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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Marika and All,<br>
I think the quote remains misleading in its context and placement.
I recommend we a) delete it or b) clarify it and place it in
context with explanatory text. For the bottom line is that
regardless of the study drafters' personal opinions (and it is an
opinion -- not what they were asked to study or prove in their
study), it's wrong. Studies have been done; results have been
found. If you protect people's/organization's privacy, the data
they provide is more accurate. That's true of ccTLDs and gTLDs!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
So, more proposed edits to come!:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CF3CAD7B.2EE34%25marika.konings@icann.org"
type="cite">
<div>To further clarify, the quote in Kathy's email ('it is
doubtful if these claims could be independently audited or
verified') is a direct quote from the Interisle Study. It may be
important to distinguish here between a <u>ccTLD</u> study and
a <u>gTLD</u> study of P/P registrations. The Nominet opt-out
programme is managed by Nominet and has specific eligibility
requirements, this makes it presumably easier to 1) get access
to the underlying data and 2) verify whether the data is
accurate or not, which does not seem to have been the case for
studies that have focused on accuracy of gTLD registration data
(also presumably because without an accreditation program it is
even hard to identify whether or not the researcher dealing with
a P/P service as well as getting access to the underlying
customer data). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, as said before, if you have any additional data or
studies that are relevant to this question, please share these
so that they can be added to the template.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marika</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt;
text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
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0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;
BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span
style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Marika Konings <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:marika.konings@icann.org">marika.konings@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Tuesday 4 March
2014 16:07<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Michele Neylon -
Blacknight <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re:
[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B,
questions 1 and 2<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div dir="auto">
<div>All, please note that the information in the background
section are all direct quotes from the Whois studies,
Whois Review Team report or other studies. If you have any
other studies/references that would be helpful to include,
please share these with the list and I will be happy to
add these to the document.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marika</div>
<div><br>
On 4 mrt. 2014, at 15:49, "Michele Neylon - Blacknight"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">+1 to Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">I recall seeing multiple studies
stating exactly the same thing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">If you respect privacy then people
will provide better quality data
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">It’s logical and obvious<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Hosting &
Colocation, Domains<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.blacknight.co/">http://www.blacknight.co/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blog.blacknight.com/">http://blog.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.technology.ie">http://www.technology.ie</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59
9183072<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Locall: 1850 929 929<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59
9183090<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811
763<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Twitter: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/mneylon">http://twitter.com/mneylon</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Blacknight Internet
Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland
Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: windowtext; " lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: windowtext; " lang="EN-US">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 4, 2014 1:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marika Konings; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For
review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1
and 2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marika, Tx you for checking
with Lesley! But the results of that study
<b>were </b>shared with the Whois Review Team, so
the idea that "it is doubtful if these claims
could be independently audited or verified" is not
true. It has been checked - in this field and
many others. People have less incentive to mislead
when they know their interests (including privacy)
are protected. <br>
<br>
I'm happy to work with you on finding additional
studies, and summaries of studies, but the opinion
in the paper does need to be updated or removed.
<br>
<br>
Tx,<br>
Kathy<br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; "> </span> :<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kathy, on the Nominet study,
please note the information in the updated
template for Cat B question 2 that was
circulated last week. (see attached). I reached
out to Lesley Cowley last week and she informed
me that unfortunately the study is not publicly
available. However, should there be any specific
questions in relation to the data on opt-out,
she would be do her best to try and assist.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marika<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Kathy
Kleiman <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday 4 March 2014 14:23<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For
review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1
and 2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What Volker writes below
makes sense to me, All. Provided the agreed
upon 2013 RAA review of data has been done
by someone, I don't see why we should
duplicate it. The scope of our WG is p/p
providers affiliated with registrars -- so
coordination of the review of the data, per
the ICANN rules, in conjunction with the
Registrar makes perfect sense to me.<br>
<br>
As does a "no-privacy penalty." What we have
found (Nominet and others -- BTW no one on
staff reached out to me to help dig out this
study, can we do that this week?) is that
when people know their data is private and
protected, it is more accurate. That makes
sense and complies with government advice
from all corners. Even the US Federal Trade
Commission says not to give out your name
and phone number in a way that is open and
unprotected!
<br>
<br>
So I think we are already headed towards
more accurate data... <br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br>
:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Steven,<br>
<br>
if we can limit that obligation to those
cases where no validation of the underlying
data has been performed by the registrar of
record, we might be getting somewhere. An
independent obligation that duplicates work
already done will help no one and confuse
many.<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 03.03.2014 19:51,
schrieb Metalitz, Steven:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
">Thanks Volker. It is precisely
because</span> “<span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
">the registrars obligation only extends
to the registrant of record, not to
anyone who may use the domain name with
permission of that registrant,” that
there should be an independent
obligation on the part of the p/p
service provider to validate its
customer’s contact information.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
">Steve.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;
color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color:
windowtext; "> Volker Greimann [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 03, 2014
5:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Metalitz, Steven; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review -
updated templates Cat B, questions 1
and 2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Steven,<span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125); "><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); ">Even when this assertion
is relevant, it may not be persuasive,
for a number of reasons. For example,
the Whois data reminder obligation
applies to the registrant of record.
In the case of a proxy service, the
registrant or record is the service,
not its customer. If a Whois data
reminder is sent to a non-proxy
registrant and bounces back, then the
RAA requires the registrar to
re-verify. But a data reminder sent
to a proxy service will almost never
bounce back, and therefore there may
be no RAA obligation to re-verify.
This is so even if the customer data
provided to the service is inaccurate
or outdated. In this circumstance it
is up to the p/p service accreditation
standards to specify the conditions
under which customer data must be
re-verified.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
This depends on how the service is set up.
One could suggest that if such required
messages from the registrar do not reach
the registrant, it could become the
providers' obligation to perform the
information requirements on its own. The
registrar could then rely on the provider
to perform its duties under the
accreditation agreement with ICANN just at
it performs its own obligations under the
RAA.<br>
<br>
Please also remember that the registrars
obligation only extends to the registrant
of record, not to anyone who may use the
domain name with permission of that
registrant.<br>
<br>
V.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
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