height: 21.75px; text-align: left; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.589844); ">ICANN</abbr><span style="line-height: 21.75px; text-align: left; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.589844); "> pursuant the Proxy Accreditation Program." (see Section 3.12.4 of the 2013 RAA)</span></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri"><br></font></font></div><div>I<font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri"> hope this helps.</font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri"><br></font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Cheers</font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Mary</font></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri"><br></font></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Mary Wong</font></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Senior Policy Director</font></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)</font></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Telephone: +1 603 574 4892</font></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">Email: mary.wong@icann.org</font></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri"><br></font></font></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri">* One World. One Internet. *</font></font></div></div></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> "<a href="mailto:Alex_Deacon@mpaa.org">Alex_Deacon@mpaa.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:Alex_Deacon@mpaa.org">Alex_Deacon@mpaa.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Tuesday, March 4, 2014 5:45 PM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Registrar affiliated p/p services? (was Re: For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2)<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div><br></div><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>First, thanks for the great discussion on weekly call this morning. The presentations were very helpful.</div><div><br></div><div>Second, a quick yet fundamental question - prompted by a statement made by Kathy below. </div><div><br></div><div>Does the scope of our work include *only” privacy/proxy providers affiliated with registrars? I was working under the impression that any privacy/proxy provider - affiliated or not - was in scope i.e we are the PPSAI PDP WG and not the RAPPSAI PDP
WG.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div>Alex</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Mar 4, 2014, at 5:23 AM, Kathy Kleiman <<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="moz-cite-prefix">What Volker writes below makes sense to me, All. Provided the agreed upon 2013 RAA review of data has been done by someone, I don't see why we should duplicate it. The scope of our WG is p/p providers affiliated with registrars
-- so coordination of the review of the data, per the ICANN rules, in conjunction with the Registrar makes perfect sense to me.<br><br>
As does a "no-privacy penalty." What we have found (Nominet and others -- BTW no one on staff reached out to me to help dig out this study, can we do that this week?) is that when people know their data is private and protected, it is more accurate. That makes
sense and complies with government advice from all corners. Even the US Federal Trade Commission says not to give out your name and phone number in a way that is open and unprotected!<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>
So I think we are already headed towards more accurate data...<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br>
:<br></div><blockquote cite="mid:53159BF5.8080602@key-systems.net" type="cite">Hi Steven,<br><br>
if we can limit that obligation to those cases where no validation of the underlying data has been performed by the registrar of record, we might be getting somewhere. An independent obligation that duplicates work already done will help no one and confuse
many.<br><br>
Volker<br><br><br><br><div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 03.03.2014 19:51, schrieb Metalitz, Steven:<br></div><blockquote cite="mid:E5B4A2ED43DFAE4F9E710FA54FEF8F62294D9068@LAEX02.MSK.local" type="cite"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks Volker. It is precisely because</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">the
registrars obligation only extends to the registrant of record, not to anyone who may use the domain name with permission of that registrant,” that there should be an independent obligation on the part of the p/p service provider to validate its customer’s
contact information.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Steve.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Volker Greimann [<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, March 03, 2014 5:32 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Metalitz, Steven;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
Hi Steven,<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Even when this assertion is relevant, it may not be persuasive, for a number of reasons. For example, the Whois data reminder obligation applies to the registrant of
record. In the case of a proxy service, the registrant or record is the service, not its customer. If a Whois data reminder is sent to a non-proxy registrant and bounces back, then the RAA requires the registrar to re-verify. But a data reminder sent to
a proxy service will almost never bounce back, and therefore there may be no RAA obligation to re-verify. This is so even if the customer data provided to the service is inaccurate or outdated. In this circumstance it is up to the p/p service accreditation
standards to specify the conditions under which customer data must be re-verified.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br>
This depends on how the service is set up. One could suggest that if such required messages from the registrar do not reach the registrant, it could become the providers' obligation to perform the information requirements on its own. The registrar could then
rely on the provider to perform its duties under the accreditation agreement with ICANN just at it performs its own obligations under the RAA.<br><br>
Please also remember that the registrars obligation only extends to the registrant of record, not to anyone who may use the domain name with permission of that registrant.<br><br>
V.<o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote><br><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.RRPproxy.net</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.RRPproxy.net</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre><br><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br><pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></pre></blockquote><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></span></body></html>