<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">+1 Volker. I thought we had already made these points, and I wonder how long we as a working group can just go back and forth on this. I cannot of course accuse anyone else of being unduly stubborn, since nothing but a serious long range study of the impact on ID theft whose findings contradict my previous experience, will convince me that increasing accuracy in the WHOIS is not going to drive ID theft. <div>cheers Stephanie Perrin<br><div><div>On Mar 18, 2014, at 6:01 AM, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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As you know, accurate whois for abusive domain names equals stolen
whois data. Just look at the whois of some of the domains you have
reported in the past, I am sure that you will notice that in most
cases, the registrant details are 100% accurate, just not those of
the actual registrant. <br>
<br>
If you want to promote identity theft further, this is the ticket...<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.03.2014 22:19, schrieb John
Horton:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CADW+eutLDaq7bgv-g3FBMsbGz+trc556ypT1CD9jqsY9Qe_tvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:#073763">We
also concur with those points. </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#073763" face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif">John Horton<br>
President, LegitScript</font>
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<br>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:17 PM, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:GBarnett@sgbdc.com">GBarnett@sgbdc.com</a>
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:GBarnett@sgbdc.com" target="_blank">GBarnett@sgbdc.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">As Val mentioned, I
agree with Todd’s and Steve’s points, and those
noted in Val’s email.</span></p><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Griffin</span></p><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Griffin M. Barnett</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Silverberg, Goldman
& Bikoff, LLP</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">1101 30<sup>th</sup>
Street NW</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Suite 120</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Washington, DC 20007</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28202%29%20944-3307" value="+12029443307" target="_blank">(202)
944-3307</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gbarnett@sgbdc.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">gbarnett@sgbdc.com</span></a></span></p><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Valeriya Sherman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 17, 2014 4:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Metalitz, Steven; 'Williams, Todd';
Marika Konings; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span></p>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For your
review - updated template Cat B - question 2</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5"><div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">I, Jim Bikoff,
David Heasley, and Griffin Barnett agree with
Todd's assessment:
</span></p>
<div><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Contact
information that is ultimately revealed is
valuable only if it is accurate. </span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">The
validation/verification requirements should
be consistent with the 2013 RAA
requirements, but should go above and beyond
those requirements to
ensure the accuracy of contact
information. </span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Registrars
already send an annual Whois Data Reminder
Policy notification to registrants,
reminding them to provide accurate and
up-to-date information. </span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Similarly, the
privacy/proxy customer's contact information
should be verified upon initial registration
of the domain name (either by the registrar
or the Privacy/Proxy Service Provider) and
periodically thereafter by automated annual
email re-verification notifications that
require an affirmative response by the P/P
customer. Absence of a response would
trigger a follow-up, reminding the
privacy/proxy customer to provide accurate
and up-to-date information. </span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""><br>
Regards,</span></p>
<div><div><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">Valeriya
Sherman<br>
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff,
L.L.P.<br>
1101 30th Street, N.W.<br>
Suite 120<br>
Washington, D.C. 20007<br>
Tel <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:202.944.2330" value="+12029442330" target="_blank">202.944.2330</a><br>
Cell <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303.589.7477" value="+13035897477" target="_blank">303.589.7477</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vsherman@law.gwu.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">vsherman@sgbdc.com</span></a></span><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
on behalf of Metalitz, Steven [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:met@msk.com" target="_blank">met@msk.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 17, 2014 6:13
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Williams, Todd'; Marika
Konings; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg]
For your review - updated template Cat B -
question 2</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif""></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
agree with Todd’s characterization of
the status of this discussion, and that
the questions he highlights are still
open.
</span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Another
aspect of the second question below is
how the p/p service provider should
handle situations in which the contact
information supplied by the customer
cannot be verified. In the parallel
situation involving non-proxy
registrations, the RAA specification
calls either for suspension of the
registration, or “manual verification,”
which is not defined. How should this
apply in the p/p service scenario?
