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I think there are four of us EWGers on this group....me, Susan,
Carlton and Michele. Sorry if I missed anyone. <br>
I believe the recommendations that went into the EWG ought not to be
taken as gospel, after all many of the privacy features that make
them potentially acceptable are far from implemented. It is also
far from clear what would be in the RDS record, and how public
"public" is. If all law firms got everything they wanted for a
legal process behind the so-called gate, this discussion we are
having would be moot, according to my reading of the text at least.
<br>
Susan is the principle author of those proxy recommendations and
therefore is the authority.<br>
Cheers Stephanie<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14-08-18 2:52 PM, Don Blumenthal
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:D017C2A6.65664%25dblumenthal@pir.org"
type="cite">
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<div>I should have read everything in the thread before
responding. I see your point, Volker. However, I would be more
inclined to agree if we were looking at something that it’s
reasonable to expect will happen. Not to insult any of our dual
PPSAI/EWG members, but I don’t think that can be said about any
of the EWG recommendations now. It’s too early in its review
process. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I said before, our work is complicated enough as it is. I
suggest dealing with the world we have now allowing for
reasonably certain new developments. Don’t ask me what they
might be.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Don</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Volker Greimann
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, August
18, 2014 at 2:28 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Steven Metalitz
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:met@msk.com">met@msk.com</a>>,
Valeriya Sherman <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:VSherman@sgbdc.com">VSherman@sgbdc.com</a>>,
"Williams, Todd" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Todd.Williams@turner.com">Todd.Williams@turner.com</a>>,
PPSAI <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Hi Steven,<br>
<br>
I disagree, because I am a strong believer in "building for
the future". I would hope that we can come up with policy
recommendations that will not be made obsolete in a few
years time but rather form a basis for future
considerations. Therefore suggesting policy that would work
with already proposed future regimes is not only helpful,
but rather strongly advisable.<br>
<br>
I also see a very concrete harm in being required to receive
unsolicited communications that are like spam to me. Having
to claer out spam and unsolicited communications ot of my
personal work mailbox takes at least ten minutes out of each
workday and that is after the spam-filters have worked their
magic. I therefore understand anyone who desired that
unwanted communications should be kept to a minimum.
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 18.08.2014 20:21, schrieb
Metalitz, Steven:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:E5B4A2ED43DFAE4F9E710FA54FEF8F6229673679@LAEX02.MSK.local"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Our job is to recommend accreditation
standards for today’s world, not for what may be the
case if/when EWG recommendations are implemented.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">The “harm” inflicted by having something
appear in one’s mailbox needs to be kept in
context.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color:
windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: windowtext;"> Volker Greimann
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 18, 2014 2:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Metalitz, Steven; Valeriya Sherman;
Williams, Todd; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal
contactability<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi
Steve,<br>
<br>
this is currently the case, but I believe one of the
suggestions of the EWG was that the country of the
registrants residency be a field that is always
published.
<br>
<br>
An I maybe misphrased the "required to read". I meant
it to mean "to have appear in his mailbox".<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 18.08.2014 20:05, schrieb
Metalitz, Steven:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">By definition, the jurisdiction of the
registrant (p/p service customer) is generally
unknown to the third party at the time the relay
request for the legal claim is made.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">A registrant is definitely better off
knowing about a “foreign” legal claim. That is a
separate question from whether a foreign court can
claim jurisdiction over the registrant for that
claim – which is often a very complicated question
that is by no means limited to where the
registrant is physically present. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);">Finally, please, no one is “required to
read” anything that is relayed to them. I think
that is common ground that was established much
earlier in our discussion. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;
color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: windowtext;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 18, 2014 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Valeriya Sherman; Williams, Todd; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg]
Proposal contactability</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi
Valeriya,<br>
<br>
just as a counterpoint, I do not believe it should
be "any jurisdiction". <br>
I would accept jurisdiction of the registrant, the
service provider and (if affiliated) the registrar,
but thats where it stops. Why should a registrant
based in Dubai be required to be bothered by a US
legal instrument that is not legally binding on him?
Why should a US registrant be required to read a
Saudi legal complaint? <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 18.08.2014 19:03, schrieb
Valeriya Sherman:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Volker,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">A "legal communication"
is certainly something we would have to
carefully define as a group, but as a
starting point, I would define it as any
communication by an individual or entity
that asserts a problem connected to
the ownership or use of a domain name by the
beneficial registrant based on <u>and</u> citing
the laws of any jurisdiction. The
communication need not threaten a lawsuit,
or be made by a law firm to constitute a
"legal communication." The
communication would be submitted via the
accepted, to-be-determined means of
communication. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Val<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto">Valeriya
Sherman<br>
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff,
L.L.P.<br>
1101 30th Street, N.W.<br>
Suite 120<br>
Washington, D.C. 20007<br>
Tel 202.944.3300<br>
Cell 303.589.7477<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vsherman@law.gwu.edu"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#1155CC">vsherman@sgbdc.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</div>
<div id="divRpF726494">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;"> Volker Greimann [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 18, 2014 10:08
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Valeriya Sherman; Williams,
Todd; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg]
Proposal contactability</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Valeriya, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another narrower
approach would be to ensure that <u>all</u> communications
that contain legal complaints are
relayed without exception. To be clear,
under this approach, there would be no
content evaluation, other than to
determine that any given communication
is or contains a legal complaint. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">What is a legal
communication though? Does it have to
include a threat of a law suit? Does it have
to include formal legal representation by a
law firm?
<br>
Also, this should be limited to the means of
communication offered by the service
provider, i.e. if postal relay is not
offered, legal communications by postal mail
would face the same fate as spam, i.e. the
bin...<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
volker<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div>
</div>
</span>
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Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a></pre>
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