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</head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>I would like to encourage you all to review the whole quote from the Interisle report (see below) which places this specific sentence into context. It merely refers to the difficulty that may exist in verifying this claim independently due to the challenges that accuracy studies in a gTLD environment pose - it does not challenge whether P/P registration information is more accurate or not (as far as I understand). Again, please share the information about the other studies you are referring to so that these can be included as well.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Marika</div><div>
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<!--StartFragment-->
<ul><li><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; "><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;
font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:"?? ??"">Interviewees who
represented providers of WHOIS privacy and proxy services claimed that the
quality of the registrant data they hold for their customers is much better
than for public WHOIS services in general. This seems credible because those
providers tend to have a direct business relationship with their customers.
However it is doubtful if these claims could be independently audited or
verified. Assessing the accuracy of a representative sample of public WHOIS
data is already very difficult. It would be far harder to do so for a
representative sample of data protected by WHOIS privacy and proxy services. In
its 2010 study of WHOIS data accuracy, NORC was able to assess the accuracy of
privacy-registered domain information, but was not able to do the same for
proxy-registered domains.</span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></b></span></li></ul>
<!--EndFragment--></div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Kathy Kleiman <<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Wednesday 5 March 2014 14:47<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2<br></div><div><br></div><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Marika and All,<br>
I think the quote remains misleading in its context and placement. I recommend we a) delete it or b) clarify it and place it in context with explanatory text. For the bottom line is that regardless of the study drafters' personal opinions (and it is an opinion
-- not what they were asked to study or prove in their study), it's wrong. Studies have been done; results have been found. If you protect people's/organization's privacy, the data they provide is more accurate. That's true of ccTLDs and gTLDs!<br><br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br><br><br><br>
So, more proposed edits to come!:<br></div><blockquote cite="mid:CF3CAD7B.2EE34%25marika.konings@icann.org" type="cite"><div>To further clarify, the quote in Kathy's email ('it is doubtful if these claims could be independently audited or verified') is a direct quote from the Interisle Study. It may be important to distinguish here between a <u>ccTLD</u> study and a <u>gTLD</u> study
of P/P registrations. The Nominet opt-out programme is managed by Nominet and has specific eligibility requirements, this makes it presumably easier to 1) get access to the underlying data and 2) verify whether the data is accurate or not, which does not seem
to have been the case for studies that have focused on accuracy of gTLD registration data (also presumably because without an accreditation program it is even hard to identify whether or not the researcher dealing with a P/P service as well as getting access
to the underlying customer data). </div><div><br></div><div>However, as said before, if you have any additional data or studies that are relevant to this question, please share these so that they can be added to the template.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Marika</div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
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BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Marika Konings <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:marika.konings@icann.org">marika.konings@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday 4 March 2014 16:07<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2<br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="auto"><div>All, please note that the information in the background section are all direct quotes from the Whois studies, Whois Review Team report or other studies. If you have any other studies/references that would be helpful to include, please share these with
the list and I will be happy to add these to the document.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Marika</div><div><br>
On 4 mrt. 2014, at 15:49, "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">+1 to Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I recall seeing multiple studies stating exactly the same thing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If you respect privacy then people will provide better quality data
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">It’s logical and obvious<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Hosting & Colocation, Domains<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.blacknight.co/">http://www.blacknight.co/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://blog.blacknight.com/">http://blog.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.technology.ie">http://www.technology.ie</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Locall: 1850 929 929<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Twitter:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://twitter.com/mneylon">http://twitter.com/mneylon</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; " lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext; " lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 4, 2014 1:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> Marika Konings; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Marika, Tx you for checking with Lesley! But the results of that study
<b>were </b>shared with the Whois Review Team, so the idea that "it is doubtful if these claims could be independently audited or verified" is not true. It has been checked - in this field and many others. People have less incentive to mislead when they know
their interests (including privacy) are protected. <br><br>
I'm happy to work with you on finding additional studies, and summaries of studies, but the opinion in the paper does need to be updated or removed.
<br><br>
Tx,<br>
Kathy<br><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> </span> :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">Kathy, on the Nominet study, please note the information in the updated template for Cat B question 2 that was circulated last week. (see attached). I reached out to Lesley Cowley last week and she informed me that unfortunately the study
is not publicly available. However, should there be any specific questions in relation to the data on opt-out, she would be do her best to try and assist.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Marika<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Kathy Kleiman <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday 4 March 2014 14:23<br><b>To: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">What Volker writes below makes sense to me, All. Provided the agreed upon 2013 RAA review of data has been done by someone, I don't see why we should duplicate it. The scope of our WG is p/p providers affiliated with registrars -- so coordination
of the review of the data, per the ICANN rules, in conjunction with the Registrar makes perfect sense to me.<br><br>
As does a "no-privacy penalty." What we have found (Nominet and others -- BTW no one on staff reached out to me to help dig out this study, can we do that this week?) is that when people know their data is private and protected, it is more accurate. That makes
sense and complies with government advice from all corners. Even the US Federal Trade Commission says not to give out your name and phone number in a way that is open and unprotected!
<br><br>
So I think we are already headed towards more accurate data... <br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br>
:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Steven,<br><br>
if we can limit that obligation to those cases where no validation of the underlying data has been performed by the registrar of record, we might be getting somewhere. An independent obligation that duplicates work already done will help no one and confuse
many.<br><br>
Volker<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Am 03.03.2014 19:51, schrieb Metalitz, Steven:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thanks Volker. It is precisely because</span> “<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">the
registrars obligation only extends to the registrant of record, not to anyone who may use the domain name with permission of that registrant,” that there should be an independent obligation on the part of the p/p service provider to validate its customer’s
contact information. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Steve.<br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">
Volker Greimann [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 03, 2014 5:32 AM<br><b>To:</b> Metalitz, Steven; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Steven,<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Even when this assertion
is relevant, it may not be persuasive, for a number of reasons. For example, the Whois data reminder obligation applies to the registrant of record. In the case of a proxy service, the registrant or record is the service, not its customer. If a Whois data
reminder is sent to a non-proxy registrant and bounces back, then the RAA requires the registrar to re-verify. But a data reminder sent to a proxy service will almost never bounce back, and therefore there may be no RAA obligation to re-verify. This is
so even if the customer data provided to the service is inaccurate or outdated. In this circumstance it is up to the p/p service accreditation standards to specify the conditions under which customer data must be re-verified.
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
This depends on how the service is set up. One could suggest that if such required messages from the registrar do not reach the registrant, it could become the providers' obligation to perform the information requirements on its own. The registrar could then
rely on the provider to perform its duties under the accreditation agreement with ICANN just at it performs its own obligations under the RAA.<br><br>
Please also remember that the registrars obligation only extends to the registrant of record, not to anyone who may use the domain name with permission of that registrant.<br><br>
V.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. 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