</span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Steve
Metalitz </span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Williams, Todd<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 14, 2014
4:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marika Konings; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For your review
- updated template Cat B - question
2</span><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><span style=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks
Marika. I missed part of the call on
Tuesday where this may have been
discussed, but I don’t see how the draft
preliminary recommendation follows from
the attached Word document, insofar as
it concludes that p/p customer data
should be validated and verified in a
manner consistent with the requirements
outlined in the 2013 RAA. I thought the
current posture was that the WG has
basically agreed to the 2013 RAA
requirements as a floor, but that there
was not yet agreement on: 1) whether
validation/verification requirements
should go beyond the 2013 RAA; and 2) if
so, how.</span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">On
the first question (2013 RAA vs.
“more”), it appears that more of the
responses in the attached argue for
“more” than not. That also seems to
have been an open topic in our email
threads (see attached). Just to
reiterate from that thread, the basic
argument on the “more” side (which I
agree with) is that in order to
partially offset the delay that will
inevitably occur when accessing p/p
data, the “more” should consist of
whatever reasonable
validation/verification steps can be
taken to increase the likelihood that
the information ultimately obtained will
be accurate enough to facilitate
contact. I suppose that if we
ultimately settle on a “reveal”
procedure that is essentially
instantaneous in certain cases (once we
get to discussing “reveal” procedures),
that may mitigate this concern. But
absent assurances on that point, I would
think we need to address it.</span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">On
the second question: the attached
appears to include multiple proposals as
to what may or may not ultimately
comprise the “more” (<i>e.g.</i>, email
<u>and</u> phone vs. or; periodic/annual
re-verification vs. re-verification with
information suggesting the contact
information is incorrect; etc.). Have
we debated the relative merits of
those? Are some more likely to be
effective than others? I have my
thoughts, but I’m curious to hear what
everybody else thinks.</span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks
all.</span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Todd.
</span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marika Konings<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 13,
2014 7:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg]
For your review - updated template
Cat B - question 2</span><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><span style=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dear
All,</span><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Following
our call earlier this week, please
find attached the updated template for
Category B – question 2. To facilitate
your review, I've posted below the
draft preliminary recommendation in
which we've aimed to capture the
conversation to date taking into
account the language of the Whois
Accuracy Specification Program of the
2013 RAA. If you are of the view that
this does not accurately capture the
WG's view to date and/or have specific
suggestions for changes / edits,
please share those with the mailing
list. Also, if there are any other
issues that need to be addressed in
relation to this question and/or the
preliminary recommendation, please
share those as well.</span><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Best
regards,</span><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Marika</span><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Draft
Preliminary Recommendation –
Category B – question 2 (Should
ICANN-accredited privacy/proxy
service providers be required to
conduct periodic checks to ensure
accuracy of customer contact
information; and if so, how?)</span></b><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
<div><div><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The
WG recommends that proxy and privacy
customer data be validated and
verified in a manner consistent with
the requirements outlined in Whois
Accuracy Specification Program of the
2013 RAA. The WG furthermore agrees
that in the cases where validation and
verification of the P/P customer data
was carried out by the registrar,
reverification by the P/P service of
the same, identical, information
should not be required. </span><span style=""></span></p><div><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><span style=""></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Similar
to ICANN’s Whois Data Reminder Policy
(<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/consensus-policies/wdrp" target="_blank">http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/consensus-policies/wdrp</a>),
the P/P provider should be required to
inform the P/P customer annually of
his/her requirement to provide
accurate and up to date contact
information to the P/P provider. If
the P/P provider has any information
suggesting that the P/P customer
information is incorrect (such as P/P
service receiving a bounced email
notification or non-delivery
notification message in connection
with compliance with data reminder
notices or otherwise) for any P/P
customer, the P/P provider must verify
or re-verify, as applicable, the email
address(es). If, within fifteen (15)
calendar days after receiving any such
information, P/P service does not
receive an affirmative response from
the P/P customer providing the
required verification, the P/P service
shall verify the applicable contact
information manually. </span><span style=""></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
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